Gheebah?

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 16:09

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Many a times it is accidental and the member is not even aware of it, especially mobile users. Khair regardless of the thumbs up or down, the clean heart is your work not other peoples reaction.

See my profile, I get more dislikes than you and most of them are from Salafi's and iPhone fans!

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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2014 16:10

abu mohammed wrote:

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There is NO dislike on his post at all between mine and his discussion!

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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 07:24

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Now I think I know the detailed situation of the brother and understood it completely. what respected brother Imam Ali did was gheebah according to my understanding. I forwarded his question to Mufti, will post the reply here whenever I get.

You wrote:
If you were bullied or harassed at work you would also be in serious psychological turmoil and would just like to talk to someone (anyone) to get it off his chest.

Re:

I always considered it as gheebah if the reason is just to get something off ones chest. I don't know why do you say it isn't ghiba. Anyway, I've sent the query to Mufti, I'll post the answer here Insha Allah.

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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 08:56

My perspective on gheebah was always a bit different, meaning not to listen or take part in anything that discussed another person in the slightest. The following incident completely changed my outlook....

Many years ago a local musali got divorced he was in his mid 30's, his wife changed the locks, wouldnt allow him to see his children etc etc. Every day he would come for salah, he became seriously depressed he would try to talk to this brother that brother, nobody was listening to him, nobody wanted to be a part of him doing 'gheebah' of his ex wife, in-laws etc etc. As he became withdrawn brothers labelled him as just being depressed and left him to his own devices.

It was soon announced that the brother had committed suicide. In jummuah Bayan the Imam took opportunity which sisters like myself could also hear via the receiver, the following is what the Imam had to say regarding the death of this man...

"It is very sad that one of our musalli brother has come to his death in this manner, we were all aware of his problems, we are quick to judge his action of taking his own life, but look inside each and everyone of us, did we try to help him in any way? did we even listen to what he had to say? their is a fine line between gheebah and listening to someone in distress. Even if we could not change his situation in anyway we could've at least shared his pain by just lending an ear. As a community we should be ashamed of ourselves we are all responsible for his action"

Note: the Imam did not mean we are responsible for this man's actions, he wanted everyone to realize that by listening to someone and giving them hope and comfort we could make a huge difference in someone's life and maybe the incident may not have taken place and completely avoided, but why was the community responsible? Because he was a brother in need and was asking for help by just wanting to talk, and sadly not even one person wanted to listen and share his pain in fear of becoming involved in gheebah.

This incident was an eye opener, that man could've been myself in a deppressive state over an issue, or what if it was my daughter, son, friend, neighbour or a family member?

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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 11:28

Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:

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Sure, knock yourself out by asking a Mufti.

He said it's not Gheebah because I was describing someone's action to another not slandering or ridiculing the brother in anyway. I think he was quite plain and clear.

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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 15:57

Imam Ali wrote:

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I know what he said. You're free to follow your friend.

And what I said, describing someone's ''wrong action'' behind his back to others is ghibah, no matter you insult or ridicule him or not. Describing others bad deeds is not a good job in any way, which makes it ghibah.

In your case you described the 'wrong action' of one of your friends to the other one just because the other one asked about the incident out of 'curiosity'. so That's ghibah according to my understanding of ghibah.

The reason I asked mufti, I want to know where my understanding of ghibah is wrong. After getting a fatwah I'll simply follow whatever Mufti says.

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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 18:05

بسم الله الرحمن اللرحيم

I am quoting from Umdat us Salik.

P.s. Below the word slander means backbiting, not slander as in saying something that doesn't exist.

PERMISSIBlE SLANDER
r2.16 Slander, though unlawful, is sometimes permissible for a lawful purpose, the legitimating factor being that there is some aim countenanced by Sacred Law that is unattainable by other means. This may be for one of six reasons.

