I'm sorry Daywalk3r, I haven't displayed any ego in this matter. When someone can sit here pointing Haram Haram Haram, I couldn't read any more. I had to ask why he, himself, personally is so convinced that it's Haram for everyone. If he wants to take that ruling then good on him. Maybe Allah's given him more fear than others. But one thing he hasn't been given is a status above others and a status above scholars and Muftis.
If he proved smoking is Haram just as intoxicants are Haram (as the claim was), I would not be replying anymore except with one "thank you"
Locking this thread would be one sided. Can you, or can you not prove it's Haram? If not then please say so so I can read more from other better parts of this site and not be distracted here.
I found a quote from someone made 3 years ago on another web site. This is a site where everyone like me and you try to answer questions like they're scholars or even better than scholars. His view is
Quote:
It is a non-religious issue. It is more appropriately addressed as a social and or a medical issue. Anyone who tries to turn this into a religious issue is an extremist and should be avoided. This other responder who went to great lengths at justifying how smoking is haram has a screw or two lose.
By his reasoning he should declare driving haram, far more innocent people die each day in accidents and I am not talking about drunk drivers, just cold sober drivers.....
Those are not my words although they sound seriously familiar.
Now I'm starting to see it like this too after meeting some people in this thread. It's a non-religious matter and anyone who tries to answer this as a religious matter in an extremist.
So since you are allowed to give Fatwas here, here is mine:
Smoking is a socially disliked habit and a non-religious matter. Smoking is not beneficial in any way except for a few minor and rare medical purposes. Anyone who issues any ruling against tobacco should have a ruling issued against them first for Bid'ah. Do not encourage tobacco and at the same time do not issue Fatwas on a non-religious matter.
Hold on a minute. I just looked back at the thread and the only person to say Haram x 3 was Mufti Menk. After that it was the guest who has implied that the members have constantly pushed "HARAM HARAM HARAM" where in actual fact, its the guest-81866 who is the only one who has written it like that. From what I can see, the members have fairly provided both opinions and expressed their own feelings towards the matter.
Those who accept the fatwa of makrooh, so be it. Those who accept the fatwa of haram, so be it.
You're right. I checked and couldn't find it. I also understand why guest-81866 mentioned it. If we post it and confirm it by adding to it on a subject about Shisha, Huka, Smoking, Pipes etc then it's as close to saying it yourself as can be. But the fact remains that guest-81866 saying "Haram x 3" in every post did not help the situation.
guest-81866 wrote:
Smoking is a socially disliked habit and a non-religious matter
I can understand your frustration but smoking is definitely a religious matter as is every aspect of your life. Religious does not only refer to rulings, it does not only refer to the 5 pillars but it also refers to awareness of life and others, purpose of life to even the way you walk or how you use the loo.
It is clear now that there's no clear evidence of making tobacco Haram but there's a preferred ruling and an applied ruling. Those who do not smoke should take approach of Hurmat to avoid it which is better for them in every way. To those who do smoke or take tobacco should consider it Makrooh in order to give up. Beyond this advice, there's strict applications of rulings which each individual can practice with assistance of a scholar on their own and not as a group or through an online forum.
Please use this thread to post only the harms and NOT rulings.
I won't edit anything prior to this but I will remove all rulings posted hereon to safeguard everyone from this cycle.
Personally, I did not see anything worth deleting completely but there was a little disrespect which I'm sure both parties will agree with?
Please respect this decision. Jazakumullah. Wassalam
I can log in now. But I will remain a guest for this part. Sorry for hiding but I know how these things can make one hated.
It's been on my mind for almost a day now and I will have to ask. So here it is. It's a valid so please don't remove it.
If a person was going to be executed and with his last meal he requested a cigarette too, do you still say it's Haram?
I don't smoke cigarettes or sheesha so it's not a matter of nafs, ego or pride or anything as everyone likes to throw around in here :)
For me on a personal level, it's not a valid question.
If we have pets, we know that it is forbidden for us to buy Haram pet food and feed the pet, yet at the same time, if the pet ate Haram meat at its own accord, it is fine. The point is we are not allowed to buy Haram pet food and feed it. So if we have Fatwa saying that trading in Tabacco is Haram since it is a substance that causes proven damage to the body, then its use would also be Haram.
What if the one to be executed asked for a Beer?
Please dont let this drag on. See what Admin has suggested above.
Beer is Haram made by Allah. I'm asking about a cigarette please don't change my very very simple scenario because my understanding of this depends on it and I consider smoking, sheesha, tobacco, Ghutka and even Paan etc to be a very disgusting in every possible manner.
I'm just trying my best to understand here, so you're saying that the reason for smoking being Haram is because it's Haram to sell it?
