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#121 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 16:47

xs11ax wrote:

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The point I'm making is that the Arabic word ghazaa was used for the one who didn't go out, not about whether they assisted them or not. The condition of some form of assistance was already understood by the chapter heading.

As you claim, you hardly speak Arabic and don't feel confident relying on others. Hence any mistakes.....?!?

These are big mistakes. Let's stop the discussion إن شاء الله.

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#122 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 16:48

Servant.Of.Allah wrote:

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I am well aware of this masterpiece Alhamdulillaah. I am thinking about something quite different.

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#123 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 16:49

xs11ax wrote:

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That's not the case. Just don't restrict the use of Arabic words to one meaning when Ulama have clearly explained more than one...otherwise these start sounding like ahle hadith arguments from the sub continent.

It seems as if you would want to limit the meanings of Arabic that Ulama have explained to us from Hadith.

In contrast to your quote above, below is an example of how it seems like you're restricting meanings:

و المجاهد من جاهد نفسه في طاعة الله

And a [true] warrior is one who exerts himself in the obedience of Allah

(Ahmad, Bayhaqi, Shu'bul Iman)

[A] "Exerting oneself in the obedience of Allah" is considered the greater J!had, which includes within it the lesser J!had - that is fighting in the path of Allah. Hence, there is no conflict in this Hadith with the lesser form of J!had. It is included in this Hadith along with other struggles like refraining from everything Allah has prohibited, fulfilling everything that Allah has commanded, and doing one's best to procure His pleasure. The true warrior is, therefore, the one who most obedient to Allah in all aspects of his faith.

From the Hadith book, Zadut-Talibeen (Provisions for the Seekers) with translation and commentary from Mufti Abdur Rahman Ibn Yusuf

The word "Mujahid" in Arabic is used there...more than one meaning.

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#124 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 18:09

Sulaiman84 wrote:

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the arabic word ghaza was used for the ones who didnt go out fro jihad, but who assisted those who went out for jihad and looked after their families.

if there are other hadith that refer to people as ghazi other than those who are engaged in jihad (war), or other than those referred to as ghazi by merit of assisting those who who are engaged in jihad (war), or other than those who are referred as ghazi by merit of looking after the families of those who are engaged in jihad (war), then please show me.

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#125 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 18:15

Sulaiman84 wrote:

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why jump from ghazi to mujahid? just because one word can be used differently doesnt mean all words can be used differently.

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#126 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 18:36

xs11ax wrote:

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Yes, that's already understood brother, but besides the point. Ulama have shown that there can be more than one meaning to Arabic words depending on how they're used. Legal/linguistic meanings vary depending on context. I don't think anyone is advocating that these terminologies be used on every Zaid, Bakr and Abdullah but, you, me or anyone else can't object when the Nass (what has been transmitted from Qur'an and Hadith) allows it. It's as simple as that.

It's like reading that Hadith of Rasulullah (saw)

about a "Mujahid" and then indirectly saying or implying that it only means actual physical fighting...please.

It's true, as I've witnessed ghuloo' in this matter from some in the work of Tabligh but I also see it from those involved in the other mubarak efforts of Deen; restricting meanings to only one thing. It's like those who accuse others of what they're guilty of doing themselves at times.

The points that were made are clear and I think there's no need to carry on with this discussion, as mistakes and misinterpretations seem to follow.

Let's call it quits, brother.

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#127 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 19:18

Mystery of Dhaeef Hadeeth !!

A beautiful explanation by our Hazrat, shaykhul Hadith mawlana Yusuf Motala Saheb damat barakatuhum.

"Many people get very charged up and excited at the mention of many ahadeeth and just cannot resist labelling anything they do not know or agree with as "DHAEEF", meaning "WEAK", without even knowing and understanding what the term means and implies especially if it is a narration from "Fazaile Aamal" written by Shaikhul-Hadeeth Molana Zakariyyah Kandhalvi rahimahullah.

Firstly: The literal meaning of hadeeth is a "statement". Any statement is literally a "hadeeth". In Islamic literacy , hadeeth is implied to be a statement by or regarding Rasoolullah sallallaho alaihe wasallam.

But in the Quran it also says
هل اتك حديث موسى ..
"Did the hadeeth of Musa (alaihissalaam) reach you?"
It also says
هل اتك حديث ضيف ابراهيم المكرمين
"Did the hadeeth of the honourable guests of Ibraheem (alaihissalaam) reach you?"

This is why in books of haddeth , there are statements or sayings of Rasoolullah sallallaho alaihe wasallam , of sahaabah , of tabi'eens and even people after them.

Secondly. The term saheeh or dhaeef is used to describe the status of the chain of narration and not just the text. Hence in many cases although the chain by which a hadeeth has been narrated is weak but the subject contained therein is sound and supported by other narrations or even Quran.

The hadeeth
انما بعثت معلما
"I have been sent as a teacher", has been classified as dhaeef but the message contained therein is supported by the Quran where Allah says about the prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam ,
ويعلمكم ما لم تكونوا تعلمون .
"He teaches you what you did not know".

So the prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam was obviously a teacher as well.

Thirdly-Whether a hadeeth and a narration is saheeh(authentic) or dhaeef (weak) is not an absolute and divine classification but rather the opinion of a muhaddith regarding a particular narration as there is not and cannot be a single narration about which Allah or his beloved prophet have stated that this is saheeh or dhaeef.Hence there are many narrations which are classified as saheeh by one scholars but dhaeef or weak by another.

