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Tableeghi Jamaat & Tableeghees: Victimisation and Double Standards

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2013 12:33
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2013 21:55

MashaAllah. I fully agree with your reasons for having a soft spot for the tablighi jamaat and for the same reasons too. The most I spent in jamaat was 3 days twice that's it. MashaAllah, my life changed for the better. I have my own reasons for not sticking with them, but as you said, the soft spot remains. [Edit]

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2013 00:18
salaam

even though i have a lot of love for the actual original effort of tabligh jamaat and accept that there are many good, grassroots tablighis amongst them, i feel that the leadership and organisation operate akin to a cult and there are a lot of problems that have crept in and are not being addressed to the detriment of the jamaat. i also accept that there are problems with the different organisations carrying out other efforts of deen and some have taken steps to reform and some have tried to implement reform, but tablighis refuse to even listen to sincere advice and feel that their effort is in some way divine and therefore does not need reform or rectification. i have spent quite some time in tabligh jamaat many years ago starting from when i was 12 years old and have spent some sporadic time in recent years. mashallah they are still doing a lot of good work, but i feel that they have shifted a lot from the way they were before, compared to how they are now. and of course there are some tablighis today, including members of the leadership, that take things beyond the limit which i have wrote about a few times on SF.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2013 11:52
Please delete this thread as advised by Ulamah and the matter will now be dealt with privately.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2013 12:31

"Muadh_Khan" wrote:
Please delete this thread as advised by Ulamah and the matter will now be dealt with privately.

Allahu Akbar

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2013 13:45
xs11ax wrote:
salaam

even though i have a lot of love for the actual original effort of tabligh jamaat and accept that there are many good, grassroots tablighis amongst them, i feel that the leadership and organisation operate akin to a cult and there are a lot of problems that have crept in and are not being addressed to the detriment of the jamaat. i also accept that there are problems with the different organisations carrying out other efforts of deen and some have taken steps to reform and some have tried to implement reform, but tablighis refuse to even listen to sincere advice and feel that their effort is in some way divine and therefore does not need reform or rectification. i have spent quite some time in tabligh jamaat many years ago starting from when i was 12 years old and have spent some sporadic time in recent years. mashallah they are still doing a lot of good work, but i feel that they have shifted a lot from the way they were before, compared to how they are now. and of course there are some tablighis today, including members of the leadership, that take things beyond the limit which i have wrote about a few times on SF.


Any particular examples??
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2013 17:42

"Anonymous" wrote:
"xs11ax" wrote:
salaam even though i have a lot of love for the actual original effort of tabligh jamaat and accept that there are many good, grassroots tablighis amongst them, i feel that the leadership and organisation operate akin to a cult and there are a lot of problems that have crept in and are not being addressed to the detriment of the jamaat. i also accept that there are problems with the different organisations carrying out other efforts of deen and some have taken steps to reform and some have tried to implement reform, but tablighis refuse to even listen to sincere advice and feel that their effort is in some way divine and therefore does not need reform or rectification. i have spent quite some time in tabligh jamaat many years ago starting from when i was 12 years old and have spent some sporadic time in recent years. mashallah they are still doing a lot of good work, but i feel that they have shifted a lot from the way they were before, compared to how they are now. and of course there are some tablighis today, including members of the leadership, that take things beyond the limit which i have wrote about a few times on SF.
Any particular examples??

No reason to.

There has been a general decline in people's action which affects Tableegh, Tassawuff, Jihad, Darul-uloom and everything else.  The point is not to single out Tableeghi Jamaat as it has all the faults and every other area of Deen is perfect!

Amongst the Deobandi circles this is the attitude which is problematic and you can see that from the reactions of the last few days right here on this forum, people getting upset at mere writing the name of their Shaykh (no disrespect, no slander, no accusations) while TJ criticism can just carry on as normal

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 21st March 2013 19:35

I can't believe the bullcrap being bandied about in this thread on SF:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?103765-Tableeghi-Jamaat-amp-Tableeghees-Victimisation-and-Double-Standards%26%238207%3B

Mods seem to get ulcers when they see mufti adam kawthari being spoken against publicly on that thread, but when Maulana Sa'ad damath barak tuhum was maligned and was said tobe affected with Sihr to belittle him - nobody gave a damn - There wasn't a mod or senior member who said anything.

