A question about the superiority of the naqshbandi silsila

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#76 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 11:36

Muadh_Khan wrote:

View original post

That is fine bro....you do that. With regards to cult it will always be there. Some may call it adab of shaykh, others may think of it as adab, some call it worship, some call it respect. Some degree of it will always be there. It will either be some deobandi shaykh, Hamza yusuf, haqqani saab,tahir ul qadri whatever. The ghair muqalid are equally cultish.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

london786

11,901

Brother

342

#77 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 11:41

london786 wrote:

View original post

The entire Muslim world has cults, does that make it right for you to be involved in one? Why do you counter with examples of Dr Tahirul-Qadri and Barelwees or whatever?

Who cares what they do? When confronted with a problem at work do you work to solve it or give examples of other companies who have the same problem?

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Agree x 1

There is no Plan B!

http://www.central-mosque.com/

#78 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 12:30

Jinn wrote:

View original post

Actually its an expression of the hadith in urdu:

واعلموا ان الجنة تحت ظلال السيوف

Surely, jannah is in the shade of swords.

Namaz e ishq (salah of love) is indeed offered under swords and the difference can only be experienced not explained.

I met a sathi once and he said ive prayed in haramain and ive prayed under the shade of the swords. I dont find the lazzat and joy of the namaz i offered there, anywhere else.

Abdullah bin mubarak ra also expressed the same:

Ya abid al haramain lau absartana
La alimta annaka fil ibadati talaboo.....

I personally find these argumants and discussions pretty useless.

من حسن الاسلام المرء تركه مالا يعني

And i see the same pattern here. Same old debates, same old arguments, what has tasawwuf given us etc etc. Whats the purpose of all this? Nothing. Do u want people to leave tasawwuf or you want them to do their islah?

I second what abu muhammad has said. Today, sufis see those who have no shaikhs as 'shayateen' and its an open expression in 'tasawwuf', he who doesnt have a shaikh, shaytaan is his shaikh. I think this is tahreef fid deen. You are distorting deen. Allah has said, koono ma'a assaadiqeen.. not koono ma'a shaikh.

The two things that are stressed in shariah are istikhara and mashwara. والامر شوري بينهم

Do mashwara, do istikhara, pray salatul hajah. If you have a spiritual disease, do mashwara, do istikhara, ask Allah for help. Stay with the saadiqeen (read mujahideen).

واذا عزمت فتوكل علي الله

Thats it.

As for the tasawwuf of today, i see it as some other deen. Its not islam. Its full of takalluf and self made criterias. Today in tasawwuf, shaikh is the criteria. Not nabi alaihi assalam and not sahaba nor quran nor hadith. Shaikh. If you tell a sufi that such and such is a sunnah, aanswer: if it was so important our shaikh would be the first one to do it.

The honor of a muslim is more than that of the kaaba. And what do todays tasawwuf shaikhs do? Insult the poor, bootlick the rich. And what did nabi alaihi assalam did in taif? Gave dawah to the poor man looking after the grape garden.

Special food for shaikh, other food for mureeds. Nabi alaihi assalam drinking from the same cup of milk as all the other sahaba rizwanullah alaihim ajmaeen.

Shaikhs have big bellys, nabi alaihi assala....?

Shaikhs eat three times, restaurants, tikkay kababs, and the claim of the mureeds? Our shaikh is muttabe sunnat mashallah....

Nabi alaihi assalam.....? Two stones on his stomach, sahaba had one.

Todays shaikh - mureed comes, hazrat i want to go to syria. Hazrat says, beta jazbat se nahi hosh se kaam lo, emotions aside, this is shaytaan on you, dont be fooled by shaytan, deen is not emotions, deen is hosh not josh. These people fighting in syria are jazbati people. You have capabilites, you have salahiyat, you should spend that in benefitting people.

Nabi alaihi assalam....... badr? Utaibah, sheebah, waleed came forward and called.. three ansaar, auf, muaaz and abdullah bin rawahah radhiAllahu unhum went out, they asked who are you? Ansaar informed them. The mushrikeen said no, we dont need to fight you. Then the mushrikeen called out Ya Muhammad (sallAllahu alaihinwasallam)send our equals.

Now lets compare what nabi alaihi assalam did with what todays muttabe sunnat tasawwuf shaikhs do.

Nabi alaihi assalam called out, Ya Ubaidah, Ya Hamza, Ya Ali.. go...

Who? Ubaidah bin harith bin abdul muttalib, nabi alaihi assalam cousin. Then hamza? His beloved uncle. Then Ali? His beloved cousin and son in law. Ridhwanullahi alaihim ajmaeen.

Lets move on to moota. Rasoolullah sallAllahu alaihi wasallam sent who as ameer? His beloved sahabi - zaid bin haritha radhi Allahu unhu who was also caled hibbu rasoolillah. What did he say? If zaid is killed then jafar will be ameer. Jafar who? Jafar bin abi talib. Son of ahis uncle abu talib.

