Flu Vaccination (with porcine) For 2-16yr olds

I know a very good brother who is a Raqi, knows about Hijamah and herbal medicine and he says that the intention is to cure the patient OR alleviate their pain and suffering.

• If a Doctor helps the patients, so be it.
• If a Psychiatrist helps the patients, so be it.
• If a Ruqya helps the patients, so be it.
• If herbs and herbal treatment help the patients, so be it.
• If Hijamah treatment help the patients, so be it.
• If a combination treatment help the patients, so be it.

Do you have confirmed information that these vaccinations are Haram? If so then I guess refer the matter to a competent Mufti because I can't asnwer that. Your (ex) Shaykh has 2 sons with TB in UK and going through treatement for years on end so what would you take the risk with your sons knowing the story of his family? Do you remember the little boy who used to sit in the Majlis, look at him now! Do you want that to happen to your, mine or someone else's son? If you have credible, verified information about vaccinations tell us.

In Pakistan you walk through village after village and witness the effects of Polio. These are not rumours but you can see it with your own eyes and witness it.

Dismissed!

Wikipedia is not a credible site for research. There are Muslim microbiologists and experts in vaccines with Doctorate degrees. What you guys are discussing is goggling and presenting isolated studies. Someone can present studies which make the counter point (very easily)

I only have two observations:

1. Present credible, repeatable studies and demonstrate the issue of vaccines beyond doubt. You may be right and you may be wrong; demonstrate your case to put it beyond doubt.

2. As medical treatment:  Subject "Islamic medicine", treatments and Tassawuff to the same standard as above. Prove beyond doubt that it works and demonstrate it clearly that its effective

I know someone with a Phd in the area, brother is a practising Sunni with Taqwa (with the utmost respect)  why should I take your word or Brother Brooklyn over his? With the utmost respect and dignity and nothing personal

Every time you put your child in the car without a proper cars seat, it’s your child and your decision and I am willing to listen to you if you come to me with evidence that I should also abandon a car seat (car seat is just an analogy so don’t dwell on it).

In summary, If you (or brother Brooklyn) know some practitioners of Islamic medicine who want to put their work to scrutiny we can have universities around the world investigate the methods and their efficacy (same scrutiny which  any medical treatments are put through). Let me reiterate that I neither think medical science is perfect, nor think it has all the answers nor advocate its superiority over every other system of medicine but I do believe that all claims should be put to some scrutiny.

Is that fair or am I asking for something above and beyond reason?

Conspiracy theorists can carry on their discussions on other forums or simply tell us that this is their opinion (and that’s fine).

When it comes to Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) and a few scholars around the world then they have a fanatical adherence and no voice of reason can penetrate hearts and minds of the ardent followers and may Allah (SWT) give Hazrat (HA) long life and immense benefit (Ameen). There are hundreds of studies around the world which PROVE BEYOND DOUBT the ingredients of Coca-Cola and other drinks around the world but he is sticking to his Fatwa (so be it).

Flu vaccines are neither mandated, nor required, nor claimed to be 100% effective in UK. They are recommended for vulnerable patients (children, elders, those with risk factors) and left to the choice of parents while the Government offers full data and disclosure for the parents to make an informed choice.  People ask about these issues all the time and we tell them the facts or even rope in a Muslim doctor and provide all the facts and let the parents decide.

I, my family or children have never had flu vaccines or any other colourful miraculous vaccines popping up on a daily basis. The fact that so many Muslim parents opted to take something which is (experimental at best) i.e. influenza vaccination is a damning indictment of the state of Muslim parents and their knowledge of medical science.

Sister Acacia, you need to look at this discussion in the light of TTP who are killing Muslims, bombing vaccination centres in Pakistan all in the name of vaccination being a tool of Dajjal.

There is a best selling book on Dajjal by Mufti Abu Lubaba Shah Mansoor (HA) hailed on SF reviewed by me and Brother Ansari (because most Deoandees in the west can’t even read urdu) in which he comes up with all sorts of hilarious theories like Dajjal being something like Terminator of Arnold Schwarzenegger who will melt on seeing Sayyidina Isa (AS); written in plain words.

Yes we know about the financial links of the pharmaceutical industry, we also know that many studies are part funded by interested parties who have a certain agenda and stakes in the outcome of those studies and America is notorious for spinning studies. UK Academic standards require the funding and interest of the stakeholders to be fully disclosed (unlike America).

All I ask is to apply the same standards to the claimants of “Islamic medicine and Tassawuff” who regularly and routinely claim all sorts of miracle cures from the pulpits of the Mosques and Islamic lectures. I am sure that you have heard all kinds of claims about depression and how it can be easily cured; no problems lets put some patients confirmed to be suffering from clinical depression in front of these Shaykhs and monitor their progress. Alhumdolillah, it will be a triumph of Islamic medicine and a vehicle for Dawah. Chinese (Acupuncture) and Hindus (Ayurveda) have done the same so let’s do the same for Islam.

The discussion may have come about due to Flu vaccines but there is a very serious problem amongst Muslim community which needs to be addressed.

Fair point or am I being too fastidious?

Yes hundreds around the world and how many of them berate medical science and claim it to a “Con”. Shaykh Hussain Abdul Sattar (MD) is an Assistant professor show me one statement of his (in public or private) where he makes such claims?

You are saying two things:

1. Contains Human Serum Albumen
2. Possible other ingredients which you are unsure about

Is that your basis of declaring it Haram? Let me confirm before moving forward.

Got an emergency call from somone to go to the Hospital because their daughter is in critical condition. Everyone is requested to make dua and we will return to this topic later...