May Allah expose these fake people. Summa Aameen.

'Nuff said man.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2013 00:08
Muadh_Khan wrote:
"Anonymous" wrote:
"xs11ax" wrote:
salaam even though i have a lot of love for the actual original effort of tabligh jamaat and accept that there are many good, grassroots tablighis amongst them, i feel that the leadership and organisation operate akin to a cult and there are a lot of problems that have crept in and are not being addressed to the detriment of the jamaat. i also accept that there are problems with the different organisations carrying out other efforts of deen and some have taken steps to reform and some have tried to implement reform, but tablighis refuse to even listen to sincere advice and feel that their effort is in some way divine and therefore does not need reform or rectification. i have spent quite some time in tabligh jamaat many years ago starting from when i was 12 years old and have spent some sporadic time in recent years. mashallah they are still doing a lot of good work, but i feel that they have shifted a lot from the way they were before, compared to how they are now. and of course there are some tablighis today, including members of the leadership, that take things beyond the limit which i have wrote about a few times on SF.
Any particular examples??
No reason to. There has been a general decline in people's action which affects Tableegh, Tassawuff, Jihad, Darul-uloom and everything else.  The point is not to single out Tableeghi Jamaat as it has all the faults and every other area of Deen is perfect!


i agree with muadh bhai. the problem is not just with tabligh jamaat but with muslims in general. and as a consequence all other efforts have also been affected. there is no need to dig further.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2013 08:42

"Desi tadka" wrote:

I can't believe the bullcrap being bandied about in this thread on SF:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?103765-Tableeghi-Jamaat-amp-Tableeghees-Victimisation-and-Double-Standards%26%238207%3B

Mods seem to get ulcers when they see mufti adam kawthari being spoken against publicly on that thread, but when Maulana Sa'ad damath barak tuhum was maligned and was said tobe affected with Sihr to belittle him - nobody gave a damn - There wasn't a mod or senior member who said anything.

May Allah expose these fake people. Summa Aameen.

'Nuff said man.

Asslamo Allaikum,

The answers to all of the objections raised on Sunniforum are as follows, I am banned so if someone wants to post it that's fine:

  1. Purpose: The purpose of the blog was to highlght that all areas of Deen (Darul-ulooms, Tassawuff & Tableegh) have deficiencies and if the Ulamah and (particularly) laymen don’t criticise others such as Darul-ulooms and Tassawuff publicly then why criticiseTJ publicly?
  2. Tassawuff in TJ: The second point mentioned in the blog that many of the Ulamah in TJ have Khilafah from the same Akabir as Tassawuff eg Shaykh (Maulana) Ihsan Saheb (HA) for starters has Khilafah from Shaykhul-Hadeeth (Maulana) Zakariyya (RA) so to say TJ somehow lacks in Tassawuff (Tazkiyyah) is not placing the blame on Tableeghi elders but placing the blame on those who gave them Khilafah
  3. Authority in TJ: The third point in the blog was that there are Uamah and Mashaykh in Tableeghi Jamaat just as Darul-ulooms and Tassawuff so if the laymen are not allowed to criticise Darul-ulooms and Tassawuff then why are they allowed to express displeasure, critique and condemn Tableeghi Jamaat tactics?
  4. Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA):
    1. Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (HA) has decided to partially take the words of Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) on Tableeghi Jamaat and use facebook as a medium which the very same Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) passionately disapproves and calls for a boycott so the discrepancy is highlighte