Just compare this to todays tasawwuf or todays deen. What we see today is not deen. Its false justification of the nafs and millions of pounds of chanda. This is not sunnah in anyway. This is distorted deen.

Then we hear but thousands of people have come to deen because of hazrat xyz.

I say, hundreds come not thousands and thousands are leaving. Some brothers here posted on another thread how people are becoming athiests and leaving deen around some big madrasahs and khanqahs....

Secondly even if hundreds do come, it doesnt make someone a buzurg, and it cant even compare to:

لغدوة او روحة خير من الدنيا وما فيها

So theyre actually misguided people who think they are on haq calling mujahideen 'josheelay' 'emotional' 'jazbati' 'wasting their lives' 'not knowledgeable'.. what they dont realize is that a morning or an evening of a mujahid guarantees him better than all the amaal being done in dunia.

And one night of ribaat guarantees him the ajr of all the amaal being done behind him, madarsas, tasawwuf, tabligh etc ajr of all amaal go into the bank account of the mujahid.

No comparison at all..

Sahaba were not like the tasawwuf shaikhs of today.

How shaytaan deceives these buzurgs through dreams is aother story. They claim that rasoolullah came and told them to do this and that. I have a doubt its not rasoolullah sallAllahu alaihi wasallam and inshaAllah i will prove it. These dreams are accepted at face value without even asking any details.inshaAllah ill post what sahaba and ibn e sireen and some ulama said about someone who claimed to see rasoolullah sallAllahu alaihi wasallam in dreams.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Winner x 4

11,901

Brother

342

#79 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 12:48

Maulana Taliban is back in town :P

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Winner x 1

There is no Plan B!

http://www.central-mosque.com/

#80 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 13:13

I don't know why, but in today's time I feel more inclined to the Ulema who keep Tasawwuf and their relationship to their Shaykh a private thing than those who run or promote the whole "Khanqahi Nizam". From the little I know about our elders of Deoband only a few of them actually ran big Khanqahs, it was mostly those who did some reviving efforts in the field. The idea to establish the Khanqahi Nizam in today's modern West by all means seems a little bit counter-productive to me. If you think Tasawwuf his helpful in your Islah and strengthens your relationship with Allah, go for it but keep it private and engage in some other kind of work. There are so many things outside the traditional Darul-Uloom and Tabligh structure you can do, if you don't feel comfortable with these. Be more active and not passive. Embark on your own little projects (with friends). Just as an example, you could engage in reviving the Sunnah of Miswak and give the project a deadline of two months. Research, plan, consult scholars, arrange a talk, give out Miswaks, create awareness... The miswak is just an example and you could have anything in mind. Recognize the Islamic deficites or problems Muslims are facing in your area and ponder about ways you can contribute to solving them. With a productive approach tremendous work can be done. But please don't make banners saying "Deobandis reviving Miswaak"... haha...

lol After the reading the post again, I'm not sure if it is really on topic or beneficial but maybe any reader can insha'Allah get some benefit from it.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

#81 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 13:19

He is not a sufi sheikh per se, but Mufti Inayatullah saab of Blackburn is one living example of what taswauff and ilm should produce, in my opinion. Straight forwardness, humility, steadfastness upon sunnah and haq, and taqwa are some qualities of his. Doesn't confuse matters too much, keeps his islahi talks focused towards Quran, sunnah and first three generations.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Unspecified

304

Brother

688

#82 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 13:28

London bhai I will wait for our elder dr76 to comment before I do, to many angles to cover, don't think im capable to do that.

Allot of the points are personal takes on the subject and personal takes are always narrow, other points are frustrations and that at most times cannot be answered.

Genuine and practical points are few and these are the only points which can be discussed.

We can discuss, or we can pick faults, or try to find alternatives, or work with what's there and change what we can (mindsets etc) according to the practical capabilities which neither deprive a person from the benefits of the said efforts/shaykh etc and make them balanced ( and this is another topic all together).

Im not much of a writer, what im thinking does not always translate into being able to write accordingly so forgive me if its not flowing, but meet me face to face then get ready to be awed by my oud.....

And the invitation is always open, I will say though that come 3 days with me or come to a new khanqah in Bradford with me , and spend some time with some ulama we roll with and you will definitely take a new look at all of this inshallah. (Thats how we brainwash)

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Like x 1

"Speaking what is good is better than silence, and silence is better than speaking evil."

Unspecified

304

Brother

688

#83 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 13:35

And to add I had a good long conversation with a known shaykh who is flowing with goodness, I complained on certain things I saw in his mureeds and thought this must be from the teachings of the shaykh, after raising these points and discussing them I got the answers and I now have a different outlook all together, sometimes what we observe is not always the truth of the matter.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

"Speaking what is good is better than silence, and silence is better than speaking evil."

