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Maria al-Qibtiyya, Taalibah
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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 07:28
(salaam)

Being the followers of different sects and theological groups most of the Muslims hate their fellow Muslims even on trivial issues.

Apparently laymen (many of us) have pawned their reasoning-power in their scholars' hands.
Their differences are so deeply rooted that they turn their eyes from facts. When any Quranic ayat or hadis corroborates the sayings or doings of other Muslims, even then they (many of us) try to seek the ways not to follow the authentic proofs.

This issue is discussed sarcastically on non Muslim forums. They make fun of us as well as our religion. We can deny all their logic and reasoning but this fact can't be rejected that most of us are involved in pulling the legs of other Muslims/groups who've different approach in disputed-issues while discussing the theological differences. Many scholars don't miss to criticize their rivals (?) in their lectures, articles or books. And their followers trust them passionately.

Non Muslims perspicuously have big differences in tenets and theories though, but they don't discuss their differences on forums. I never found them bashing one another because of their religious differences. Are they more balanced than us from this aspect?

Is it a part of conspiracy against this ummah? I've doubts about some of the scholars whether or not they're agents of 'others'. I can't assert though but it's definite that they're directly or indirectly supporting the anti Islamic forces that exert to create a big rift in Ummah in order to impoverish and weaken us.


Academic-Difference in opinions isn't bad in itself; but spreading abhorrence which separates the hearts of muslims is abominable and reprehensible.

Apathetic attitude of ignorant people is growing at large due to shenanigans of their scholars.

How long will this slandering-ceremony be continued?

When will this harmful practice be curbed?

Has the time not yet come of racking our brains to find the amicable solution on mutual basis?

At least the laity should be taught by genuine savants to take Laissez faire as their obligatory duty to ameliorate the ties of brotherhood.

I hope for the best results.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 09:26
Agreed sir...our Uluma used to keep their difference limited to 'academic circles' only,it is the spread of information which played the havoc.Difference of opinion per se is a healthy sign and should be perceived as such,it becomes a problem when it leads to chaos in Aqaed and a split in Umma.The damage is already done...we must concentrate on 'damage control measures' now.

Two factors,when they become associated with difference of opinion,make it a lethal combination :

a) Prejudice : "Haqq is limited only to my sect,every one else is batil"

b) Association of 'militancy' with Aqaed...with consequent tendencies to curb all differing opinions by use of force.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 10:09
Wa 'alaykumus salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu

Non Muslims always mock Islam and Muslims' culture. They come up with new topics on a daily basis and paint every Muslim with the same brush. You've married a girl below 18 years- Muslims are paedophile. I've married two women- Muslims are indecent. He has insisted his daughter to wear Hijab- Muslims are oppressors......

Remember that non Muslims can't distinguish between groups within and out of fold of Islam. They take Shi'ites, Qadianis, grave worshippers, Hadith rejectors etc among Muslims. So while refuting them, non Muslims take it merely as conflict between two groups.

It's true that we dispute over trivial issues while not looking at bigger problems. We definitely should work on it. But rest assured, no matter how much caution you adopt, there will be always slanders and mockery from Kuffar's side.

The main reason Kuffar are united despite their differences among tenets is- they don't care about religion. They manipulated holy scriptures and now they are completely ignoring these. On the contrary our apparent disputes prove that we adore our religion. We always strive to preserve the real teachings and this is the reason we debate, we refute, we use harsh words against them who try to degrade Islam by any mean.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 10:17
Anonymous wrote:
Agreed sir...our Uluma used to keep their difference limited to 'academic circles' only,it is the spread of information which played the havoc.Difference of opinion per se is a healthy sign and should be perceived as such,it becomes a problem when it leads to chaos in Aqaed and a split in Umma.The damage is already done...we must concentrate on 'damage control measures' now.

Two factors,when they become associated with difference of opinion,make it a lethal combination :

a) Prejudice : "Haqq is limited only to my sect,every one else is batil"

b) Association of 'militancy' with Aqaed...with consequent tendencies to curb all differing opinions by use of force.[/quote]

Please clarify what you've meant by this following line:

[quote]b) Association of 'militancy' with Aqaed...with consequent tendencies to curb all differing opinions by use of force.


