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#121 [Permalink] Posted on 19th July 2020 19:35

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Little Note: I checked the Turkish tweet you have posted about Imam Birgivi rahimahullah, although i did initally find his words harsh, i realized what he is referring to. Humble note though, be careful about Turkish scholars and Ulama.

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#122 [Permalink] Posted on 19th July 2020 19:50

TÃ¼rk KÄ±zÄ± wrote:

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But something is better than nothing innit?

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Ø§Ù„Ø¥Ø³Ù„Ø§Ù…Ù ÛŒÙŽØ¹Ù’Ù„ÙÙˆ ÙˆÙŽÙ„ÙŽØ§ ÛŒÙØ¹Ù’Ù„ÛŒÙ°

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#123 [Permalink] Posted on 19th July 2020 19:53

bint e aisha wrote:

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Dear sister you have be to critical, you have to pressure such person, you cannot simply say he is best out of all. You cannot simply support someone who is openly calling shias as Muslims (naudubillah). He feels reform is needed on Islam. This is how majority of Turks feel but we wont improve if you dont pressure and demand.

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#124 [Permalink] Posted on 21st July 2020 10:20

TÃ¼rk KÄ±zÄ± wrote:

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Beautiful post.

This is the type of information I am looking for not only about Turkey but any location in the Islamic world. Thank you Turk Daughter.

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Muslim Ummah aspires to attain a rightful and honored place among the civilizations of the world and make our proportionate contribution towards international peace, progress and happiness of humanity.

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#125 [Permalink] Posted on 21st July 2020 10:38

TÃ¼rk KÄ±zÄ± wrote:

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As wonderful as the earlier post.

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#126 [Permalink] Posted on 21st July 2020 10:40

TÃ¼rk KÄ±zÄ± wrote:

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Informative post again. Thank you sister.

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#127 [Permalink] Posted on 21st July 2020 22:55

Maripat wrote:

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Maripat wrote:

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Maripat wrote:

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Ø§ÙŽÙ„Ø³ÙŽÙ‘Ù„Ø§ÙŽ Ù…Ù Ø¹ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙŠÙ’ÙƒÙÙ…Ù’ ÙˆÙŽØ±ÙŽØÙ’Ù…ÙŽØ©Ù Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡Ù ÙˆÙŽØ¨ÙŽØ±ÙŽÙƒÙŽØ§ ØªÙÙ‡Ù

Brother Maripat wa iyyakum, I hope it shed light to Turkey's current situation. If there are any questions, i try my best to answer it. Im not expert on Turkey but i wanted to share what i had been observing, to shed light about Turkey as unfortunately, political trolls and even news outlets are misleading and makes you think that things are actually so well. Also i wanted to give a different view. Many do not agree with me. This is their choice but certain words cannot be ignored under 'he is the best out there.' Unfortunately many dont include those details which they think dont have impact. Some things actually have direct effect (neoliberalism) although may be ignored or not even considered as a reason. You need to understand Turkey by looking at its history throughout time (1923 - 2020). You cannot simply cut one part from the history. This is another manipulation technique. The Hagia Sofia Adhan is a very good example. Now one can imagine how many things presented by Turkey's news outlets are free from manipulation? This is not specific to Turkey but all the news outlets are like this.

Mainly Turks are the ones who are influencing non Turks know as we Turks know English better than before. (My English may not be so well. I try to correct my sentences when i see they dont fit properly to English. Please do if certain sentences i have written arent clear.) So as Turk i wanted to share my own observations online.

Humble Note: My messages may sound pessimistic and imply to doubt everything. However respected brothers and sisters, we need to question the news that we are reading and people whom we are following on Turkey or any other country. Otherwise we will be stuck with the goods presented to us but forget open statements (in Turkey forexample statement on alawites ) mentioned by them. Please stay away from those people who do not criticise any government even for once but on the other hand please also stay away from those people who criticise due to having secularist mindset (you understand it when you read it.) There needs to be a balance.

Final note: You may say 'other Muslim leaders are worst, Turkey stands up, thats why Turkey is the best.' This mindset is exactly what Turks want you to feel. This is actually Neo - Ottomanism all about on society level or even on individual level. What i say may be so abstract to you but we need to get out from this mindset otherwise these same people will eventually make us lose our Deeni values under the name of he (they) is (are) the best out there. Forexample you would never call shia a Muslim but as long as you support such a person or people, you will eventually be okay to everything they do. This is why we shouldnt accept everything in news.

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#128 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2020 08:08

TÃ¼rk KÄ±zÄ± wrote:

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We understood your earlier posts sister and this one too. Thank you for the valuable inputs.

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#129 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2020 18:55

Maripat wrote:

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Brother Maripat Wa iyyakum.

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Brother Muadh i found something about Ilmihal you have asked me earlier. I dont know if this will answer your question but according to the Islamic Encyclopedia managed by Diyanet, Ilmihal has gone through several changes throughout time starting from late Ottoman era. The most widely accepted Ilmihal known as MÄ±zraklÄ± Ilmihal was written in 16 century. This Ä°lmihal was taught everywhere and read at homes in the Ottoman times. According to the Encyclopedia this Ilmihal's influence reached till modern Turkey. During Reformist era MÄ±zraklÄ± Ä°lmihal and other books on Islam was widely criticised for containing superstitutions and stories and being inadequate. As a result new Ilmihals were written and published. Different authors wrote different Ilmihals during in the late Ottoman era.Republic era Ä°lmihals only covered main topics, such as belief, acts of worship, manners and daily life dealings. Two famous Ä°lmihals: Ä°slÃ¢m Dini by Ahmet Hamdi Akseki (he is the 3th President of Religious Affairs (Diyanet) and BÃ¼yÃ¼k Ä°slÃ¢m Ä°lmihali by Ã–mer Nasuhi Bilmen were widely published till 1980s and example for the newly published Ilmihals. Also special Ä°lmihals were published specifically depending on the topic. According to Encyclopedia, Ilmihals are generally based on essential sources and containing reliable information.

