When Mosques become fashion houses...

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2013 09:01

Assalaamu 'Alaykum

Thoughts on this... Some have called this particular Mosque a "monument"...

When mosques become fashion houses: Photoshoot at Midrand mosque raises eyebrows

Sakeena Suliman - Cii News | 28 October 2013

All parties concerned are tight lipped on how a photo shoot for a Pretoria based designer's "Eid ul Adha collection" took place at the Nizamiye Masjid in Midrand.

Khatoon Moosa launched her LoveFashionKM studio and Eid ul Adha abaya collection on October 6 this year. Framed photos of models posing outside the Turkish owned masjid were displayed at the "exclusive afternoon" event. Pictures of models clad in abayas, with and without a head scarf were taken inside and outside the masjid.

A week later twitter frenzied with twitterers expressing disapproval of the photo shoot saying it infringed the sanctity of the sacred space. "A fashion shoot inside the Nizamiye mosque to advertise Eid abayas for sale. What is WRONG with people?" tweeted @Qudsiya. "I don't believe they are very appropriate... look fashionable, but not really appropriate!" responded @Izzarian to journalist Khadija Patel, who questioned how permission for such a shoot was authorised.

When asked by Patel on October 10, Aydin Inal, Regional Director of the Horizon Educational Trust (HET) known for fostering good relations between South Africa and Turkey, said on the social network he did not know how a fashion shoot was allowed to take place at the masjid.

"Just spoke to the project manager there. He says someone called for permission but they did not allow it," he tweeted. He said an investigation would take place after making management aware of the online pictures and tweeted "IA. It seems these people took a chance. They would never allow such a thing."

But a comment on an October 11 open letter penned to Patel because of the largely negative reactions her Twitter queries caused, indicated otherwise. In his post Muhammed Moosa, Moosa's brother wrote "... I feel compelled to clear up a couple of aspects to make sure the general public is not misinformed.
A couple of people commented and suggested that permission was not received from the Masjid. In fact, permission was explicitly granted by the Masjid."

The scathing letter penned by Moosa's friend, Yousuf Ebrahim criticised the manner in which Patel addressed the situation and the "overwhelming proportion of our society of South African Muslims" who allegedly obtain enjoyment "from the trouble of others".

When contacted by Cii Radio on October 26, Nizamiye's Imam Ebrahim said he was unable to answer questions and did not know when he had time in his calendar to do so. When asked if he had enough time just to clear up whether permission was in fact given, he said he didn't and would respond to us by mail. No response has so far been received.

Similarly, no feedback has been received by Moosa's uncle who contacted Cii Radio and said he would respond to questions via email since the designer was in Dubai and was unable to do so.

In his comment, Moosa further wrote that no intention was made to disrespect or blaspheme the Islamic place of prayer. "It was an attempt to promote a business whose aim is also to promote Islamic wear in these modern times. Needless to say, the issue of Islamic fashion is a controversial one. Thus when we think about an issue like this, it is important that we compartmentalise the two issues: the issue of Islamic fashion and the issue relating to the use of the Masjid."

Cii Radio's Mufti Abdul Kader Hoosain said modelling and taking photos of such a nature was "desecration of the masjid. It is completely haraam and a sign of Qiyaamah."

During this month pop star Rihanna was asked to leave the Sheikh Zayed Grand masjid in Abu Dhabi because she did not have permission for a photo shoot. She was reportedly asked by the masjid's staff to leave the compound after her actions were considered to be at odds with the 'sanctity' of the site.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2013 13:15

I'm just baffled at how a movement like the Gulen movement sprung up and spread like wild-fire among Turks and others around the world. The Gulen movement is one I personally choose to keep my distance from for many of the reasons highlighted in the linked article.

No comment on the photoshoot.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2013 13:30

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Assalaamu 'Alaykum

Sister, are you aware of the Gulen movement and its ideology? Since this Mosque sprung up along with a whole host of Turkish schools have we started hearing about the Gulen movement however there is not much material available regarding the ideology of Gulen.

It would be useful if you (or anyone else) can summarise the ideology of Gulen so that it can become clear what brand of Islam Gulenism promotes.

