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Marriage without wali

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abu mohammed, Taalibah
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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 15:32
Warning to my dear sisters. You are requested not to contact marriagable individuals as there are a lot of predators online. Marriage is a very serious affair and should always involve the wali. Please be aware and be vigilant. Please advise all sisters accordingly. According to most scholars marriage without the guardian's permission is null and void though according to a hanafi position it is acceptable though in most cases parents can annul the marriage on the basis of compatibility.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 15:38
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According to most scholars marriage without the guardian's permission is null and void though according to a hanafi position it is acceptable


Only acceptable if the conditions are met, so don't fall into the trap of confusion.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 15:43
abu mohammed wrote:
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Yes, this is the problem. Conditions are hardly ever met. At the end of the day it is the girl that mostly suffers. I dealt with a case where a girl (16) and man (30) met on a forum. Same old bakwaas stuff happened and we see the same situation repeat itself again and again. Girls fall for any shababi, kebabi...romance lasts hardly a month after marriage especially if the sister has to deal with a mother in law....
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 15:56

london786 wrote:
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I see Madkhalees misquoting Hanafi Madhab to trap a girl into Nikah. If someone wants to take a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th wife contact the family and be honest. If they reject you for Non-Shariah reasons then contact a Shariah Council to consider the matter and act as the Wali for the girl (if necessary) but don't trap innocent Muslim women in the name of Roman and Hanafi Madhab!

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 15:58
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Girls fall for any shababi, kebabi


Awesome description!
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 17:54
You can portray yourself any way you want online, "oh hes a romeo, so sensitive, so understanding blah blah blah", but the reality is so so different. And in the cases which I personally know this unfortunately comes to light after they've run off, destroyed the harmony of the house, made the family devastated, married the person and then reality kicks home.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 18:36
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 18:42
I personally know of something that happened to people I know recently in the UK and the after affects are still messy, I will see if I can open a edited version without giving it away to much
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 19:10
Even the so-called Islamic "matrimonial" sites are filled with predators and players. Maybe Istikharah first before ANY contact?

And regarding the marriage bandit, the perpetrators even shamed the women victims to make them feel guilty for asking higher mahr saying it's "against Sunnah" or unIslamic etc, that way they can easily marry them off with a really low mahr, i.e. only reciting some Qur'an verses. What a great trial these women have to face --- they are treated like DISPOSABLE goods. May Allah give these evil people what they deserve in the Day of Judgement.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 20:34
Coloratura wrote:
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So true sister, I've heard some terrible experiences from revert sisters. Can't believe how some brothers can behave in such a dishonest and despicable manner...and this isn't even through websites etc.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 00:08
Brothers should also be weary of certain sisters on these matrimonial sites who're quite picky and will just waste much precious of time of practicing brothers. Probably getting on a bit in age and are feeling guilty for not taking marriage seriously when they were younger.

May Allah open our doors.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2015 14:50

Caution:

This article is not to provide justification for our Sisters to get married without the permission and consent of their Wali (guardian). Rather, we advise Sisters who have Wali (guardian) unreasonably preventing them from fulfilling half of their religion to refer the matter to Islamic Scholars or Islamic Shariah councils and let a Mufti or a Scholar from a Shariah council and let them consider the situation and act as Wali (if necessary) and give them in marriage. 


This purpose of this article is demonstrate academically that some leeway in the Hanafi School of thought on the matter of marriage without wali (consent) is not without evidence. Due to the sensitivity of the subject, we advise (again) that although leeway does exist our Sisters should opt to consult Islamic Scholars on the matter and let them rule on their individual circumstances and act as their Wali.

Please proceed to read the evidence of the Hanafi School of thought once you have understood the position and rationale behind this article.  Following are some contacts for our Sisters to consult Islamic Scholars and have the Ulama rule on their individual circumstances and assist (if necessary); at the very least local Imam (or local Mosque) should be consulted. Nikah should be publicised and officially endorsed, please also read out detailed article on marriages.