Fourthly- if a hadeeth is unacceptable and ought to be rejected because it is weak and in Fazaaile Aamal and the author Shaikhul-Hadeeth Molana Zakariyya is criticised for including it in his book , then virtually every other book of hadeeth apart of Bukhari and Muslim will need to be done away with as well, because Sheikh Zakariyyah did NOT make up those narrations but rather just quoted them from other original books of hadeeth compiled over a thousand years ago by great Muhadditheen, like Imam Tirmidhi , Abu Dawood , Ibn Majah etc. They were all considered to be amongst the greatest Muhadditheen ever in the ummah.

So if they thought it permissible and necessary to present dhaeef narrations in their compilations then why have people a thousand years down the line got problems.

So rejecting dhaeef hadeeth merely because they are dhaeef is NOT the way of the pious ancestors -salaf saliheen but against the practice of the salaf-saliheen , as long as they do not contradict the Quran and other saheeh narrations ,and even then sometimes there is a reasonable explanation or interpretation to justify their inclusion in a book to support or prove a point and doesn't necessarily mean that it should be rejected and ignored altogether.

Athough, preference is given to Quran and then saheeh hadeeth in all matters but many scholars have also stated that,
"A dhaeef hadeeth is still better than no hadeeth" and better than the opinion of someone.

This was also the stand of Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal rahimahumullah.

Source

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ربي زدني علما
(My Lord! Increase me in Knowledge)

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#128 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 19:40

Sulaiman84 wrote:

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all i want to know is how can the word ghazi/warrior be applied to everyone who is 'striving in the path of allah'. the hadith that you used as evidence only applies the term warrior to those who are actually assisting or looking after the family of a warrior. so such a person is only termed as a ghazi by merit of the actual ghazi who is fighting in jihad. show me just one hadith that applies the term ghazi to someone other than an actual warrior or to someone who is assisting an actual warrior. if you do not know of any such hadith then just say you do not know.

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#129 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 20:03

xs11ax wrote:

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Brother, I don't want to continue this discussion as to not derail the thread and because of this statement of yours:

i hardly speak a word of arabic so i have to rely on google to help me. i no longer feel confident on relying on others. hence any mistakes.

If's that's your position, please stop asserting your opinions...

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#130 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 20:27

Sulaiman84 wrote:

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all i am asking you to do is to substantiate your claim that ghazi can be used to refer to those other than a warrior fighting in jihad or those who have been explicitly mentioned by the prophet (saw)

by way of merit for assisting someone who is fighting in jihad. i do not need to know arabic for this.

i understand that mujahid or jihad can be used in different ways as the literal translations of these words allow this. show me how the word ghazi can be used to refer to ANYONE who is in 'the path of allah'.

do not worry if i understand your explanation or not. if i dont then i will seek the help of others to understand. thats my problem. you show me how a person who is not engaged in jihad or helping those who are in jihad can also be called ghazi or warrior.

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#131 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 20:34

xs11ax wrote:

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You're on a few Tabligh threads usually in an argument. It's the biggest & most successful methodology in the world. Live with it. Your implied criticisms on a forum won't change a thing.

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#132 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 20:38

Quote:

Hazrat Ibn Umar رضي الله عنه narrates a saying of Rasulullah (saw)

that striving in the path of Allah.. Haji.. and one who performs Umrah are amongst the delegations of Allah, whatever dua they make are accepted. (Ibn Majah, Sahih Ibn Habaan, Bahiqi,Nisai, Sahih Ibn Khuzaimah)

how is that the correct translation? i dont understand arabic, but even then i will give you the correct translation!

the prophet (saw)

said, THE WARRIOR IN THE PATH OF ALLAH....

may allah deal with those who knowingly try to disguise the words of the prophet of allah (saw)

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#133 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 20:49

Anonymous wrote:

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dont waste my time. you do not know me or know anything about me.

i have probably spent more time in jamaat than you and i will continue to spend time in jamaat.

that does not mean i will sit back when the words of the prophet (saw)

are blatantly misused.

my success, your success, and the success of mankind lies in following the commandments of allah as shown by the prophet (saw)

. my prophet (saw)

said ghazi, and i will defend his words from those that try to disguise them.

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#134 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 20:54

Guest-208387 wrote:

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Sorry guest, but I disagree.

Change or no change, many of us are sincerely trying to get the best out of everything and trying our best to defend the work. However, if there are ups and downs, then they should be clarified. Until that's not done, the efforts of tabligh will always be going up and down in numbers.

Tablighis will always see their work as the most widespread, Salafi will see their work as the fastest growing, barelwi will keep making tombs and the list can go on.

For me the reason why such a topic is important to read up on or learn from is because of the stories one hears about our other brothers in the real (other) path of Allah.

There is a "Zameen Aasmaan ka farak" in the two paths. And quite frankly, I don't think the easier path will ever give the Tablighi brothers a chance thinking about the other path.

I have heard with my own ears, brothers saying that there is no jihad in the world (in this day and age) because they consider every Hadith for their work and translate every Hadith in their favour. And if I'm not mistaken, that is kufr to say such a thing. Also a rejection of ample Hadith and verses of the Quran.

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#135 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 20:56

I can now picture some people mentioning the Hadith about crawling on ice to go and help the Mahdi, but being translated as helping him in tabligh.

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