Jazakallah khayr

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2013 13:56

Waalaikumussalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu:

Brother afriki_haqq, I have not studied the movement in any detail. They have some resources online and perhaps the best way to find out would be to at least try to contact them directly or to access their sources and come to a balanced conclusion that way. Either way, if I was a member of a community where they sprung up seemingly out-of-nowhere, I'd be quite worried and want to know how and why.

I am not from this movement and, as a Turk, I feel compelled to say this every time not because anyone (here) doubts me but because somehow they've become synonymous with being a Turkish Muslim! :( Some in my own family have raised questions about my practicing Islam, stating (rather than questioning) that I had been brain-washed by the movement when in fact, I've never had contact with them nor do I want to. That should tell you how strongly secularists in Turkey oppose this movement. That said, my keeping a distance is not as a counter-reaction to what my family assume but rather because I genuinely have doubts about the movement and would rather keep a safe distance and watch from where I'm at. Cowardly? Perhaps.

Anyway, the movement seems to draw a lot of attention from all concerned (and only from them - otherwise they are praised by others):

not every practicing Turkish Muslim is a Fetullahci and others like me view them with suspicion (as wrong as that may be, it is the truth);
they appear to have a huge following both in and outside of Turkey;
they just pop up and draw lots of money into areas where certain efforts have been ongoing for decades - don't they communicate and try to collaborate or anything? It just seems like one minute all is well, business as usual and the next minute a mosque is erected and a school is opening up... what? That is really very weird to me and I find it really hard to resist being suspicious. This is why it is imperative to know more about this group - especially in areas where people have been striving and struggling in various efforts only to have someone else move in relatively suddenly, relatively quietly, and determined to do things their own way. In this sense, in addition to other reasons, since they are undermining traditional approaches, they are viewed as modernist.
aside from their quiet and sudden approach, their views, actions and appearances seem to elicit negative reactions from traditional Muslims.

Sorry, that's all I have to offer. If I come across anything in the future, I'll share here insha'Allah.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2013 17:47

بسم الله الرحمن اللرحيم

This post is about the building mentioned here, in the OP.

The following are my notes taken from a promo-interview video on the project with Ali Katırcıoğlu, the humble (masha'Allah) elderly businessman from a very humble background in Turkey, who funded this külliye¹ project apparently on his own. Though he won't give numbers, Mr. Katırcıoğlu says some interesting things which are noted below. Everything that was presented in the promo-interview was followed up with shukr to Allah Ta'aala and it was highlighted how events progressed almost miraculously (my word, not his though it was insinuated) and in ways that were not known or intended.

Mr. Katırcıoğlu made a vow to Allah Ta'aala that he would put a certain percentage of his income aside solely for charity to give shukr to all He has blessed him with, acknowledging that there is no way for him to properly show his gratitude, and he has been doing so since 1967. He says, "the more I gave, the more Allah Ta'aala gave me alhamdulillah" masha'Allah. May Allah Ta'aala accept his sincere acts of charity, ameen.
Mr. Katırcıoğlu was saddened to see that the Ottoman influence had not reached certain parts of the world and initially wanted to and intended to build the külliye in the US. He tried for 3 years, going to and from the US, only to meet with obstacles every time.
Mr. Katırcıoğlu then decided on South Africa and within 1 week, he was able to do in South Africa what he couldn't do in the US over the span of 3 years - get permission to move ahead.
While it would take another 2-2.5 years to get the project through (Mr. Katırcıoğlu says the bureaucracy in South Africa is very slow), in the end not a single point in the project was opposed or changed due to any planning/permit issues.
The architect, Ahmed Saber Bham, was recommended to Mr. Katırcıoğlu after he tried in vain to find one in the area to take on the project. Feeling defeated, he turned to his friend Makkah one day, explaining the situation while crying over the phone, and shortly thereafter he was able to secure a Muslim architect for the project.
After the initial struggles, the project progressed smoothly and many workers would come to Mr. Katırcıoğlu - he didn't have to go searching for anyone. For example, one worker came saying "I'm a plasterer, I'll do the plaster" another "I build walls, I'll build the walls" and so on.
Other Muslim business men in the area (non-Turks) also took interest and worked on promoting the project in their communities.
Mr. Katırcıoğlu also consulted with prominent South African figures like Mandela about the külliyeproject.
The külliye project reflects Mr. Katırcıoğlu's vision - bringing Anatolia to other parts of the world, including the cuisine (in a restaurant and cafeteria to be located in the külliye) and merchandise (to be sold in the shops in the külliye). All profits from the stores are to be redirected to the day-to-day running of the mosque.
The külliye also includes a medical clinic - as suggested by Mandela.
The school on site is modeled after the Anadolu Imam Hatip schools in Turkey - with a capacity of 800 students and 300 boarders.
In the külliye, the Imam Hatip school was the first to open to service.
For the current Imam Hatip students of the külliye, Mr. Katırcıoğlu intends to next build a university modelled after the Ilahiyat Fakultesi in Turkey.
The premier of the area (a woman) has been very helpful in the project and Mr. Katırcıoğlu refers to her as his spiritual daughter.
It appears, the premier suggested she wanted to be the first to use the conference facilities at the külliye by holding a premiers meeting there - which is apparently unheard of in any mosque around the world.
The külliye is huge and very prominent where it is located on top of a hill; the minarets are lit up at night. There is absolutely no missing the külliye nor is there any possibility that anyone who looks at it and has some knowledge of world history wouldn't immediately recognize it as a mosque with Ottoman influence.

