Narrations mentioned by Tableegi Jamat

Unspecified

2,891

Brother

279

#181 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 02:21

Imam Ali wrote:

View original post

والسلام

Since the respected Shaykh Zakariya rahimullah has provided Daleel on Daleel ( proof on proof ) in his article, hence please provide your evidence on which basis you don't agree ? Otherwise it'll be a huge discredit to the Shaykhul Hadith.

Read it with an open mind and heart and Insha'Ala it'll be clear as day, it won't make sense though if you let your nafs get in the way. This is a common thing with most critics, their critique is based on their nafs and that's been my experience majority of the time. Wallahi open up and you'll see the kher init if Allah shows you.

What brothers ? So far reading this thread I've come across one brother who disagreed with the article ( he himself goes in TJ just to mention ) also the other brothers have been debating the linguistic meaning of a word, that's all.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Like x 1

Jinn

Unspecified

592

Brother

2,191

#182 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 02:51

Sigh...it seems like only in Deen do common people pass their opinions on matters which specifically relate to the qualifications of ulama.

Reminds me of the Hadith in bukhari about the signs of the end of times...

report post quote code quick quote reply

+3 -0Like x 3

الشكر قيد الموجود وصيد المفقود

Shukr binds the present (bounties) and traps the absent (bounties)

Unspecified

2,891

Brother

279

#183 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 08:56

Sulaiman84 wrote:

View original post

For me this comes to mind at the time being..

"Imam Shafii stated, I debated a scholar and beat him. Then I debated a layman and that layman beat me - he had no knowledge of the principles and texts. I had nothing to say".

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Like x 2

Jinn

Unspecified

1,241

Brother

1,935

#184 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 09:34

Jinn wrote:

View original post

To be fair, I guess what the OP is trying to saying is that Shaykh Khandelvi's view is not necessarily the only opinion regarding the matter. One cannot blame him, you don't really come across other scholars not related to the deoband equating Tableegh to Jihad.

You can't really call TJ dawah, since its policy is not to approach non-muslims (right?). Basically before TJ was formed, tableegh is 'amr bil maroof, nahi anil munkar' (enjoining good and forbidding evil ). There are many ayahs on its significance. But I am yet to come across anyone before TJ, equating Jihad to 'amr bil maroof, nahi anil munkar'. If I m not wrong feesabilillah(going in the path of Allah) has been used for many other deeds than Jihad, eg: travelling to seek out ilm etc etc.

But from 'little' of what I have seen is that there is a current trend of translating the hadith regarding jihad into going for tableegh. Which is not right. Translate it as Jihad itself and give the explanation that seeking ilm, tableegh etc has the same reward.

So you can't blame the OP for not accepting shaykh Khandelvi's view in this matter.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+3 -0Like x 3

umar123

Unspecified

2,891

Brother

279

#185 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 11:22

umar123 wrote:

View original post

السلام عليكم my brother

How many from the masses go out for jihad akhii ? Be honest, how many thousands or hundreds have gone from your city ? This is a serious question how many go akhii ?

Answer is not many, many dont even know the kalima, how to read Salah, many probably don't know where the mosque is, hardly know anything about Deen, you seriously think these will go and do jihad ?

TJ isn't really a dawah as they don't give dawah to non-Muslims ? Akhii this insha'Ala is the next step, tell me one thing, someone at home is and your neighbour is ill who do you treat first ? Obviously the person at home then the neighbour, same can be said for this work. They might not give direct dawah but Wallah listen to the karaguzari's many many become Muslims due to this effort. In India whole villages are being converted by Christian missionaries what not. Who's responsible for that ? Me and you are because we failed to get out there. Each one of us is responsible for the decendance of the Ummah, from kings we became slaves and today a dog has more value than a muslim. You talk about jihad and dawah to non Muslims ? Sounds good on paper and on the Internet brother, reality is very different, go out there and see for yourself.

Isn't the one who propagates the Deen of Allah a type of Jihad ? Aren't they furthering the name of Allah ? Aren't they many types of jihad ? Won't the people involved in such an effort get some reward ?

I've come across many many brothers who like to rave on about Jihad, criticise everything out there, look closer and you'll see their part of nothing just a bunch of street corner mufti's, all they are part of is giving their criticisms out, the same guys will be talking about freeing Al-Quds and come fajar time the liberators of Al-Quds will be snoring for England.

Also in regards to your bolded point, if that's the case then don't you think the Ulema involved in the effort have ghairah ??? Seriously you really think they will let someone malign the Deen and interpret it wrongly and sit back and watch, yes criticisms for it are on both sides, but there are more for this effort then not for it. Go and spend time and you'll know what I'm talking about dont base your knowledge on what you come across the Internet or due to the fact that a certain mufti chose to take digs at TJ. Show me an effort as big as it is and close to the Quran and Sunnah which is working on spreading Islam globally ? Show me one equivalent to TJ akhii, I've been everywhere I found none, please do mention it If you know any that I might have missed.