However I do agree with rest of the points you made.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 13:31

The three worst offenders of our time are:

  1. Ahl-e-Hadeeth
  2. Kibar worshipping Madkhalees
  3. Hazrat worshipping Deobandees

All 3 of these groups have pretty much the same characteristics and modus operandi and all 3 have been pretty much shunned by the Muslim Ummah.

All 3 continue to believe that because they are so “highly guided” that others are unable to grasp the nuisances of their group.

Contrast these 3 to “Tableeghi Jamaat” whom Allah (SWT) has given acceptance in our time and their rank and file have a totally different attitude, however as you climb higher you see the same “Akabir worshipping” in them and that’s why you see thousands of new faces with the vast majority fizzling out in a the next few years. In corporate terms Tableeghi Jamaat has a very high turn over.

There is a difference between appreciating, valuing and aspiring to our elders and merely paying "lip Service" and example is that Hazrat (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) was extremely meticulous about answering and replying to posts. Test the genuine “following our Akabir” ideology of majority of Deobandi Institutes and Ulama by trying to communicate.

May Allah (SWT) give long life to Shaykh (Mufti) A. S. Desai (HA) [Ameen] who appears to be one of the only ones in his Senior age who follows Akabir instead of just paying "lip Service"

 

 

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 18:48
"May Allah (SWT) give long life to Shaykh (Mufti) A. S. Desai (HA) [Ameen] who appears to be one of the only ones in his Senior age who follows Akabir instead of just paying "lip Service""

Mufti AS Desia seems to always reply to every email/letter he receives ...thats one amazing quality. all the times ive emailed him he's replied back every time...mostly within about a week or so.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 19:02
Some minds are etched with monomania of anti Deobandi rants. Instead of considering the theme of the thread they harp on the same strings to nettle the people by derailing the topic.

Loving the akabirin rh.a isn't worshipping (shirk), rather it's praiseworthy. I love my akabirin rh.a because of this hadis ''Allhumma inni as'aluka hubbka wa hubba man yuhibbuka''

I respect all the ulama even of other groups. I don't start thread to attack on them but if any sullen layman unnecessarily initiate to sully the image of my ulama I reciprocate with identical repercussion. I don't like it though.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 21:37
Arfatzafar wrote:
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Agreed brother. Why wouldn't someone love Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA)? And nobody mentioned Shirk..."Hazrat Worship" is a term and unless you are a Salafi you don't take it literally i.e. there is no "Hazrat" sitting on a mimbar and Deobandees prostrating to him ( at least not yet) but prostration does occurred with Nazim Haqqani (not Deobandi of course).




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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 21:53
Well I can assure you the differences won't be going away any time sooner, in fact as the time nears to the end of time these differences and gaps will widen and get bigger and bigger, its happening now in many many circles, your either with us or your against us, no more hiding, the dividing lines are being set and are clear as ever.

Some will stand for the Haqq, some for the Batil, some for hikmah, these are confusing times where one needs to be very very careful, the only safe way of surviving is sticking to a Jama'ah and checking and verifying everything if its in accordance with Quran or Sunnah or not.

No one is infallible.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 13:42

Jinn wrote:
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If you ask Ahl-e-Hadeeth, (Hazrat worshipping) Deobandees, (Kibar worshipping) Madkhalees they all agree with the principle that No one is infallible

Now apply this principle and try to most respectfully disagree with top Ulama of any of these groups.

  1. First your capacity to disagree will be challenged. Who are you? My Hazrat has taught for 25 years? How many years have you taught?
  2. Then your private life will be brought in
  3. Once (in their mind) you are dismantled by 1 & 2 then you will be abused
  4. 1, 2 & 3 will be propagated en masse

In most cases the Academic issues are hardly discussed. If they believe in this principle of No one is infallible then ask them can you share with me where do you think they have made mistakes and where are they discussed.

The argument they give is that people's trust in Ulama will be shaken if their mistakes or "individual opinions" are discussed or highlighted.

