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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 11:43
Above post updated.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 11:51
One of the difference's highlighted below:

Quote:
According to Molwi Ajmad 'Ali A'zami, the deputy (khalifah) of Ahmad Rada Khan Barelwi, it is permissible for the khawwas to perform tawaf around the graves to seek blessings.

He writes in Bahar-i-Shari'ah, 4:90, a book of fiqh for the general public,

"And tawaf ta'zimi (for reverence) around the grave is not allowed, but if he circumambulates around the grave to gain blessings, then there is no harm in this. But awwam (laymen) would be stopped from this and [this] should not be performed in front of the laymen..."


Hmm... I wonder why tawaf can't be done in front of laymen?
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 13:29
abu mohammed wrote:
One of the difference's highlighted below:

Quote:
According to Molwi Ajmad 'Ali A'zami, the deputy (khalifah) of Ahmad Rada Khan Barelwi, it is permissible for the khawwas to perform tawaf around the graves to seek blessings.

He writes in Bahar-i-Shari'ah, 4:90, a book of fiqh for the general public,

"And tawaf ta'zimi (for reverence) around the grave is not allowed, but if he circumambulates around the grave to gain blessings, then there is no harm in this. But awwam (laymen) would be stopped from this and [this] should not be performed in front of the laymen..."


Hmm... I wonder why tawaf can't be done in front of laymen?


salaam

so that it does not go from being something simple for gaining barakah and reward, to becoming an established innovation or even shirk?
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 13:31
Are you Justifying this act?

How can it be something simple. Did you know that Tawaf is the same as Salah.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 14:01
abu mohammed wrote:
Are you Justifying this act?

How can it be something simple. Did you know that Tawaf is the same as Salah.


not justifying the act. i was answering your question that why it cannot be done in front of laymen. i have heard of deobandi ulama conducting tahajjud in jamaat away from the public eye as well.

when they say tawaf, do they actually mean tawaf as in the same tawaf that is done round the kaba, or are they just using that word just to describe the act of walking around the grave?

and why would they need to walk arond it for barakah? cant they just stand there and gain barakah?
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 14:07

"Anonymous" wrote:
"abu mohammed" wrote:
Are you Justifying this act? How can it be something simple. Did you know that Tawaf is the same as Salah.
not justifying the act. i was answering your question that why it cannot be done in front of laymen. i have heard of deobandi ulama conducting tahajjud in jamaat away from the public eye as well. when they say tawaf, do they actually mean tawaf as in the same tawaf that is done round the kaba, or are they just using that word just to describe the act of walking around the grave? and why would they need to walk arond it for barakah? cant they just stand there and gain barakah?

 

I have witnessed this act my self. They dont do all 7 rounds, they start from one end and walk all the way round the grave. Not sure how many circuits they complete. I saw this with my own eyes on my visit to India. After the circumbulation one of their hench men comes and makes you almost prostrate at the feet of the grave and if you dont go down, they force you down.

How do I know?  They tried to make me do it when I was about 10ish years old.

 

LOL, @Tahujjud in Jamaat Vs Tawaf of the grave. One is SHIRK the other is a difference of opinion.

SubhanAllah.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 15:28
abu mohammed wrote:
LOL, @Tahujjud in Jamaat Vs Tawaf of the grave. One is Shirk the other is a difference of opinion.

SubhanAllah.


Did i say they are both the same? Did i say one is better than the other?

You asked why THEY say not to do the tawaf thing in front of laymen. I cited one possible reason and gave an example of how deobandi ulama also hide some things from laymen.

Anyway, with what intention do they walk around the grave? What is it that makes this act shirk?
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 15:42

"Anonymous" wrote:
"abu mohammed" wrote:
LOL, @Tahujjud in Jamaat Vs Tawaf of the grave. One is Shirk the other is a difference of opinion. SubhanAllah.
Did i say they are both the same? Did i say one is better than the other? You asked why THEY say not to do the tawaf thing in front of laymen. I cited one possible reason and gave an example of how deobandi ulama also hide some things from laymen. Anyway, with what intention do they walk around the grave? What is it that makes this act shirk?

 

To be honest, I didn't ask them at the time. I was only around 10 years old.

Why dont you tell us, since you are supporting or defending them. Or maybe even trying to make us understand and clarify any misconceptions.

Instead of going round in circles, can you please tell us what their intention is. And please dont give me the same answer as Tahir Qadri did with regards to people doing Sajdah at his feet. I dont buy that.

