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Secularism in India?

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Jinn, abu mohammed, Taalibah
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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 28th April 2014 13:00

Asslamo Allaikum,

Those of us (outside of India) are seriously confused about Indian Ulamah and their slogans of “Secularism” because our Ulamah have declared “Secularism” to be categorically Haram. However eminent Ulamah like Shaykh Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi (RA) openly call for “Secularism”.

I would like Indian Muslims e.g. Maripat Saheb, Desi Takda and others to shed some light on this issue:

  1. What do these Ulamah mean by Secularism?
  2. Do Indian Muslims by and large still support Secularism?
  3. Does this Indian brand of Secularism also applicable to other countries of "Muslim minority" such as UK, USA etc?

Jzk

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 02:23
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Walaikum Salam,

Very interesting audio of Hazrat R.A. I dont feel he is "Calling" towards Secularism, he is just stating that Secularism is a reality, and Maulana Azad R.A was quick to understand that , and that in future time co-existing with it is ought to happen. Because having a True Islamic domination , forget India, is not even happening in a total muslim country. Also from his discussion in the end, he seems to be stating that interfaith hatred , i guess in specific between hindus and muslims should be left in the history and based on the democratic and secular way, steer the country together and live in peace and mutual respect. I guess this is the current reality. Just like how we all here in the west are living together with mutual respect, and giving each other the rights to practice their religion. Offcourse, western secularism is very bias and have elements of hate especially for Islam. Also in the name of secularism, they adopt and promote filthy morals and values. Which many secularist themselves reject.

This sadly is a fact that, secularism along with itself, brings or allows the filthy morals to slip into the society and that is why muslims will always detest it. But i guess in some cases it is much better to have a secular society, rather than a extremist hindu mentality society, where there will always be tension between muslims and hindus . Also some mashaikh in last century or so have realized that to spread Islam or shariah , through force will not work, hence its better to have a peaceful enviornment, where muslims can freely practice the deen and present it to the rest of the society in a peaceful way, and this would work better.

Offcourse, this is very debatable, both the groups have their points, anyways the above is just my idea of what he might be trying to say, maybe Maulana means totally something else. Also i think he hasn't claimed that he agrees with Maulana Azad R.A, merely talks about Maulana Azad 's vision and supports his Ikhlas and character by speaking well of him, Allah hu alam.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 07:50
Khan Sahab some how I can not play the audio embedded by you.
But here are my observations any way.

(1) Personally I do not feel enlightened by the Ulama on this issue of secularism.
(2) There are many very perceptive Ulama who know a thing or two about non-theological matters facing Indian Muslims but the over all situation is pretty pathetic.
(3) Situation is aggravated by fact that our Ulama would like to have a complete control of Muslim mind in India.
(4) Aligarh would have been the place to rejuvenate Indian Muslims but in last 67 years they have not stood on their feet.
(5) As I have alluded to earlier our theological intelligentsia has not overcome, at the mental level, the 1857 disaster while our modern education intelligentsia has not overcome the 1947 partition effects.
(6) In between there was another tragedy of equal proportions - migration of a significant intellectual mass of Muslims to communist ideology.
(7) The modern educated Muslim in India is hopelessly confused by the secular hypnotism.

More later, IA, if some one is interested.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 09:36
What choices do Muslims have in a country like India? Your demographics are not strong enough and too spread out to have a party of your own and if you make alliances with "Secular parties" then you will have to compromise on certain aspects.

What is the way forward for Indian Muslims? I think that it is important for us to discuss India thoroughly in order to find a way for Muslims in other lands (UK, South Africa etc) because Indian Muslims have been at it for 2 centuries. What have we learned as "Muslim minority" in a Non-Muslim majority country?
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 09:50
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uncle muadh could you mention a minority of Muslims who you feel have been a bit successful.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 09:52
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I can't so we have to survive somehow!
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 10:18
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Good questions all.
I'll add a bit or two later on bout some of these questions.
I am struggling with these very questions at this very moment on Facebook.
It will be nice if you could join us there. It will not be practically possible to keep every detail posted here.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 11:09
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Please post a link to your facebook page.

Jzk
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 11:21
So uncle muadh considering all the problems minorities generally face don't you agree that the south Africans and british muslims have done a great job....
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 12:21
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 12:27
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I don't know about South Africa but Deobandees have basically come to UK formed an island and carried on regardless of what happens to the country, its policies towards Muslims and other groups.

As a result, Deobandees are isolated in UK. Groups which are significantly lower and with 1/10th of resources are punching way above their weight in UK. How is that a good policy?

"Other groups" are making significant inroads into Deobandi communities and you know that.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 12:35
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but still way better than any other minority in the West. I am sure you would agree on that as wel.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 12:42
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Absolutely agreed. In America they have compromised their Sunnah to a large extent but in UK Muslims have dug their heels in and refused to budge.

Europe is even worse so yes Alhumdolillah may Allah (SWT) reward everyone in this world and the next in UK who have worked and sacrificed so we have some semblance of Sunnah (Ameen).
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 15:22
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Muslim Ummah aspires to attain a rightful and honored place among the civilizations of the world and make our proportionate contribution towards international peace, progress and happiness of humanity.
#15 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2014 01:01
muslims only make up 15% of the population so cant really do much but support secular parties to keep bjp out.
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