Unspecified

1,011

Brother

881

#84 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 14:26

What the brother has said makes good sense. Do something whatever it is. The reason why I go easy on muadh is that mashallah he does a lot. I mean translating all these articles, running a Sunday school etc is no joke. I can't say the same of the other critiques generally. Activism is good but food for the soul is generally restricted to jaamat/sulook/j. Just my observations. With regards to trying to revive a khanqah system I beg to differ. The problem we have is this watered down sulook which hardly ever existed. People come to khanqah, chill out with their mates, tap away on their iphones, sleep more than home, eat nice biryani (can justify this one) when khanqahs previously were very different. About the deobandi akabir being involved in other work well they could manage as individually they were very strong. I doubt this is the case today. You can't expect mureeds to individually do their azkaar etc therefore zikr majlises for taleem purposes are praiseworthy even according to previous critiques. Also all the deobandi elders took their relationship with their shaykh very seriously and benefitted enormously.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

london786

11,901

Brother

342

#85 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 15:03

the fake shaykh wrote:

View original post

Please let me know what the question was and what the answer was.

Jzk

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

There is no Plan B!

http://www.central-mosque.com/

#86 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 15:15

Deen didnt start at deoband and doesnt stop at deoband.

What about those before him? Syed ahmed shaheed, shah ismail shaheed, maulana adbul hay, rahimahumullah?

Everything in the world has benefit even some haram things have benefits like khamr - fihima ismun kabeer wa manafe.... doesnt mean you start leaving faraidh for other acts which have some benefits?

If u look at the input/output ratio its a sorry state. Input= the chanda in $/� and the output is true revival of deen. Input is in millions of rupees, pounds, dollars spent on madarsa buildings and khanqahs, output is? Molvis looking for ways to sustain themselves and families. They get imam jobs now they cant speak the truth because of the committees.

The sufi mentality today is how to get khilafat, become famous, get mureeds, get chanda, get gifts. I guess this is the only thing we extract from our akabir e deoband, their fame (which Allah gave them they didnt want it) and their mureeds. We dont look at their lives how they spent hardships - maulana hussain ahmed madni.. shaikh ul hind, tehreek e reshmi rumal. Nothing. Hafiz zamin shaheed, maulana ilyas ra. Nothing. Just get khilafat become famous, talk wierd, act like buzurgs, call each other buzurgs, hazrat, shaikh etc. Coming back to topic- is naqshband higher or chishtia. Lets waste a few days on this topic. In the end everyone will give references and scans of books but the end result is 0x0=0. Back to where it started from.

Ill tell you whos the highest:

(كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَائِقَةُ الْمَوْتِ ۗ وَإِنَّمَا تُوَفَّوْنَ أُجُورَكُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ ۖ فَمَنْ زُحْزِحَ عَنِ النَّارِ وَأُدْخِلَ الْجَنَّةَ فَقَدْ فَازَ ۗ وَمَا الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا إِلَّا مَتَاعُ الْغُرُورِ) [Surat Aal-E-Imran : 185]

Whoever is saved from fire and enters jannah has succeeded.

NO MATTER IF HE WAS A NAQSHBANDI, CHISHTI, SUHURWARDI. QADRI, SHAZLI, TIJANI, SHATTARI, OR HE WAS AN ILLITERATE FARMER WHO DOESNT KNOW WHAT TASAWWUF IS, WHAT SHAIKH IS, WHAT NAQSHBANDI IS, BUT HE KNOWS HE HAS TO PRAY FIVE TIMES A DAY AND DOESNT OPPRESS ANYONE.

sorry to the bro who started this thread. Seriously these are jokes. Naqshbandi higher because its closest to sunnah? Which sunnah? How? Just bcoz they wear a white big imamah theyre closest to sunnah? Why?

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Winner x 2

#87 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 15:19

Another thing, you know whos the highest?

(لَا يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُولِي الضَّرَرِ وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنْفُسِهِمْ ۚ فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنْفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَةً ۚ وَكُلًّا وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الْحُسْنَىٰ ۚ وَفَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا) [Surat An-Nisa : 95]

Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good, but Allah has preferred those who fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward;

No matter how many mureeds you have and which silsila you belong to, or from who you have khilafah. Allah has increased the 'Darajah' of mujahideen and Allah has increased their ajr too.

That sums it up.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Winner x 1

#88 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 16:28

Don,t know why...but this thread reminds me of Sunniforum Marhoom o maghfoor :)

Specially Brother SUFI writes exactly like our respected TALIBAN. What a pleasent coincidence....!

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Like x 1

Gham-o-Huzn

3,269

Brother

3,512

#89 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 17:52

Deen didnt start at deoband and doesnt stop at deoband.