Talk is cheap my brothers. I heard a scholar say in this day and age do die for Allah and his Prophet (saw)

is easier but to live for them is harder. How many live for them ?

It's turned into a bit of rant but I hope you've understand what Im trying to get across, a kid learns to crawls before he can walk, jump and run. If he tries to do so he falls flat on his face. This work is working at the grassroots and a lot more is needed.

Make your niyyah yourself to go out in the path of Allah in Khurooj. The Sahaba sacrificed their lives for it, today the most we can do is sacrifice our time, wealth and effort for it. Deen will never come whilst sitting on the Internet but with sacrifice.

Just my two cents

The rest Allah knows best

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Like x 1

Jinn

Unspecified

1,241

Brother

1,935

#186 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 13:21

There is no room for emotions here. This is an academic discussion. Does the hadith mentioning Al ghazi/Jihad/Feesabilillah etc applicable to TJ. If all which all of them are applicable? Is it allowed to do Qiyas and extend it to other deeds? etc etc.

I don't think anyone in this thread have undermined the effort of TJ.

Quote:

Talk is cheap my brothers. I heard a scholar say in this day and age do die for Allah and his Prophet (saw)

is easier but to live for them is harder. How many live for them ?

Yes talk is cheap. But that does not change facts. Even if I say one have to pray salah 5 times daily and do not do it, I ll be liable for punishment, but the fact of 5 salah daily doesn't change.

I don't want to repeat myself unnecessarily. What I wanted to I have said in the previous post. Too much repetition, and people will think I am against TJ, which I am not. But facts are facts.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Like x 1Winner x 1

umar123

Unspecified

592

Brother

2,191

#187 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 13:45

umar123 wrote:

View original post

If he read the content of Mufti Mahmudul Hasan رحمة الله عليه's fatwa which was posted earlier in this thread, big Shafi'i Ulama such as Ibn Hajar Asqalani رحمة الله عليه (mentions that acquiring the knowledge of Deen (learning), imparting it (teaching) as well as amr bil ma'ruf and nahi 'anil munkar are all forms of j!had. In the like manner, writing books of Deen, explaining masaa'il to people, responding to those who object to the Deen and debating with them are also forms of j!had.) and Imam Nawawi رحمة الله عليه considered there to be many forms of j!h@d. Those giants of Ilm were not Deobandiyyah at all.

The problem boils down to the Laymen Muslims around the world and more particularly, Muslims living in the west in that there's a big disconnect between the layman and Ulama', due to which many of these things seem strange when they get exposed to it. I remember back in the early 90's and onwards, Hanafis and generally other follows of madhahib in my community due to not being connected to Ulama', were all effected by Salafis in thinking that doing Taqlid was bid'ah and shirk! lol Now, alhamdulillah the situation is that their positions have been thoroughly refuted to such an extent that many of them have dropped the labeling and started practicing some level of Taqlid. Who knew, right (which the Salafis were doing with their Ulama' in the first place lol).

You can call it Da'wah precisely because of working mainly amongst the Muslims. As I heard from a few Ulama, and specifically Mawlana Ibrahim Dewla that there's Da'wah to Islam and Da'wah to Iman. The latter is for the Muslims and requires much more effort. I've heard the argument before that: Tabligh is for Muslims and Da'wah is for Non-Muslims. A reply to this is the masnun du'a of Rasulullah (saw)

after the adhan: "Allahumma Rabba hadhihi ad-Da'wah at-Tamah...(O Rabb of this complete Da'wah). We all know that the call to Salah is for the Muslims...

And then, in the Tafsir of Surah Al-Abasa from Ma'ariful Qur'an wherein Rasulullah (saw)

was taught by Allah Ta'ala to give preference to a blind, poor Muslim over the rich Mushrikeen. That's very clear.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+3 -0Like x 3

الشكر قيد الموجود وصيد المفقود

Shukr binds the present (bounties) and traps the absent (bounties)

Unspecified

592

Brother

2,191

#188 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 14:07

umar123 wrote:

View original post

That issue was solved already. Rasulullah (saw)

used the word "Ghazaa" for those who equipped or looked after the family of the Ghazi (even though they were not actually fighting themselves) and he (saw)

also compared the truthful giver of Sadaqah to a Ghazi in the path of Allah, as mentioned in Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud, from Mishkatul Masabih in the chapter of Zakat.

Post# 164

report post quote code quick quote reply

+3 -0Like x 3

الشكر قيد الموجود وصيد المفقود

Shukr binds the present (bounties) and traps the absent (bounties)

Unspecified

2,891

Brother

279

#189 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 14:10

umar123 wrote:

View original post

No emotions at all my brother, many Fuqaha have extended Jihad further than Qital i.e their are many forms of jihad and the response by Shaikul Hadith rahimullah was all backed by Ahadith in which he showed how such ahadith can be used for going out in the path of Allah. If someone wants to disagree then please bring your proof ?