    2. Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (HA) has discussed the matter publicly on facebook so the matter is replied to him publicly
    3. Why now? Becuse he stopped dialogue on facebook, he refused to discuss the matter any other way and there was no choice left but to address the matter?
    4. Why does someone need to discuss this? Because in UK (as being a Non-Muslim country) there is a genuine need to protect the Eemaan of Muslims and Tableeghi Jamaat does have an impact (and no one in their right mind can deny it) and Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (RA) has given ammunition to:
      1. Ahl-e-Hadeeth
      2. Salafees
      3. Barelwees
      4. etc etc etc
    5. What is the point? Because Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (HA) DOES NOT address any other discrepancy in any other area of Islamic work (which he is well aware) but in case of Tableeghi Jamaat he has chosen to address it publicly and in a rant like manner (which is still visible even after heavy editing on facebook)
    6. Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) compared to Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA)? Hazrat (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) equally offers advice for Darul-ulooms and Tassawuff so would Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) discuss Darul-uloom Bury (his institute) or his father or his Shaykh and offer them advice on facebook involving a bunch of laymen? Why not? And that’s the point of raising this!
    7. Tableeghi Extremism by the blogger: It is mentioned right at the start that the blogger is neither a Tableeghi nor associated with the work so its clear that people havn't read what has been written
    8. Outcome & Judgement of Ulamah? This matter that the platform and the method of Tableeghi cricitism employed by Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (HA) was unjustified and it has been accepted by Ulamah due to the blog which raised the issue again since it wasn't addressed.
    9. Disrespect for Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA)? This is in the minds of SF fanatics, Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) raised an issue on facebook obviously for laymen consumption and a laymen has responded which doesn’t use Facebook as per the Fatwa of Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA). If the SF fanatics can show or point out text allegedly or factually disrespecting Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) please do so

If the issue isn't resolved and a person feels that it needs to highlighted then it can be resurrected decades later, forget 5 months.

What people are choosing to focus on is the “authority” and “propensity” of a laymen questioning a Mufti openly this has been conveyed to SF Moderators and Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) privately as its none of the business of the laymen and it has been subtly hinted by Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) but this matter is not open for discussion.

Lastly Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) and others have asked as to why Ulamah have responded to a blog now and not 5 months earlier, that’s a question for the Ulamah and I guess that someone must have brought the blog to their attention as they are not on facebook, don’t know.

The main point of the blog was 1 and Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) was mentioned as a seconday or even tertiary issue and the whole blog has been removed as the request of Ulamah and conveyed to SF Mods/Admins publicly and privately but they have chosen to carry on with the discussion

Disclaimer: This post doesn't reflect the views of Muftisays (ofcourse) and I am not part of their Shura or Admin/Mod team etc.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2013 09:56

"Muadh_Khan" wrote:

"Desi tadka" wrote:

I can't believe the bullcrap being bandied about in this thread on SF:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?103765-Tableeghi-Jamaat-amp-Tableeghees-Victimisation-and-Double-Standards%26%238207%3B

Mods seem to get ulcers when they see mufti adam kawthari being spoken against publicly on that thread, but when Maulana Sa'ad damath barak tuhum was maligned and was said tobe affected with Sihr to belittle him - nobody gave a damn - There wasn't a mod or senior member who said anything.

May Allah expose these fake people. Summa Aameen.

'Nuff said man.

Asslamo Allaikum,

The answers to all of the objections raised on Sunniforum are as follows, I am banned so if someone wants to post it that's fine:

  1. Purpose: The purpose of the blog was to highlght that all areas of Deen (Darul-ulooms, Tassawuff & Tableegh) have deficiencies and if the Ulamah and (particularly) laymen don’t criticise others such as Darul-ulooms and Tassawuff publicly then why criticiseTJ publicly?
  2. Tassawuff in TJ: The second point mentioned in the blog that many of the Ulamah in TJ have Khilafah from the same Akabir as Tassawuff eg Shaykh (Maulana) Ihsan Saheb (HA) for starters has Khilafah from Shaykhul-Hadeeth (Maulana) Zakariyya (RA) so to say TJ somehow lacks in Tassawuff (Tazkiyyah) is not placing the blame on Tableeghi elders but placing the blame on those who gave them Khilafah
  3. Authority in TJ: The third point in the blog was that there are Uamah and Mashaykh in Tableeghi Jamaat just as Darul-ulooms and Tassawuff so if the laymen are not allowed to criticise Darul-ulooms and Tassawuff then why are they allowed to express displeasure, critique and condemn Tableeghi Jamaat tactics?
  4. Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA):
    1. Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (HA) has decided to partially take the words of Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) on Tableeghi Jamaat and use facebook as a medium which the very same Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) passionately disapproves and calls for a boycott so the discrepancy is highlighte

