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#121 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2014 12:52

Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:

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Something like that.

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#122 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2014 13:59

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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1. Mufti A.S Sahib's view is also valid. And what you said is also 100% correct. If one has an ID for the right reason then it's rewarding. If one changes an ID for the right reason such as "out of respect" then that's rewarding too. It's times like this that "Innamal-A'maal Bin Niyyaat" plays a vital role

2. Once again, we must respect the angle Mufti A.S. takes on this. He has maybe witnessed many wrongdoings on forums. Even on this forum as much as we try, disrespect, arguments and debates continue. He clearly has a strict stance on tolerance and chooses to rule actions from its root. Remember Umar رضي الله عنه who saw the root of evil and remained strict in his approach towards permissibility. We cannot always understand where they're coming from but no scholar will rule anything impermissible without a reason. As extreme as we may see it, there is reality in there.

3. We do not know if that email is "private" - it's not right to state this as it creates a bad impression of him. The email may be shared by the Majlis and accessible by more than just him.

On the surface, your post was my exact thoughts and I instantly wanted to hit "winner" icon but I cannot ignore Mufti Sahib's approach, understanding and Taqwa.

Even in the case of cricket and Kuffar sport with the amount of Haraam that's involved. I was told recently that "Indian" cricket now has american sportslike almost naked cheerleaders???!!! The amount of gambling that's involved in sports etc. Him saying it's "Haraam" end of is actually not difficult to understand. I don't believe he was referring to playing.

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#123 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2014 14:36

Yasin wrote:

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That makes complete sense. Its like milad un nabi. Our ulama simply gave the fatwa that it is Haraam. They rarely say that it is originally permissible and became prohibited because of the widespread haraam elements that have come in. That would actually defeat the purpose of the fatwa and invite the people to do Milad.

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#124 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2014 16:06

Yasin wrote:

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Forum (public) vs email (private) and that is a fundamental issue. Even if the email is then distributed it is still 1-2-1 while hundreds of people are reading this post.

I am not (Astaghfirullah) accusing Sister or Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) but even the most diehard fans will agree that there is a massive difference between a public forum and a PM (even if its Moderated) and/or email.

No comparison!

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#125 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2014 16:14

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Yes definitely significant difference between them but email is not always private. Gmail has pop3 and imap options which means it can be set up on multiple mail clients by organisations. That's why I mentioned this important point. Husnuzh-zhann to provide an argument from the other end too.

Email although it's one to one, any Q&A is primarily one to one whatever the system of choice is. However, the sender does have private email compared to forum so I see your point too.

PS. (off-topic) Your signature still makes me smile "on purpose"

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#126 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2014 16:18

Yasin wrote:

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Email can be private or can be to a group of a few

Posting on public forum is usually always public or even in private sections open to a major larger audience and the example I gave is of Sunniforum ((most certainly) it is in the thousands because there is no 1-2-1 inter-gender communication

Sorry Maulana but no comparison between the two

Sister has understood it clearly but she obviously won't reply and just brush it aside.

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#127 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2014 16:59

Muadh_Khan wrote:

Sorry Maulana but no comparison between the two[/quote]

"Comparison" wasn't the point at all.
The claim that email is "private" was the point. The only point in fact. My point is that it's not necessarily always "private" as I've explained about email systems.

Muadh_Khan wrote:

Islamic forums aren't Haram as I explained to you that if your posting and Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) replying with 10,000 people publicly witnessing the exchange is Haram then you corresponding secretly (without witness) with a Na-Mehram is DOUBLY HARAM!

[quote=Yasin]We do not know if that email is "private" - it's not right to state this as it creates a bad impression of him. The email may be shared by the Majlis and accessible by more than just him.

Are you 100% sure that it's 100% private between the two? "...then you corresponding secretly (without witness) with a Na-Mehram" - If you are 100% sure and know this for a fact then by all means you can make that point but as long as it's an assumption based on common email uses then it is a major statement. Comparing it to a forum due to his ruling on Forums being Haraam is another matter. This is more about the comparison of his use of emails privately.

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#128 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2014 17:05

Yasin wrote:

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I can employ the tactics of Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA)'s Mureeds and point out the conditional nature of my statement clearly evident, but I won't.

I didn't word my statement correctly, I was wrong and I am Sorry.

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#129 [Permalink] Posted on 16th May 2014 00:09

Salaams.

Brother Muadh, I'm a little confused with this statement:

Islamic forums aren't Haram as I explained to you that if your posting and Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) replying with 10,000 people publicly witnessing the exchange is Haram then you corresponding secretly (without witness) with a Na-Mehram is DOUBLY HARAM!

Exchanging messages on a forum with a ghair-mehram while many readers are able to view or witness the exchange makes it haram? If that's the case then aren't we all guilty? I thought it's the other way around if there is a conversation (relevant and appropriate of course) between the 2 parties that's not private (hence many reads can read the exchanges), and therefore being deemed acceptable.

Pardon me if I'm being thick.

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#130 [Permalink] Posted on 16th May 2014 01:59

Muadh_Khan wrote:

You don't need major knowledge to be able to write down a question correctly, firstly.
[/quote]

That might be just my bad English.