Personal opinion: I would not recommend anyone to read Ä°lmihals, they are variety of Ilmihals published by different authors. Now Diyanet's views is known. Diyanet may sound different compared to previous times but forexample, still it is calculating Islamic dates. We dont have moon sightening system

For Turkish speakers full source: https://islamansiklopedisi.org.tr/ilmihal

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#130 [Permalink] Posted on 31st July 2020 14:11

What is Neo-Ottomanism in Detail?

Neo-Ottomanism is a mixture of Ottaman, Turan and Islamic movement which goes back to the late Ottoman era.

In the late Ottoman era due to the influence of modernism but also weakening of the Empire, Ottoman intellectuals tried to find ideology that would unite people and save the empire from breaking apart. The three movements emerged at the time was;

Ottomanism - This movement takes every citizen whether Muslim or non Muslim under one banner.
Turanism - Turkic movement, their aim is to take Turkic nations or Turkic ethnic groups under one banner. (Turanism is the founding ideology of ultranationalist party MHP. They have reverance to Enver Pasha according to them Enver Pasha fought for Turan cause.)
Islamic Movement (they call this Political Islam in academia) - Muslims are one Banner.

When Republic was formed ataturk's circles were discussing a Turkish identity. atatuturk's Turkish identity was mixed with ottomanism and turanism. Thats why in Turkey until recent times it was difficult to track your true identity. ataturk had taken non Turks and Turks under one banner and called them as a Turk. You may not be Turk but legally you were. This is how Kurdish population was tried to Turkified by kemalist regime. Such brutal oppression was done to Kurds. They were taken out from their homes. They were sent to other cities. They were banned from speaking their language. If they had they would be fined. Unfortunately due to heavy nationalism in Turkey, many Turks dont want to even hear about the oppression done to Kurds under Kemalist regime. They think we Kurds and Turks were okay untill PKK came. Majority of Kurdish people today support PKK and take abdullah Ã¶calan as their ataturk in Southeast Anatolia because of the heavy oppression they that was pelted to them throughout Turkish Republic. PKK is a terrorist group but it is Turkish people who are responsible pushing Kurds to these people. Kurds were our most loyal ally. We Turks need to question why majority of Kurds are supporting PKK. They are those, Kurds who dont support PKK but they are minority. Majority of Kurds whether they are PKK supporter or not, want to separate from Turkey. We Turks need to ask why they feel so like this?

Coming back to ataturk's nationalism idea, you would be surprised that his nationalism also included Islam. One may ask why how so? Because in the end of the day, Islam was the dominant belief in Turks. He couldnt take it out from his nationalism. But... Islam was on the surface. ataturk's nationalism concept was more inclined towards Turanism. The early nationalism works dont include Islam, they focus mostly on idendity of Turks. You would see in those days, Turk's older past interested intellectuals and work on Turk's old Turkic past would be published. One to note, ataturk's nationalism was antithesis to Islamic identity. He and his elites did what they could to implement full nationalism to general public. However as i have early stated, Turks in those days were not inclined to this full nationalistic idea. Thats why initial nationalism idea of Alparslan TÃ¼rkeÅŸ also failed and he was forced to add Islamic elements to his party.

1990s is very important time for the formation of future Neo-Ottomanism because in those days, a thesis emerged within certain intellectuals known TÃ¼rk - Islam Sentezi (Turk - Islam Synthesis). This synthesis mainly argues that nationalism and Islam are not separate from each other and that they can go together. Turk - Islam Synthesis is one of the reasons why today ultranationalist MHP has allied with erdogan. If one knows MHP especially their grass-root organizations (ÃœlkÃ¼cÃ¼ OcaklarÄ±) they will know that, in these organizations or lounges they propagate old Turkic history along with Ottoman past. You would be surprise that in these lounges Quran e Kareem lessons are taught as well. Today's MHP is a manifestation of Turk - Islam Synthesis. Deen is basically a ritual on the surface just to colour the eyes of naive Turks. They will still propagate old Turkish past. You understand it from their posts on social media although they try to sound in between. Among influential writers who propagated this ideology was Nurrettin TopÃ§u. I have personally seen he is praised by one particular popular 'pro-Ottoman' historian whom Deendar Turks follow. This ideology contradicts Islam but unfortunately it is sugar coated such that it is seen as patriotic by majority of Turks.

Neo-Ottomanism's backbone comes from liberalism emerged in 1980s. When akp came to power, erdogan implemented neoliberal policies one by one, by privatization, slum house removal projects, removing hijab ban from public sector (i have explained in detail the reason why consequences had happened and effected Islamic struggle in Turkey (please refer to my old post.)

When actual Neo-Ottomanism emerged between 2010 - 2011, It combined liberalism and Turk - Islam Synthesis. These TV series, especially Ottoman history interest became wide spread. Ottoman history part sounds very nice but, as i have mention in one thread, most Ottoman history is written by modernists and and those who try to sound different, their background goes back modernist faculties they have graduated from. Thats why today, even those same 'different' historians still cite Ottoman history 'authorities.'

The question i think all of us are wondering, im also wondering is why Turkish Ulama are silent to Neo-Ottomanism?

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