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Narrations mentioned by Tableegi Jamat

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#106 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 13:16

The first, foremost and fundamental component of Takhreej people need to understand before undertaking this task is that the science of Jarh wat-Ta'deel is based on Dhann.

In matters where Ulamah have disagreed on narrators the range of verdicts are:

  1. Thiqah
  2. Hasan
  3. Da'eef
  4. Kaddhab
  5. etc etc etc

AND then you have the additional problem of the same narrator being weak and acceptable in 2 chains and an obvious example is Muammal bin Ismail (RA)

  • You have Salafees who bent the rules to show that he is Thiqah (or at least aceptable)
  • Non-Salafees who show that EVEN if he is acceptable (by some) his narrations for Sufyan Thawri (RA) are certainly problematic

Therefore judging Ahadeeth is not a Maths equation which you can solve but the narrators are differed upon and secondarily the same narrators from two different chains may get different views.

I am fluent in Urdu and I have read many objections and counter-responses on Fazail-e-Amaal including Shaykhul-Hadeeth (Maulana) Zakariyya Kandhalwi (RA)'s own respond and NOT ONCE have I seen any reason to suspect that Shaykh (RA) deliberately narrated fabricated narrations, rather the truth is that he has relied on other Scholars' views on narrators and narrations (both).

This is true for many Hadeeth compilations in Islam including Al-Adab Al-Mufrad of Imam Bukhari (RA) which most certainly contains weak narrations and most possibly fabricated narrations and if Imam Bukhari (RA) has done it (accidentally or deliberately) then Fazail-e-Amaal can be excused.

 

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#107 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 13:37
xs11ax wrote:
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It can also be used for someone who isn't physically fighting, as mentioned in Riyadhus Saliheen, in the Chapter, Helping each other in righteousness and piety. Hadith# 177 and 178
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#108 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 13:49
dr76 wrote:
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Written by Ihsan Al-Utaibi. Havent heard about this person

His list also includes the below hadith..

My Companions are like the stars; whichever of them you follow, you will be rightly guided, and in another narration: My Companions are like the stars; whichever of them you take his opinion, you will be rightly guided. Ibn Hazm said: a fabricated void false tradition, that was never found to be authentic "Al-Ihkaam fee Usool Al-Ahkaam" (5/64), and (6/82). Al-Albani said: Fabricated "Al-Da'eefa" (66), and see also "Jami' Bayan Al-Ilm wa Fadlih" by ibn Abdilbar (2/91)
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#109 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 14:25
Servant.Of.Allah wrote:
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Even iam not aware of this person 'Al utaibi'.. lets wait from the response by the Mufti contacted by Hafiz saheb..
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#110 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 14:31
dr76 wrote:
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So the fabricated Hadith can't be used for fadha'il but weak can be?
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#111 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 14:32
dr76 wrote:
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Nothing to do with this Al-Otaibi guy (whoever he is). Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) has mentioned it in his Salah book (Appendix) and Al-Otaibi is merely reporting i.
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#112 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 14:40
Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:
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Correct.
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#113 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 15:06
Sulaiman84 wrote:
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salaam

this is all i could find...

Quote:
قَالَ الله تَعَالَى : ﴿ وَتَعَاوَنُوا عَلَى الْبِرِّ وَالتَّقْوَى ﴾ [ المائدة (2) ] . يأمر تعالى عباده المؤمنين بالتعاون على الطاعات وترك المعاصي . وَقالَ تَعَالَى : ﴿ وَالْعَصْرِ إِنَّ الإنْسَانَ لَفِي خُسْرٍ إِلا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالصَّبْرِ ﴾ [ العصر (1 : 3) ] .قَالَ الإمام الشافعي - رَحِمَهُ الله - كلاماً معناه : إنَّ النَّاسَ أَوْ أكثرَهم في غفلة عن تدبر هذِهِ السورة . صرَّح بكلام الشافعي شيخ الإسلام محمد بن عبد الوهاب رحمه الله فقال : قال الشافعي رحمه الله تعالى : لو ما أنزل الله حجة على خلقه إلا هذه السورة لكفتهم . يعني أنها تضمنت أحوال الناس ، فأخبر تعالى أنَّ الناس كلهم في خسار إلا مَنْ آمن وعمل صالحًا وصبر .
Allah, the Exalted, says:

"Help you one another in Al-Birr and At-Taqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety)". (5:2)

"By Al-'Asr (the time). Verily, man is in loss. Except those who believe (in Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth [i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al-Ma'ruf) which Allah has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al-Munkar) which Allah has forbidden], and recommend one another to patience (for the sufferings, harms, and injuries which one may encounter in Allah's Cause during preaching His religion of Islamic Monotheism or Jihad)". (103:1-3)

[177] وعن أَبي عبد الرحمن زيد بن خالد الجهني قَالَ : قَالَ رسولُ الله : � مَنْ جَهَّزَ غَازِياً في سَبيلِ اللهِ فَقَدْ غَزَا ، وَمَنْ خَلَفَ غَازياً في أهْلِهِ بِخَيرٍ فَقَدْ غَزَا � . مُتَّفَقٌ عَلَيهِ . في هذا الحديث : أنَّ مَن أعان على فعل خير كان له مثل أجر عامله .
177. Khalid Al-Juhani (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "He who equips a warrior in the way of Allah (will get the reward of the one who has actually gone for Jihad); and he who looks after the family of a warrior in the way of Allah will get the reward of the one who has gone for Jihad".

[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

Commentary: This Hadith tells the mode which can make Jihad more effective and give the participants of Jihad equal share in its reward. Every society has many able-bodied young people who want to take part in Jihad but do not have the resources for it, and this is how a very useful segment of the society fails to make any contribution to it. On the other hand, there are people in the society who have plenty of resources but do not possess health, vigour and youth which are essential for Jihad. According to the method prescribed in this Hadith, not only the requisite manpower and resources essential for Jihad are combined but everyone gets an even share in its reward. It should be kept in mind that in the early period of Islam, Mujahidun (the Muslims who took part in Jihad) were neither professional soldiers nor were they paid regular salaries, the way they now constitute a regular, permanent and vast military institution. These Mujahidun used to take part in Jihad voluntarily as is being done nowadays under many organizations also.
[178] وعن أَبي سعيد الخدري : أن رَسُول الله بعث بعثاً إِلَى بني لِحْيَان مِنْ هُذَيْلٍ ، فَقَالَ : � لِيَنْبَعِثْ مِنْ كُلِّ رَجُلَيْنِ أَحَدُهُمَا وَالأجْرُ بَيْنَهُمَا � . رواه مسلم . في هذا الحديث : دلالة على أنَّ الغازي والخالف له بخير ، أجرهما سواء .
178. Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) sent a detachment to Banu Lahyan tribe and remarked, "Let one of every two men get ready to advance, and both will earn the same reward".


please copy and paste the relevant section which says that the word 'ghazi' (warrior/fighter) can also be used for someone who is not physically fighting.
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#114 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 15:18
xs11ax wrote:
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Rasulullah (saw) used the Arabic word غزا for the one who didn't go out...was looking at the Arabic, not English translation.
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#115 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 15:48

Tableeghi Jamaat: On the scale of Qur'aan & Sunnah


Tableeghi Jamaat: Fazail-e-Amaal (Virtues of Actions), Objection 11: But why narrate well known fabrications like "My Companions are like the stars..."?

The common narration (amongst others) is as follows:

أصحابي كالنجـــوم بأيهم اقتديتم اهتديتم

My Companions are like the stars; whoever among them you follow, you will be guided.

It has been declared as fabricated by Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) in Silsala al-Ahadith ad-Da’ifa, No.58-61!

However, the counter arguments to the claim of Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) are many, primarily the similitude of companions like stars is clearly mentioned in an authentic narration.