Mr. Katırcıoğlu makes shukr to Allah Ta'aala for everything and says he would be honoured if he can even be a lowly servant at the külliye - that is what falls on us, servitude.

I tried to be unbiased and only presented in point form some of the things I heard during the interview (in a promo-video).

May Allah Ta'aala make this project a means for good in the area, and may He grant us all forgiveness, hidayaah, taqwa and ilm, and may He grant us understanding, humility and kindheartedness, and grant us all a death on imaan. Ameen.

¹Külliye is a Turkish word (Arabic origin) meaning "a collection of buildings of an institution, usually composed of schools, a mosque, lunatic asylum, hospital, kitchen, etc." (source: Redhouse Turkish-English)

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2013 18:14

Here is the official site for the Gulen movement: fgulen.com/en/

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2013 18:37

I don't understand how and why Fetullah G�len is considered an Islamic scholar. I couldn't find anything from his background that would suggest the necessary prerequisites for such a title.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2013 05:37

Here is the text from an article on ABC Australia:

~~~

The G�len movement's mysterious role in modern Turkey

Is the G�len movement an interfaith charity, a trans-national corporation, a political lobby group or a slickly branded wing of modern Islam? In some ways, it's all of these things, and its success around the world shows how naive we often are about the intentions of institutions claiming solidarity with pluralist Turkey, as Margaret Coffey reports.

Just this week anti-capitalist Muslims set up in Taksim Square in Istanbul, to argue against US intervention in Syria. They were there before, in support of the June demonstrations against Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan, leading prayers among the demonstrators. And during Ramadan, they initiated communal iftar meals, with 'ground tables' for all to share laid the length of Istanbul streets.

But a far more influential and organised-although often little considered-force in Turkish politics was notably absent from the protests: the neo-liberal Muslims who are known domestically as the G�len movement.

Although the neo-liberal Muslims of Turkey certainly weren't in Taksim Square, many of them were not too far away, at a gathering of Turkish industrialists and business men building 'trade bridges' to the rest of the world to the tune of a likely US $5 billion. And their leader, Fethullah G�len, took to his various media outlets to castigate the youth who acted 'so unreasonably' on the streets. Those words registered-if only because so many people suffered for their so-called unreasonable actions. (Eight people died, twelve people each lost an eye, over 8000 were injured, and a considerable number of people are facing lengthy jail sentences.)

For an elderly cleric, who lives in Pennsylvania in the United States, and who hasn't been seen in Turkey for 15 years, they were not however unsurprising words.

That's because Fethullah G�len and his movement have had a vested interest in the political equilibrium of Turkey's Islamist AKP government. That government has provided the social and regulatory space within which the G�len movement has prospered-and the movement in turn, through its support and engagement, has enabled the security of the Erdogan led government. Until now, that is. There are reports of tensions between the Turkish Prime Minister and the G�len movement and some heated exchanges between key figures have been reported in the media. These tensions may yet have real political effects, say on the future leadership of the government party-the story is still unfolding.

Now not too many people in Australia are up to speed on all this-even though the G�len movement is active in this country and influential and eminent figures in government, politics, academia, the police and the judiciary are associated with its activities. For example, though they don't declare it on their websites, organisations such as the Australian Intercultural Society, AIS, in Victoria, or Affinity Intercultural Foundation, AIF, in NSW, are parts of this trans-national movement.

An extraordinary array of people has been recruited to G�len movement association, though very often it seems they are oblivious of Fethullah G�len or to the domestic Turkish dimensions of the movement. Many if not all these people would have responded, for example, to the Taksim Square and Gezi Park demonstrators with sympathy. Nevertheless, these people have lent their patronage or participation to G�len movement activities such as schools, inter-religious dialogue activities, university conferences and cultural events. They have responded to what a recent scholarly book about the G�len movement calls the G�len brand of 'market Islam' - and they've been susceptible to its extraordinarily successful 'influence peddling'.