Now if you or anyone still dismisses it then that's your own approach and I wish you best of luck in it. I heard a scholar mention people who dismiss tableegh do so based on their own nafs and that's all, otherwise this work is benefitting millions worldwide. Also just for the record I'm not a tableeghi.

Yes I'll repeat it again 'talk is cheap'.

If questions/answers are still unclear then I guess maybe just email a mufti and see what he says and take it from there.

The rest Allah knows best

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Like x 2

Jinn

Unspecified

2,891

Brother

279

#190 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 14:19

Is it permissible to go out in jamaat and label it as "fesabillilah" (since some people say
this word can only be associated with going for war)? What is the evidence for using
Jihad verse for this work?

Allah Taala states in the Quraan: And struggle for the sake of Allah as it is required. Anas
reported that the Messenger of Allah said: Whoso goes out in search of knowledge, he is in
the path of Allah till he returns. (Tirmizi)
In view of the above, it is permissible to go out in Jamaat as this is also fee-sabeelillah and
this has been emphasised in the Quran. Fee sabeelillah includes all kinds of efforts and
struggle, e.g. tongue, pen, money, body, etc. (Kanzul Ummaal vol.10 pg.158)

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Like x 2

Jinn

Unspecified

592

Brother

2,191

#191 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 14:34

Jinn wrote:

View original post

You're a tablighi, as is every other Muslim. Trust me. ;-)

Based on this Ayah and Hadith:

"Say, (you believe it or not) 'This is my way. I call (people) to Allah with full cognition - myself and my followers. And pure is Allah. And I am not among the associators."

Yusuf:108

classicalislamgroup.com/index.php?view=tafseer/s12-v102to109

'Abdullah ibn Amr رضي الله عنه narrates that Nabi (saw)

said: Convey from me even if it be a single verse.

(Bukhari)

report post quote code quick quote reply

+2 -0Like x 2

الشكر قيد الموجود وصيد المفقود

Shukr binds the present (bounties) and traps the absent (bounties)

London

27,479

Brother

9,579

#192 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 14:34

I didn't really want to add anything else, but I hope it's all clear.

The issue as we all know is not about the great work of Tabligh. Just the matter of how the Hadith are used by one to mean it's for them.

Personally, I still take it as they are exclusive for jihad, however that doesn't rule out their use for tabligh as mentioned by the great ulama.

Tabligh is valid, jihad is valid, Sufism is valid, therefore it's best to end the topic and not get into an endless debate.

Jihad is the sixth pillar of Islam, how one interprets its as Qital or tabligh is down to them and Allah knows best. One should not ridicule the other as has been happening for years.

For those in Qital, tell those in tabligh to join them and rightfully so, but when it happens the other way round, that is totally uncalled for.

I understand exactly where member Imam Ali is coming from as I was there too. But the work is still respected by us all.

As long as all aspects of the Deen is being carried by various people, inshaAllah things will carry on well. But as soon as parts of the Deen are abandoned, then we need to worry.

Let the mujahid continue with their Qital and let the tablighi continue with their tabligh. If either one of them stops, then we will see our end....

I have two blog posts. One on Fazaail e A'maal and the other on who is right. Both lectures are awesome and should be heard by everyone.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+3 -0Like x 3

Actions are judged by intentions, so each man will have what he intended.
ابو محمد

London

27,479

Brother

9,579

#193 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 14:43

Who is right?

Fazaail e A'maal, dodgy or not?

report post quote code quick quote reply

+1 -0Informative x 1

Actions are judged by intentions, so each man will have what he intended.
ابو محمد

Unspecified

1,225

Brother

125

#194 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 15:14

Jinn wrote:

View original post

Salaams akhi,

It's not a discredit to the respected Sheikh at all considering I'm associated with Tablighi Jamat to a certain degree when I attend the Gasht programs each weekends and have the intention to go for 3 days every month, but I choose not to believe I'll be entitled to all the rewards they go on about and that the narrations which, have been brought forward are literally and exclusively for those who go out seeking martyrdom in the path of Allah. I could be wrong and Allah knows best. I'm content that the content in this thread has quenched my sheer and morbid curiosity.

People disagree based on their logic, understanding and faculty of reason not just on solid evidence. I'm not going to delve into it too much as scholars in general differ on interpretive matters and it's trivial when my main goal in Deen is to perfect my salah, fasts and zikr.

May Allah reward all the brothers in this thread.

Jazak'Allah to all.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+4 -0Like x 2Winner x 2

Imam Ali

Unspecified

1,225

Brother

125

#195 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2014 15:15

abu mohammed wrote:

View original post

I personally stick to the narrations from the main 6 books and read upon the classical commentaries from famous Muhadithoon.

report post quote code quick quote reply

+0 -0Optimistic x 1

Imam Ali

Narrations mentioned by Tableegi Jamat

Font Size

Font Weight