Companions as stars in another Authentic narration:

النجوم أمنة للسماء، فإذا ذهبت النجوم أتى السماء ما توعد، وأنا أمنة لأصحابي، فإذا ذهبت أتى أصحابي ما يوعدون، وأصحابي أمنة لأمتي، فإذا ذهب أصحابي أتى أمتي ما يوعدون

The stars are a source of security for the sky, and when the stars disappear, there will come to the sky what is promised. I am a source of security for my Companions, and when I am gone there will come to my Companions what they are promised. And my Companions are a source of security for my Ummah, and when my Companions are gone, there will come to my Ummah that they are promised.” [Muslim]

10 Scholars of Hadeeth who consider it Authentic:

Secondly, the Shaykh (Maulana) Muhammad (HA) lists 10 Scholars of Hadeeth who have declared a similar narration to be authentic:

1 Imam Bayhaqi (rahimahullah) has mentioned that though all its chains are weak, its subject matter is supported by other authentic Ahadith. (Kitabul I’tiqad; Tuhfatul Akhyar of Ml. Abdul-Hayy Laknawi, pg.57, Al-Badrul Muneer, vol.9 pg.588 and Talkhisul Habir of Hafiz ibn Hajar, vol.4 pg.464)

 

2 Hafiz ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (rahimahullah) has also mentioned another authentic narration that implies the same meaning. (al-Amalil Mutlaqah pgs.59-62)

 

3 Furthermore, although Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal (rahimahullah) had refuted the authenticity of this narration at one stage of his life, in another instance, he actually accepted it. Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah (rahimahullah) has mentioned that, “Imam Ahmad had used these words as proof and this indicates that he regarded it as authentic.” (refer footnotes on Tuhfatul Akhyar pg.62)

 

4 Allamah San’ani (rahimahullah) has stated in his book entitled, ‘Tawdihul Afkar’: “As for ibn Abdil-Barr, he also used it as proof in his book, ‘Al-Tamhid’ and he did not comment on it. So, possibly, he considered the combination of all the chains a strengthening factor, or maybe he knew of other Ahadith that strengthen its meaning.” (Ibid pg.63) Furthermore, Hafiz ibn ‘Abdil Barr (rahimahullah) even clearly disagreed with those who completely deny its authenticity. See Jami’u bayanil ‘ilm, vol.2 pgs.180-181.

 

5 Imam Saghani (rahimahullah) has also classified it as Hasan. (Tuhfatul Akhyar, pg.54; Sharhut Tibi alal Mishkat)

 

6 Hafiz Ibn Kathir (rahimahullah) writes: “The opening paragraphs of the book of ‘Uthman Al-Darimi can give the impression of it being a strong narration” (Tuhfatu Talib, pg.141) i.e. It seems like Imam ‘Uthman Al-Darimi was of the view of this narration being strong.

 

7 My Teacher, Al-Muhaddith Shaykh Muhammad ‘Awwamah (may Allah protect him) writes: “This hadith is debated extensively, but it does have several chains. Therefore Ibn Rajab (rahimahullah) chose to quote it and to support this issue with it.” (Footnotes on: Ma’alim Irshadiyyah, pg.56)

 

8 Allamah Qasim ibn Qutlubugha (rahimahullah) – a renown Hanafi Muhaddith and Faqih- has stated, “it’s chains have defects, but they strengthen each other.” (refer Tuhfatul Akhyar pg.134)

 

9 The learned Muhaddith and Shafi’i Faqih (jurist), Hafiz ibn Hajar al-Haytami (rahimahullah) has classified this Hadith as Hasan (soundly authentic). (Tuhfatul Akhyar, pg.63)

 

10  ‘Allamah Ibn ‘Allan (rahimahullah)- the acclaimed commentator of Riyadhus Saliheen- said: “The defect in this chain in such a situation is harmless” (i.e. since it pertains to virtue) (Daleelul Faliheen, vol.1 pg.410, hadith:192)