Whether they know it or not, or whether they like it or not, these figures have become part of an extraordinary vast marketing enterprise mediating to the world the State of Turkey, Turkish cum G�len movement economic interests, so-called Turkish Islam and a form of Turkish identity most nearly articulated by the current AKP government of Turkey under the leadership of Prime Minister Erdogan.

They may even have lent themselves to a kind of construction of Turkish identity-and Turkish solidarity with Australian national memory of the First World War-that simply won't allow for the recognition of an Armenian genocide in 1915, despite testimony from Australian POWS.

Around the world, Professor Joshua Hendrick says, the G�len brand 'attempts to create itself to be an antithesis, an answer to what many ... in the United States or in Western Europe or perhaps there in Australia refer to as a radical or fundamentalist Islam'.

'The G�len movement offers itself as a more peaceful, a more mystical, a more Sufi, a more Turkish brand of Islam,' Hendrick says.

At the same time, the G�len movement doesn't just produce ideas for its own community of devout Turkish Muslims: it produces goods and services for that community, Hendrick says, along with goods and services for a globally competitive marketplace. It is associated-somewhat ambiguously-with a proliferation of entities, linking sectors such as export, finance, media, education, even the Turkish Journalists and Writers Foundation.

According to Hendrick, 'their firms in Turkey are among the most competitive in their sectors, period'.

They offer products that are of the highest quality and are offered at the most competitive prices. They have used the teachings and employed/redirected the teachings of a charismatic faith leader and have very much become a for-profit-seeking network of hierarchically organised for-profit institutions that exist institutionally autonomous from one another.'

'[T]heir organisational model is very much comparable to a contemporary transnational corporation that has multiple brands, multiple operational centres, production centres that are not entirely dependent at all on one another for the operation of the other. So in this regard, the organisation of the movement in many ways looks like the organisation in many ways of a transnational firm. And it in the same ways that the transnational firm has emerged, morphed and benefited from the structural changes over the past 30 years in the global economy, the G�len movement very much mirrors those changes and successes as well.'

And that way, Hendrick says, it fits more readily into a neo-liberal, capitalist reality. (So much for the 'clash of civilisations' thesis.) It's purpose and function has little to do with the inter-religious dialogue activities it promotes amongst 'VIP' invitees in various Australian environments.

These connections have been accomplished in a surprisingly few years, and Hendrick puts the G�len movement's success down to its method of 'influence-peddling'-a method perfected in Turkey in the years of the movement's emergence, the 1990s, and one 'that has become unbelievably successful, not only in Turkey but certainly in the United States, increasingly elsewhere.'

This includes Australia.

The reasons for its success are complex-but a large factor behind the goodwill and naivety with which the movement is treated comes down to what Hendrick calls a 'deeply simplistic and objectively false understanding that there somehow exists a cultural incompatibility between Islam and western civilisations.' The G�len movement shows the farce of that assumption, he says. At the same time, it deserves an informed and critical analysis. At least that way, much impeded minorities in Turkey, and the country's democratic pluralists, might be better supported by democratic pluralists elsewhere, including in Australia.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2013 12:36

I work at the Nizamiye School. Alhamdullilah I have never met such humble and genuine muslims. South African Indian Muslims need to learn a lot from these people. We are very quick to judge fellow muslims if they don't conform to our ways. The principal and staff win the children over by giving them lots of love. That is exactly what our Nabi Sallalahu Alaihi Wasalam portrayed. I have visited Turkey and went to institutions run by the Gulen Movement and all I could see is the good that this movement does. They serve human kind solely for the pleasure of Allah. How unselfish this is? How may of us can say we belong to an organisation like this? So before we are quick to judge spend time with these people. I wish I had met these people a long time ago. Alhamdullilah these are amazing people!!!!