 

  1. slamic Tarbiyah Academy (UK)
  2. Birmingham Fiqh Council (UK)
  3. Rahmat-e-Alam Foundation (Chicago, USA)
  4. Shariah Board of New York (USA) [redirect through above site)
  5. Fatwa Centre of America (Rhode Island, USA)
  6. Darul Qasim (Chicago, USA)

www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Relationships/wali-conse...

 

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 20th February 2015 14:12
london786 wrote:
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Besides this we (especially the sisters) should be careful anyway. Don't get married to some random stranger. The world is full of shayateen and zaalims.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 4th March 2015 14:53
I know that this thread title is "Marriage without wali" but since we were discussing on-line issues I feel the following article proves a point of precaution. Also shows the reality of some jahil zaalims out there.
Quote:
Ayesha Ali death: Bizarre relationship led to killing
By Rebecca Cafe

In a case that involved fictional spiritual guides, fake online relationships and pretend illnesses, a mother and her former lover have both been found guilty of killing her daughter.
It was a complex and unconventional relationship that led to the death of Ayesha Ali.

The eight-year-old died of a head injury at her home in Romford, east London, last year. She was found dead in her bedroom with more than 50 injuries, including bite marks.

The court heard she was caught in the middle of a dangerous relationship between her mother Polly Chowdhury, who suffered from low self esteem, and Kiki Muddar, who had a narcissistic personality disorder.

Post-mortem examinations revealed Ayesha Ali died as a result of damage to the head from a blow or blows.
The police said on arrival at the flat in Bedwell Court, Chadwell Heath on 29 August paramedics found Ayesha's lifeless body on her bedroom floor and it was obvious that she had been dead for some time.

The pair met as neighbours in Romford in 2007 but their friendship intensified in 2012 when Muddar falsely told Chowdhury she had cancer and needed her help.

Speaking after the trial, Chowdhury's former husband Afsar Ali said: "To me she (Muddar) came across a very evil person.

"From the outset I knew there was something not right about her. She was very sly, she was a control freak - she wanted to control things."

He said he told Chowdhury to avoid her, but instead his ex-wife would see Muddar when he was at work or socialising.

The relationship between Mr Ali and his wife deteriorated and in December 2012, he moved out. Afterwards, Chowdhury prevented him from seeing Ayesha.

In court, Mr Ali said his wife had been the perfect mother to Ayesha until she met Muddar. He told their trial she became unrecognisable to him and it appeared as though she became "possessed".
In 2013 the women and Ayshea moved to Bedwell Court in Chadwell Heath. According to the prosecution, it was here the women started to share a bedroom and Muddar stepped up her manipulation of Chowdhury.

She created a fictional online persona who corresponded with Chowdhury through Facebook and text messages.

This was part of a "sophisticated deception" by Muddar, which included setting up fake Facebook accounts of so-called siblings and cousins, to exert influence over Chowdhury.

The court heard Muddar embarked on the deception in order to facilitate a sexual relationship with Chowdhury. She also persuaded her to touch different parts of her body in order to heal the non-existent cancer.

Muddar also invented a further character called Skyman, a fictional spiritual guide who only communicated via text message. Incredibly, according to the prosecution, Chowdhury appeared to accept what he said in the messages and would try to act in a way to please him.

Some of the messages Muddar sent pretending to be Skyman read: "Your daughter will be destroyed" and "you have no right to ever love or like your evil daughter".

'I'm going to kill her'
The police investigation revealed the extent of the online contact between the women and fictional characters.

It found:

140,000 lines of data from texts, WhatsApp, Viber and emails
40,000 messages on a laptop
1,450 voice recordings from Muddar's phone backed up on a computer
17,000 pages of Facebook messages
Teachers noticed Ayesha's demeanour started to change from April 2013. The psychological abuse ramped up to the extent that Ayesha kept a diary on how she was trying to be good.