Contrast this with classical Islamic Scholarship and you find differences (mistakes, rebuttals) etc discussed on almost every page when you study (Shaykhul-Hadeeth (Maulana) Zakariyya Kandhalwi (RA)

We disagree with Imam Shafae (RA) on his position about saying Ameen (loudly) and YET we love him to death! So equally one can disagree with Shaykh (Mufti) A. S. Desai (HA) and still love him to death, there is no problem with this approach.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 13:54
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I agree with you akhii and that's why it's necesarry that we go back to the texts( the Quran and Sunnah) in each and everything, confusing times we live in today and they will only be getting more and more confusing. If we don't hold on to that rope then Allah forbid what might/could happen.






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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 14:12

Jinn wrote:
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Alhumdolillah, I am able to discuss many things (freely) with Ulama and Mashaykh and while speaking with one Shaykh (HA) I said:

Rightly or wrongly, we no longer live in rural India where the word of an Alim is taken as Gospel and merely submitted. Today’s youth will google it and within seconds come to know 3-4 differences on what you say from the mimbar. A university student is taught from Nursery to critique everyone and he/she (unintentionally) does it to even his/her Shaykh and no longer takes matters on face value. We are confronted with this sort of mindset. Those who take the word of their Shaykh (Maulana) and merely run with it are in the minority and those who critique it are the majority. Our Ulama are not trained for this in the Darul-ulooms, they are trained to “impart a verdict” and that’s about it so there is a conflict and our Ulama are trained to shun (or turn away) from those who question as Salafees or Ghair-Muqallids when the person merely is trying to make sense out of the ruling! Masha'Allah Shaykh (HA) listened to me patiently and did agree.

Last week I asked my 8 year old to move “trash bin” back into the house so he moved one and left the other one, when I asked him why he didn’t move the 2nd one he merely said you didn’t ask me to move the other one!  There is no rebellion in his action, merely application of logic at his age and mental state. He was asked to do something so he carried it out and left what he wasn't asked.

So today youngsters are trained to be critical without having the necessary skills to be critical and if we merely abandon them (or censor) them then Madkhalees will pounce on them and that is my single pet-peeve with Deobandee...if you don’t take the time to take care of your people (someone else will).

10+ years ago that was our thought process with www.central-mosque.com and what we discussed with Shaykh (Maulana) Abdur-Raheem Limbada (HA), Shaykh Riyadhul-Haq (HA) and others.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 16:08
One can only be critical in his own field of knowledge...not every field of knowledge.If a doctor criticises the construction plan of a building,and thinks that an engineer should take him seriously....he is a fool; Similarly an engineer taking a doctor to task for his surgery is not supposed to be a wise person.This must also be part of our training to 'respect the expertise' of others or it will be 'unscientific' to say the least.

Take any text book of Medicine,it is mostly written in 'easy to understand ' English language.Take som time to learn the terminologies and one can finish the book in no time,'does it make you a doctor ? NO.Same is the case with every speciality.It takes years to develop the necessary background skills and instinct to master a subject.

Same goes for 'Deeni Uloom'.Our scholars work for minimum 8 years to develop those necessary skills and then keep adding upon it for the rest of their life.One should not be shocked if one,s opinion is challenged on the grounds that 'our Hazrat spent 25 years teaching this subject,who are you ?"...it is a valid and logical response to an 'illiterate' person who is trying to interfere in a very specialised subject without any qualifications.

I don,t know why we are taking Din as a punching bag,where every one,irrespective of whether qualified or not,is ready to give an opinion....and not only this,some people think 'they know better than scholars' and can advise them on various issues ....Inna lillah...
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 16:09
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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This single pet peeve with deobandis isn't confined to you only but all the anti deobandi groups have this complaint that why their followers defend them when they're wrong (?), yours isn't an exceptional case, believe me.

Once and for all this issue should be settled now.

Your requested to open up the secret file which contains the names of those ulama e deoband who're black listed in your eyes.

Please enlighten us with the bunch of crooks.

If your forte is perfect, InshAllah I'll seek another nest for shelter.

I hope that hide and seek no longer will be seen on this forum.

Yes, one more thing-
to have the help of Mr Google people of rural India can contact HIM from their home town, but Mr Google isn't our Shaykh. It may be yours.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 16:16
Arfatzafar wrote:
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You have not understood what I have said at all and not for the first time. :)
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