    2. Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (HA) has discussed the matter publicly on facebook so the matter is replied to him publicly
    3. Why now? Becuse he stopped dialogue on facebook, he refused to discuss the matter any other way and there was no choice left but to address the matter?
    4. Why does someone need to discuss this? Because in UK (as being a Non-Muslim country) there is a genuine need to protect the Eemaan of Muslims and Tableeghi Jamaat does have an impact (and no one in their right mind can deny it) and Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (RA) has given ammunition to:
      1. Ahl-e-Hadeeth
      2. Salafees
      3. Barelwees
      4. etc etc etc
    5. What is the point? Because Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (HA) DOES NOT address any other discrepancy in any other area of Islamic work (which he is well aware) but in case of Tableeghi Jamaat he has chosen to address it publicly and in a rant like manner (which is still visible even after heavy editing on facebook)
    6. Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) compared to Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA)? Hazrat (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) equally offers advice for Darul-ulooms and Tassawuff so would Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) discuss Darul-uloom Bury (his institute) or his father or his Shaykh and offer them advice on facebook involving a bunch of laymen? Why not? And that’s the point of raising this!
    7. Tableeghi Extremism by the blogger: It is mentioned right at the start that the blogger is neither a Tableeghi nor associated with the work so its clear that people havn't read what has been written
    8. Outcome & Judgement of Ulamah? This matter that the platform and the method of Tableeghi cricitism employed by Shaykh Mufti Ibn Adam (HA) was unjustified and it has been accepted by Ulamah due to the blog which raised the issue again since it wasn't addressed.
    9. Disrespect for Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA)? This is in the minds of SF fanatics, Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) raised an issue on facebook obviously for laymen consumption and a laymen has responded which doesn’t use Facebook as per the Fatwa of Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA). If the SF fanatics can show or point out text allegedly or factually disrespecting Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) please do so

If the issue isn't resolved and a person feels that it needs to highlighted then it can be resurrected decades later, forget 5 months.

What people are choosing to focus on is the “authority” and “propensity” of a laymen questioning a Mufti openly this has been conveyed to SF Moderators and Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) privately as its none of the business of the laymen and it has been subtly hinted by Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) but this matter is not open for discussion.

Lastly Shaykh (Mufti) Abu Hajira (HA) and others have asked as to why Ulamah have responded to a blog now and not 5 months earlier, that’s a question for the Ulamah and I guess that someone must have brought the blog to their attention as they are not on facebook, don’t know.

The main point of the blog was 1 and Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) was mentioned as a seconday or even tertiary issue and the whole blog has been removed as the request of Ulamah and conveyed to SF Mods/Admins publicly and privately but they have chosen to carry on with the discussion

Disclaimer: This post doesn't reflect the views of Muftisays (ofcourse) and I am not part of their Shura or Admin/Mod team etc.

Wa alay kum as salaam, 

Bro Muadh, nothing's gonna get cooked, whatever anyone says, it'll be interpreted as 'against Ulamah' or 'against Tasawwuf' and more advices are given to tablighees.

Even Faqeeh ul Ummah's fatwa on Masturaat Jama't was disrespected [not disagreed] on pseudosufiforum - until Mufti Ebrahim Desai damath baraka tuhum gave his seal of approval and their mouths were shut.

At times like these, one looks upto the Ulamah's and Seniors [like even aapa --EDIT--] to stand up and speak the huqq - but they have been utter failures, time and again.

They'll only come in when the ghuloo in tasawwuf is mentioned [in that thread of Maulana Taliban1], yes, from a Maulana, not a layman.

They have too much blood on their hands, and it ain't gonna wash off anytime soon. 

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2013 09:58
I'm on SF - but have left and enjoying it.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd March 2013 16:34
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd March 2013 20:34
Quote:
Disclaimer: This post doesn't reflect the views of Muftisays (ofcourse) and I am not part of their Shura or Admin/Mod team etc.
yeh, I think loads of us should have This as Our signature, especially brotherhood muadh.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 24th March 2013 10:34

Like I predicted. None of the questions were answered.

And some didn't even live upto this forget the Sahabi.

Allah rabbul izzat will deal with them -

Lets not waste time anymore.

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