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2013 20:22

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When did Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) ask a Non-Muslim half-naked woman like Helen O'Grady to come inside the Mosque and teach drama? Do South African Indian Muslims need to learn to invite half-naked women inside their Mosques from half-baked Turkish cults???

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 11th November 2013 23:25

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Your response to the above just shows how uneducated you actually are about the deen. You should get all your facts straight before passing comments or judgement. Remember only Allah has the right to judge.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 12th November 2013 01:52

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Guest sir/madam,
Kindly explain in detail how the brother made a wrong statement and he is uneducated in the light of SHARIAH?
Controlling tounge in Islam is VERY VITAL. In forums, we must control our fingers; you cant judge/argue/debate with someone who talks Haqq.

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..Allah's friends were consistent in Tahajudd and Quran Tilawat..

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 12th November 2013 07:29

Assalaamu 'Alaykum

The Imam responds to the Mosque fashion shoot. (Seems like the Imam was not innocent all along and I wonder if Nabi (salallahu 'alayhi wasallam) would have permitted this kind of fashion shoot in Masjid Nabawi??)

Nizamiye Masjid Fashion Shoot: Imaam responds

Sakeena Suliman - Cii Radio | 08 November 2013/04 Muharram 1434

Midrand's Nizamiye Masjid's Imam has responded to how a fashion shoot for a local designer's abaya collection got to take place at the mosque's premises just before Eid ul Adha.

Imam Ibrahim says permission had only been requested that morning when Khatoon Moosa and her entourage arrived at the masjid.

"I do not know who are these people. One Muslimah lady came in the morning asked permission to take picture with abaayah. She put me on the phone with her father. He asked permission to take pictures. I asked him, 'is it going to be 100% Islamic?'"

The Imam says he gave the permission based on this and trusted Moosa's father. It was only later, after watching what was taking place that he realized otherwise.

"Later on I did not like the way they were taking pictures, even the dresses and the preparation, and asked them (young lady's mother) to finish it immediately and not ask permission again because it will not be granted. I did not like it," said the Imam.

But the designer's father, Ashraf Moosa says the shoot was done "very respectfully".

Moosa would not name who explicitly gave them permission as he did not want to unnecessarily "implicate anyone".

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 12th November 2013 09:51

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Seriously? if i was working at the nizaami school/mosque, out of shame i think i would have drowned myself in the ocean.... or maybe even the toilet.

This 'mosque' is actually a disgrace to islaam. Its the first 'masjid' in SA that has photography on its walls, a see-through curtain between the ladies and men's section, clean shaven imaams, half-nude non-hijaabi women doing fashion shoots, kuffaar being invited and honoured inside the 'masjid' and the list goes on.......... Plz correct me if i'm mistaken...?

It appears that you guys have your own (absurd) version of islaam and the shariah, and as if thats not enough, you expect everyone to be silent and support you...?

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 12th November 2013 09:59

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Helen O'Grady has posted pictures showing her:

Head uncovered
Shoulders uncovered
Arms fully uncovered
Talking to children seated in the rows INSIDE the Masjid.

She is advertising it all over about her visit to the Mosque.

Since I am not South African...

Has she fabricated these pictures?
If she hasn't and the picture evidence is correct; is it allowed for a woman to do so? And under what evidence?

The issue I am rasing has nothing to do with Photoshoot!

Helen O'Grady is a well known Non-Muslim drama teacher came to the Mosque and taught Drama to Muslim kids INSIDE the Masjid and she has her pictures on her facebook page for the world to see and her dress during the class with Muslim children...

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