We did not need you to tell this. You have wasted some precious moments of your life.
Or worse - you are hating Deoband and hence hating the way of life preferred by Allah - you are in bad shape.
Deoband is about Islam and you might have differences with Deoband explanation but pathological hatred for Deoband is very ominous.
Such a person has lost appreciation for truth.

What about those before him? Syed ahmed shaheed, shah ismail shaheed, maulana adbul hay, rahimahumullah?
Before whom? You do not have the competence to do proper quotation. You do have sentiments, negative sentiments, but can not organize your thoughts.

Everything in the world has benefit even some haram things have benefits like khamr - fihima ismun kabeer wa manafe.... doesnt mean you start leaving faraidh for other acts which have some benefits?
You are suggesting that some one is justifying Khamr like things. Why don't you go elsewhere and leave us alone.
No, it is not a request. It is a rejection.

If u look at the input/output ratio its a sorry state. Input= the chanda in $/� and the output is true revival of deen. Input is in millions of rupees, pounds, dollars spent on madarsa buildings and khanqahs, output is? Molvis looking for ways to sustain themselves and families. They get imam jobs now they cant speak the truth because of the committees.
On the Day of Judgment you'll discover that you are indulging in thanklessness in above paragraph.
May Allah (SWT) protect us from being judged with you.

The sufi mentality today is how to get khilafat, become famous, get mureeds, get chanda, get gifts.
You have come down heavily with a mental sickness - jealousy.
I guess this is the only thing we extract from our akabir e deoband, their fame (which Allah gave them they didnt want it) and their mureeds.

You are not a fit person to talk about Deoband.

We dont look at their lives how they spent hardships - maulana hussain ahmed madni.. shaikh ul hind, tehreek e reshmi rumal. Nothing. Hafiz zamin shaheed, maulana ilyas ra. Nothing. Just get khilafat become famous, talk wierd, act like buzurgs, call each other buzurgs, hazrat, shaikh etc. Coming back to topic- is naqshband higher or chishtia. Lets waste a few days on this topic. In the end everyone will give references and scans of books but the end result is 0x0=0. Back to where it started from.
Sour ball has reached the fermentation stage.

Ill tell you whos the highest:

(كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَائِقَةُ الْمَوْتِ ۗ وَإِنَّمَا تُوَفَّوْنَ أُجُورَكُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ ۖ فَمَنْ زُحْزِحَ عَنِ النَّارِ وَأُدْخِلَ الْجَنَّةَ فَقَدْ فَازَ ۗ وَمَا الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا إِلَّا مَتَاعُ الْغُرُورِ) [Surat Aal-E-Imran : 185]

Whoever is saved from fire and enters jannah has succeeded.
You are overwhelmed by your emotions and hence incapable of enlightening any one.

NO MATTER IF HE WAS A NAQSHBANDI, CHISHTI, SUHURWARDI. QADRI, SHAZLI, TIJANI, SHATTARI, OR HE WAS AN ILLITERATE FARMER WHO DOESNT KNOW WHAT TASAWWUF IS, WHAT SHAIKH IS, WHAT NAQSHBANDI IS, BUT HE KNOWS HE HAS TO PRAY FIVE TIMES A DAY AND DOESNT OPPRESS ANYONE.

You are clueless about the issues at hand.

sorry to the bro who started this thread.
A Muslim had a serious problem to discuss and he made a thread.
You are creating a Fasaad in this thread. Your Fasaad is serious enough to warrant a ban. MuftiSays should not allow the humiliation of a Muslim asking a very genuine question.

Seriously these are jokes.
No. These are serious matters. You are making light of a very serious question. You do not have the qualification nor knowledge to talk about these matters. You are hurting the interests of a believer. Your actions are not acceptable.

Naqshbandi higher because its closest to sunnah? Which sunnah? How? Just bcoz they wear a white big imamah theyre closest to sunnah? Why?
Misfortune has hit you otherwise you will not talk of so many things with derision.

I hope you are never seen at this place.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+5 -0Disagree x 1Winner x 4

Muslim Ummah aspires to attain a rightful and honored place among the civilizations of the world and make our proportionate contribution towards international peace, progress and happiness of humanity.

#90 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2014 18:42

A question crossed my mind, maybe you brothers can help me: Many times some young friends seek my company and it kind of benefits them. For some of them it's the only reason they come to the masjid, i.e. to see me. They also consult with me and ask me for advices pertaining to many different issues. If they ask about Masail, I refer them to the Imam. Now, I'm not bayah to any Shaykh - leave alone having ijazah - and they have no clue about tasawwuf. Is there anything wrong with that?

By the way I'm not trying to show off and some points might be overstated to get my point across.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

A question about the superiority of the naqshbandi silsila

Font Size

Font Weight