Muadh_Khan wrote:

Secondly, you need to be to analyse the Fatwa and then analyse the repurcussions, for example:

Reporting a post to Maulana Yasin (HA) is Gheebah and Haram

Every man who comes home and tells his wife about something at work would be Gheebah and Haram and it would be Haram for the wife to console the husband

[/quote]

Got it.

I know these are not ghiba. Thats why I didn't inquire about it. I inquired about other things because I was not clear on that.

Muadh_Khan wrote:

Commenting/Critique of Islamic websites e.g. of askimam.org would be Gheebah and Haram
Every Professor/Teacher who looks at works of their students could potentially be Gheebah and Haram

[/quote]

Don't get. Sorry.

Muadh_Khan wrote:

Thirdly, you need to act on what you receive.
If the forums are Haram (as Fatwa given) then its game over and the fact that you are still here and discussing shows that your own mind is disagreeing with the
[/quote]

Here's what Mufti A.S. Desai stated about forums: "In fact all these internet forums are basically gheebat forums where every person indulges in gheebat and buhtaan."

Brother, I initially thought the Fatwa doesn't mean 'forums are haram', and I should not visit them. Doesn't it seem so? I could be mistaken but please see once again what fatwa sates. Thank you.

Muadh_Khan wrote:

If you have chosen your email address as a sign of love, respect and devotion to Sayyida Maria (RA) there is nothing wrong with it and carry on
[/quote]

Jazakallahu khairan for clearing that up. I Inquired about it I thought there might be something I that didn't know. I also got the point what Maulana Yasin kindly stated in his post.

[quote="Muadh_Khan"]What the Brother has done in this scenario isn't fundamentally Gheebah and if you disagree move on with it because its action and if its case and your scenario please act on the Fatwa (which you see fit)

Alright. Jazakallahu khairan.
I'd simply follow the fatwas I got from Muftiyan.

[quote="Muadh_Khan"]This is just written to ease your confusion if you want to carry on firing questions please continue.

Jazakallahu khairan for taking the time to write it.

[quote="Muadh_Khan"]Sister has understood it clearly but she obviously won't reply and just brush it aside.

I don't brush aside what you stated. The convo bewteen you and Maulana Yasin helped a lot. Jazakumullahu khairan to both.

[quote="Yasin"]However, the sender does have private email compared to forum so I see your point too.

I ask about legal Islamic matter.
Mufti's email isn't private so what I'm sending to Mufti and what receiving from Mufti is also not private completely.
I send to "Mufti" (not just any ordinary man) his Taqwa can't let me behave unIslamically. If I do, they would stop me from sending them.

[quote="Imam Ali"]Exchanging messages on a forum with a ghair-mehram while many readers are able to view or witness the exchange makes it haram? If that's the case then aren't we all guilty? I thought it's the other way around if there is a conversation (relevant and appropriate of course) between the 2 parties that's not private (hence many reads can read the exchanges), and therefore being deemed acceptable.

Brother, you misunderstood.
The brother meant to say, exchange on Mufti Abu Hair's Forum is better than asking question via email from Mufti. Because 10,000 people publicly witnessing the exchange between ghair mahram on the forum, whilst thats not the case with asking question from Mufti via email.

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#131 [Permalink] Posted on 16th May 2014 09:47

Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:

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You have raised a very significant point in your post and I hope that you do think about this and ask for clarification if you don't understand before you walk away from this matter for the sake of your Islam.

This is what I said (in general)

You asking on a public forum about an Islamic query and Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) replying for 10,000 people to see
You asking in an email and a Mufti replying to you in an email and this exchange can be private or can be public (as Maulana has clarified) but IN NO WAY the same as public forum (and I mean something like Sunniforum where the interaction between Ghair-Mehram isn't even possible)

Before we discuss any further do you understand 1 & 2 clearly?

Jzk

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#132 [Permalink] Posted on 16th May 2014 09:58

Joking around with the opposite gender on the forums would definitely not be Islamic. There is a lot of inappropriate behaviour that needs to be curtailed. It is not appropriate to post smileys or joke around when responding to sisters. One must be very very careful as shaytaan is quick to take advantage. At the same time Mufti Desai's stance is slightly more harsh than needed.

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#133 [Permalink] Posted on 16th May 2014 10:09

london786 wrote:

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Please look at my point 1 & 2 before taking a stance and specific queries and you should have Husnudh-Dhan of Muslims. People at SF and MS try very hard to avoid this and situation is no where close to what you are (wrongly) portraying.

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#134 [Permalink] Posted on 16th May 2014 10:15

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Yes, the situation is not bad and I do have husne dhann of Muslims. I am not saying anything but shaytaan is always there and smileys and joking around with the opposite gender is not acceptable behaviour. Is a smiley and joking around with sisters permissible?

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#135 [Permalink] Posted on 16th May 2014 10:18

london786 wrote:

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Do you see that happening? report it.

Secondly the question you are avoiding is where is a greater chance of Shaytaan interfering on a public forum or in an email (which is usually private or possibly public)?

Where are you likely to misbehave with a Na-Mehram? Sunniforum or in your email or WhatsApp or similar?

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