1) REDRESSING GRIEVANCES
The first is the redress of grievances. Someone wronged may seek redress from the Islamic ruler,
judge, or others with the authority or power to help one against the person who has wronged one.
One may say, "So-and-so has wronged me," "done such and such tome,"
"took such and such of mine," and similar remarks.

2) ELIMINATING WRONGDOING
The second is seeking aid in righting a wrong or correcting a wrongdoer, such as by saying
to someone expected to be able to set things right, "So-and-so is doing such and such, so warn
him not to continue," and the like. The intention in such a case must be
to take the measures necessary to eliminate the wrong,
for if this is not one's purpose, it is unlawful.

3) ASKING FOR A LEGAL OPINION
The third is asking for a legal opinion, such as by saying to the mufti,
"My father [or "brother," or "So-and-so,"] has wronged me by doing such and such. May he do so or not?"
"How can I be rid of him," "get what is coming to me," "stop the injustice," and so forth.
Or such as saying, "My wife does such and such to me," "My husband does such and such," and the like.
This is permissible when necessary, but to be on the safe side it is best to say,
"What do you think of a man whose case is such and such," or
"a husband [or "wife"] who does such and such," and so on, since
this accomplishes one's aim without referring to particular people.
But it is nevertheless permissible to identify a particular person,
as is attested to by the hadith in which Hind said,
"O Messenger of Allah:saw:, Abu Sufyan is a stingy man ... "
and the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) did not forbid her.

4)WARNING MUSLIMS OF EVIL
The fourth reason is to warn Muslims of evil and advise them, which may take several forms, including:

(a) Impugning unreliable hadith transmitters or court witnesses, which is permissible by
consensus of all Muslims, even obligatory, because of the need for it.

(b) When a person seeks one's advice about marrying into a certain family,
entering into a partnership with someone, depositing something for safekeeping with him,
accepting such a deposit, or some other transaction with him,
it is obligatory for one to tell the person asking what one knows about the other by way of advising him.
If one can accomplish this by merely saying, "Dealing with him is of no advantage to you,"
"Marrying into the family is not in your interests," "Do not do it," and similar expressions,
then one may not elaborate on the individual's shortcomings.
But if it cannot be accomplished without explicitly mentioning the individual, one may do so.

(c) When one notices a student of Sacred Law going to learn from a teacher who is guilty of
reprehensible innovations in religious matters (bid'a) or who is corrupt, and one
apprehends harm to the student thereby, one must advise him and explain how the teacher
really is. It is necessary in such a case that one intend to give sincere counsel. Mistakes are sometimes
made in this, as the person warning another may be motivated by envy, which the Devil has
duped him into believing is heartfelt advice and compassion, so one must beware of this.

(d) And when there is someone in a position of responsibility who is not doing the job as it
should be done, because of being unfit for it, corrupt, inattentive, or the like, one must mention
this to the person with authority over him so he can remove him and find another to do the job
properly, or be aware of how he is so as to deal with him as he should be dealt with and not be
deluded by him, to urge him to either improve or else be replaced.

5)SOMEONE UNCONCERNED WITH CONCEALING THEIR DISOBEDIENCE
A fifth reason that permits slander is when the person is making no effort to conceal his corruption
or involvement in reprehensible innovation (bid'a), such as someone who openly drinks
wine, confiscates others' property, gathers taxes uncountenanced by Sacred Law,
collects money wrongfully, or perpetrates other falsehoods, in which cases it is permissible to speak about what
he is unconcerned to conceal, but unlawful to mention his other faults unless there is some other
valid reason that permits it, of those we have discussed.

6)IDENTIFICATION
The sixth reason is to identify someone. When a person is known by a nickname such as
"the Bleary-eyed," "the Lame," "the Deaf," "the Blind," "the Cross-eyed," or similar, it is
permissible to refer to him by that name if one's intention is to identify him.
It is unlawful to do so by way of pointing out his deficiencies. And if one can identify him by some other means, it is better.

r2.23 These then, are six reasons Islamic scholars mention that permit slander in the above cases (al-Adhkar (y102), 455-69).