Beer is Haram made by Allah. I'm asking about a cigarette please don't change my very very simple scenario because my understanding of this depends on it and I consider smoking, sheesha, tobacco, Ghutka and even Paan etc to be a very disgusting in every possible manner.
I'm just trying my best to understand here, so you're saying that the reason for smoking being Haram is because it's Haram to sell it?
Fair point, Jazakallahu khair.
The underlined statement is not the reason. I dont want to continue posting the reasons why many Ulama have said it is Haram/Makruh. If you may, please read them.
To rephrase my previous reply, "Who would like to displease Allah as their last action?" since those who dont say it Haram, do say it is Makruh, and we all know the definition of Makruh.
My post with the Hadith about addiction and its effects on the nerves is enough for me as a non scholar and is enough for those who have used it as scholars too. Playing with words and asking for catergoric evidence is not my way and I'm sure its not yours either.
Since you find these things disgusting in every possible manner, please remember "There's no smoke without fire". Excuse the Pun, but I think its a valid and very fitting saying.
As the last few pages have been a battle between the ruling of Haram and Makrooh and you were one of the people to argue that it's Haram. By the way, jazakallah so much for replying. Others have posted, stirred a little and gave no solution except to say you and guest816 have egos etc. I don't believe that.
So now you're saying it's Makrooh? Then what was all the fuss about before? See this is why people like me get confused
As the last few pages have been a battle between the ruling of Haram and Makrooh and you were one of the people to argue that it's Haram. By the way, jazakallah so much for replying. Others have posted, stirred a little and gave no solution except to say you and guest816 have egos etc. I don't believe that.
So now you're saying it's Makrooh? Then what was all the fuss about before? See this is why people like me get confused
Its definately not an ego thing. I'm glad you believe that.
For me, it's still Haram and Allah knows best. I used the term Makruh, because those who don't accept it as Haram (which is fair), they in the least, accept that it is Makruh. Therefore, I used that as an example.
Who would like to do an act that is either Haram or displeasing to Allah as their last act alive? Who would want be the one to give or light that cigarette for him and be part of it?
Yes definitely no ego I think. Stubborn for sure but that's normal human nature. EVERYONE has it lol.
Ok it's clear to me now. So you choose the ruling of Haram but don't say that it's Haram like how drugs are Haram.
And Makrooh ruling is correct and not wrong as was stated in the first few pages here?
That's all fine. I still say all this smoking and paan (especially mouthful of Gutka) stuff is just disgusting and the more you stay away the better. But those who do it, I will never say you're committing Haram.
I asked the scenario because if the reason for Haram is "causes death" then that reason is no longer valid in this scenario as the cause of death will not be the cigarette but the execution. This 'fictional' person in this 'made up scenario' is a mass murderer and doesn't care about displeasing Allah. So that's all besides the point. I wanted to give the scenario and ask to find out if smoking and that which is clearly Haram like drinking are two very very different things.
I also totally get it now what Yasin meant by none of the scholars are wrong which first made me think "huh!!!!!! they're different rulings though". There's real deep members on this forum dude, it makes people like me just sit back as I hardly ever know what to say lol
I hope you feel my question was valid now as I did say it wasn't to stir :) i feel better now
I asked the scenario because if the reason for Haram is "causes death" then that reason is no longer valid in this scenario as the cause of death will not be the cigarette but the execution.
My reason for persuing why it would be Haram is the wording found here not because it would be "the" cause of death in your scenario, and the proof of what it does to the body as per the words of our most beloved in the Hadith is here
Jazakallahu khairan.
There is no need to continue with this. The Verses of The Quran used on this topic, The Hadith used for this topic and the Science/known facts all used together on this topic points to the evils of smoking and tobacco. Which ever scholar gives a ruling to his understanding and is correct will be given 2 rewards for being correct and if they were wrong, then by the mercy of Allah, they will still get the 1 reward.
If I were to believe and accept that smoking is not Haram or Makruh, simply because smoking is not harmfull, then the video is very clear on how harmfull it really is. If the Ulama were to see this topic with the facts from a medical perspective and using the evidence from the Quran and Sunnah, they might change their opinion, Allahu alum.
And the only reason i make susch a statement is that I have asked a very well known Mufti a valid question and Alhumdulillah, he had answered it very well to the best of his knowledge at the time. However, a year later, I had found strong evidence which suggested something else. And since it was not about ego, rather taqwa, I went back to the Mufti and presented my evidnece and asked him again. Alhumdulillah, he changed his verdict there and then.
Its the same issue with the moon debate, 18 degrees, HFA etc. When we see compelling evidence, then we go with what we see as the truth and reject what we have accepted for so many years. It is possible those who accept it, is out of taqwa and it is possible those who dont accept it, is out of ego. again Allahu alum.
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
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