She was also ordered by the women to continuously clean and scrub the bathroom, and carry out other household chores as punishment.

In an expletive strewn phonecall in July, Muddar told her friend Hemma that she was going to kill Ayesha, adding she would "drown that witch".

"Seriously I'm going to kill her. I'm going to kill her Hemma and I'm going to go to prison tonight."

Later in the phonecall she said Ayesha was evil and that: "I've never in my life ever, ever wanted anyone dead, never except for her, never."

The physical abuse began in the school summer holidays, the court heard.

Psychologist's view
Kevin Browne, a professor of Forensic Psychology & Child Health, said Muddar had a narcissistic personality disorder and was able to manipulate Chowdhury because she was a vulnerable person with a negative sense of self.

"She [Chowdhury] was putting her needs for love and affection before the needs of her child and she found it in this woman," he said.

"The more dominant individual was a narcissistic person who wouldn't have sympathy for anyone else's point of view, and was only concerned with her own view and ideas and convinced herself that her view was the right one or the reality, no matter what was going on.

"She wouldn't have seen the pain and cruelty to the child; she would only care that the child did what she wanted her to do.

"[The mother] was so preoccupied with the friendship and having virtual relationships that she too would not have seen or understood the pain the child was going through.

"There were two individuals being cruel, with the dominant one encouraging the cruelty probably out of jealousy as she didn't want the attention on the child and instead wanted it all on her."

Ayesha died on either 28 or 29 August 2013 - the exact time is not known because the women did not take her to hospital.

Chowdhury told jurors Muddar had shouted out to her that Ayesha was drowning while having a bath.

"I thought she had tried to drown herself," she said. "We lay her on the floor and I asked Kiki to help because I did not know what to do. Kiki did CPR. I was standing nearby in Ayesha's bedroom."

She went on: "She did not seem herself. She was pretty cold and very stiff and her eyes were not closing properly. I was very distressed. I was crying. I was hugging her. I was crying out for Skyman to help me."

Ayesha's body was found when Muddar called emergency services after she discovered that Chowdhury had tried to kill herself.

Paramedic Laura Ward said she repeatedly asked Muddar if she was concerned about Ayesha to which Muddar replied: "She was a naughty child and mum thought she was possessed by the devil."

When Ms Ward asked her if she was upset about the child, Muddar replied: "My friend is my concern."

'Groomed for sex'
Muddar refused to give evidence at the trial.

The court heard that Chowdhury's first husband was sexually violent towards her and she had had an unhappy childhood during which she had been abused.

She told the jury she had developed feelings of anger and hatred towards her daughter because she was being manipulated by Muddar.

She admitted that after Muddar moved in, they smacked Ayesha and hit her with a wooden spoon, following text message instructions from "Skyman".

Psychiatrist Dr Philip Joseph, who gave evidence for the prosecution, told the court that Chowdhury had admitted to him that she now realised she had been groomed.

"I never realised it at the time," she said.

"I was groomed for sex with her. Everything changed about her when she had sex with me... Skyman was doing us a favour because me and Jimmy were not allowed to see each other.

"It was like his soul in her body - like in the film Ghost."

Dr Joseph said Muddar had admitted lying to Chowdhury about her health, but claimed she had made it up at her suggestion so she could leave her husband.

The prosecution said she was delusional, creating her own reality where she was the star.
What is personality disorder?
When people have distorted thoughts, feelings and behaviour.

They feel emotionally disconnected, so can easy maltreat others and be violent.

It is not easy to pick up on and is very difficult to treat.

A genetic component has not yet been found so it cannot be treated with drugs like mental illnesses can.

Those who have it can be very manipulative and dangerous and they are more likely to get into trouble with the law, but not likely to get in trouble all the time.

They have a difficulty in maintaining stable relationships and can often lose contact with reality.

Source: BBC
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