 

Verdict of Imam Bayhaqi (RA):

Imam al-Bayhaqi (RA) also narrated the hadith (from Muslim, above) in al-‘Itiqad (1/318). Thereafter he referred to the the same famous ‘dubious’ report and then said:

    والذي رويناه هاهنا من الحديث الصحيح يؤدي بعض معناه

And the Sahih Hadith we narrated here supports some of its meanings.” (al-‘Itiqad, 1/318)

Verdict of Al-Hafidh Ibn Haj'r Al-Asqalani (RA):

 

Hafiz Ibn Hajr (d. 853 AH) commenting on al-Bayhaqi’s words said:

    صدق البيهقي، هو يؤدي صحة التشبيه للصحابة بالنجوم خاصة، أما في الاقتداء فلا يظهر في حديث أبي موسى، نعم يمكن أن يتلمح ذلك من معنى الاهتداء بالنجوم

“al-Bayhaqi said the truth. It shows the reliability of the particular likeness of the companions with the stars. As to (proof of their) following it is not evident in the hadith of Abu Musa. But yes, it is possible that he found a hint for that in guidance with the stars (i.e. in the purpose the stars serve at night)” (Talkhis al-Habir, 4/464)

 

Conclusion:

You may argue that this narration is weak but the usage of weak narrations has been discussed by us extensively, you may also argue that "some" Scholars have declared this narration to be fabricated but it is neither a foregone conclusion nor a consensus. There are plenty of Scholars who have declared this narration to be authentic and as far as its meaning is concerned it is 100% backed by verses of the Qur'aan and authentic traditions.

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#116 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 16:05
Sulaiman84 wrote:
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rasoolullah (saw) used the arabic word 'ghaza' (warriors) for the ones who equipped a ghazi (warrior) for jihad (war), or the one who looked after the family of a ghazi (warrior) while he is engaged in jihad (war).

does that mean whenever and wherever the word ghaza/ghazi (warriors/warrior) is used then it can be applied to those who are not engaging in jihad (war) or who are not equipping a ghazi (warrior) or who is not looking after the family of a ghazi (warrior)?

can the word ghazah/ghazi (warriors/warrior) now be used for anyone that is striving in the path of allah (tabligh/dawah/taleem/charity work etc)?
can the word ghazah/ghazi (warriors/warrior) now be used for anyone that is assisting someone in the path of allah (tabligh/dawah/taleem/charity work etc) or their families?

or can the word ghaza/ghazi (warriors/warrior) only be used for a warrior engaged in jihad (war) and by extension of this merit, also be used for a person who is assisting that ghazi (warrior) by equipping him for jihad (war) or by looking after his family while the ghazi (warrior) is engaged in jihad (war).



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#117 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 16:08
every man and his dog wants to be classed as a mujahid/ghazi, but no on actually wants to fight in jihad.
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#118 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 16:22
xs11ax wrote:
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You're mistaken here. غزا (ghazaa) is in verb form in Arabic, it's not plural of warrior.

It's clear that Rasulullah (saw) used it for the one who didn't actually fight.

As was mentioned before on this thread, ulama have said rewards are similar and not actually the same to the one who is physically doing any good deed.
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#119 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 16:29
Sulaiman84 wrote:
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i hardly speak a word of arabic so i have to rely on google to help me. i no longer feel confident on relying on others. hence any mistakes.

Quote:
It's clear that Rasulullah (saw) used it for the one who didn't actually fight.


you are mistaken. it is clear rasoolullah (saw) is talking about those who didnt fight, BUT ASSISTED THOSE WHO DID FIGHT. how can you fail to notice this? how can this be extended to others who have no connection to a ghazi at all? those who rasoolullah (saw) mentioned have been mentioned on the merit of actually assisting a ghazi who is actually engaged in jihad.
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#120 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2014 16:43
Please only post relevant issues to the current topic, otherwise please start a new topic. Jazakumullah
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