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 15:49

"abu mohammed" wrote:
Although I say the difference is minute, that is amongst those who have some sort of Sahih knowledge. The Major difference is this; www.muftisays.com/blog/abu+mohammed/578_18-11-2010/who%27... Can Asrar Rashid justify these Barelwi acts. And believe me, they are Barelwi. I've seen it with my own eyes. Can he justify Tawaf around the graves, Can he justify Sujood to graves of the Awliyah? I didn't think so!

 

Have you seen this link?

Can you Clarify and tell us that they are not Barelwi in the pictures. Can you provide evidence for what they are doing in them? Can you tell us what their intentions are?

There's no point, Those people are doing Biddah, kufr and shirk and they dont even know it. Just like the monks who set themselves up in monestaries and kept them selves aside only for Allah thinking they are pleasing Allah. But in actual fact they were going astray because they lacked the knowledge and started to do waht they thought was best. Their intentions may have been pure, but their actions were wrong. So what happened to them? Allah cursed them. They were led astray.

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 15:59
The fatwa in the top posts clearly states that if he is doing tawaf for blessings, then there is no harm in this

How can one attain blessing from doing tawaf or walking around even once, gain any blessings. From who will the blessings come from. The one in the grave or Allah. If the reward is to come for Allah then making tawaf around the grave has no basis in Islam and every man shall have what he intended. So if the layman or scholar intends to do Tawaf around the grave simply for blessings, then isn't that shirk because the only one who can bless is Allah. And if you disagree, then on Yaumul Qiyamah, Allah will ask them to go to those who they sought the blessings from. Since they will not be able to, Allah will throw him into hell as well as the one being worshiped. Allah will throw everything that was worshipped into hell, nicluding the Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the Idols, the Kings etc except Prophet Isa (as) as he did not preach this.
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 16:13
abu mohammed wrote:
To be honest, I didn't ask them at the time. I was only around 10 years old.[/quote]

I am not asking about the incident from when you were around 10 years old. I am asking in general. You said it was shirk so i asked with what intention do they walk around the grave? What is it that makes this act shirk?

abu mohammed wrote:
Why dont you tell us, since you are supporting or defending them. Or maybe even trying to make us understand and clarify any misconceptions.


Which one of my posts or parts of my posts made you conclude that i am supporting or defending them? Which one of my posts or parts of my post makes you think that i am trying to make you understand and clarify any misconceptions?

[quote="abu mohammed"]Instead of going round in circles, can you please tell us what their intention is. And please dont give me the same answer as Tahir Qadri did with regards to people doing Sajdah at his feet. I dont buy that.


How am i going around in circles? You are the one going around in circles. All i did was cite a possible reason why they say not to do the act of walking around the grave i front of laymen. I then asked some questions in relation to this act and also asked you why you labeled this act is shirk.

I have no idea what their intention is. That is why i am asking what their intention is behind this act.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 16:18
Jazakallahu Khair. I read your post at the top again just a few minutes ago, and you are right. I did get carried away and I saw that you have clearly tried to ask why they need to make tawaf and why they couldnt just stand in one place.

I read the first part of the reply and and reacted without reading the last line.

Alhumdulillah.

Maybe the ones who are trying to justify any of their un-Islamic acts can respond to our queries.

Jazakallahu khair. Thumbs up.
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 16:30
abu mohammed wrote:
Jazakallahu Khair. I read your post at the top again just a few minutes ago, and you are right. I did get carried away and I saw that you have clearly tried to ask why they need to make tawaf and why they couldnt just stand in one place.

I read the first part of the reply and and reacted without reading the last line.

Alhumdulillah.

Maybe the ones who are trying to justify any of their un-Islamic acts can respond to our queries.

Jazakallahu khair. Thumbs up.


I doubt they will respond. I hope they do.

Does anyone here know what excuses they give for this tawaaf around the graves act?
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2012 16:35
The Fatwa makes it clear that it is for BLESSINGS.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2013 14:30
First of all Imam Ahmed Rida Khan Barelvi has written in his books that Sajdah to graves/people is Haram. Unfortunately there are people who call themselves Barelvi, but are infact doing the greatest disservice to Imam Ahmed Rida Khan. So to make that point clear, Sujood to graves is Haram, if the Sajdah is of worship then not only is it Haram but it is also Shirk and Kufr.

Secondly a brother mentioned that the brother of Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani was the teacher of Imam Ahmed Rida Khan. This is a lie. Infact, the confusion started because one of the teachers of Imam Ahmed Rida Khan was called Ghulaam Mirza Baig. This is NOT and I stress this, NOT the brother of Mirza Qadiani who's brother was called Ghulaam Qaadir Baig. These are two different individuals. Maulana Asrar Rashid explains this in the video a brother provided.
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