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 19:58

Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:

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Yeah, I think you're understanding of gheebah is quite skewed to say the least.

Please do share with us your findings.

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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 20:15

Please respect each other's views and opinions. Please speak respectfully to each other regardless of what your opinions maybe or may not be.

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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 7th May 2014 20:41

askimam.org/public/question_detail/1814.html

Question

If something is really bothering you...Say you had a stressful day at work, or someone was unfair with you and this problem is really bothering you...if you discuss the details of this problem with your wife, and you tell her how you feel about the problem and how you feel that so and so person was unfair with you and has really upset you...is this considered backbiting? Where do we draw the line between stating the facts and backbiting? Sometimes I find it difficult to keep every single thing that involves a third party cooped up inside.

Answer

The underlying reason for the prohibiyion of backbiting is to disgrace and humiliate the person.If one complains about the unfair treatment given to him/her at work, with the intention of relieving the pressure from oneself, that is not regarded as backbiting.

And Allah Ta'ala knows best

Mufti E. Desai

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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 8th May 2014 01:38

Taalibah wrote:

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Arslan. wrote:

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I didn't know that. Jazakumullahu khairan for the enlightenment.

Imam Ali wrote:

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I forwarded the question to respected Mufti A.S. Desai:

Assalamu alaikum respected Mufti,

Here OP asked this;

#1 [Permalink] Posted on 29th April 2014 22:22
Salaams.
I'm always weary of this when speaking about others to other people. I do not want my good deeds to go waste.
There was a situation today at work where a brother kept teasing me by referring to me by an English name (he was somewhat abbreviating my real name). I told asked him politely to stop and he said he would.
Another brother was curious to what the conversation was about as it seemed a little intense to him. So, I told him what he was doing and that we've settled it now, but I know the brother responsible would not have appreciated me having said that without his consent.
I didn't say anything nasty about him, though.
Can this be regarded as backbiting?

I want to know the answer to this question please answer. Jazakallahu khairan.

Respected Mufti's Response:

you had committed gheebat (back-biting) by discussing the first male with the second male.

Was-salaam

A.S. Desai

For

Mujlisul Ulama of S.A.

------------------------

P.S: waiting for the answers to other questions I posted. will share the answer whenever I get.

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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 8th May 2014 01:54

Respected sister Maria,

JazaakAllah for posting your Q and A from Maulanaa A.S. Desai. I was not sure if the fatwa I had posted applied to the OP's situation (since it specifically mentions "with the intention of relieving the pressure"), but I posted it anyway since it was the closest fatwa I could find to the scenario at hand.

That being said, I do feel as of now that Maulana's fatwa is correct, as he answered according to the exact scenario. The fatwa I posted should not be taken as the answer for the OP's specific case.

Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:

P.S: waiting for the answers to other questions I posted. will share the answer whenever I get.

Yes, please do insha'Allah.

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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 8th May 2014 02:07

Arslan. wrote:

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Yes, exactly.

In his question OP didn't say anything like that he was describing the incident "with the intention of relieving the pressure" etc. he just said that his friend was curious. so of course what Respected Mufti said is correct according to the context.

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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 8th May 2014 10:05

The main thing to remember is that Gheebah is "When you say something about someone (in their face or behind their back) and it would hurt their feelings if they were to hear it"

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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2014 13:13

Imam Ali wrote:

My Question:

On the forum some people are saying that if we describe the bad deeds of others but do not insult or ridicule them, then It'll not be ghibah. Is that really so?

Answer:

ASSALAMU ALAIKUM

8 Rajab 1435 (8 May 2014)

Maria

Your e-mail dated 7 May 2014 refers.

In fact all these internet forums are basically gheebat forums where
every person indulges in gheebat and buhtaan. What they say is
baseless. Speaking ill about a person is gheebat even if the statement
about him/her is true.

Was-salaam

A.S. Desai

For

Mujlisul Ulama of S.A.

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