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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 30th September 2006 21:09

Salaam Respected Brothers and Sisters

I am writing because i have a few issues i would like to research about, but all the information i get really puts me off.

I know this sounds harsh and i really don't want to feel the way i do about some issues but i can't help it and i would really like some help to get over them. It's mostly about women's right, i feel as if islam is totally unfair on women. it's all about how the woman should do this to please her husband, how she should be obdient and self sacraficing...it really puts me off marriage! It's like all the guys have the rights, theyre like lords over their wives who have to listen to thier every command...unless ofcourse it goes 'against islam.' i mean i'm sorry if this sounds rude but i cant believe the fact that men are allowed to have more then one wife!!!!!! i mean you get married so you share your life with this one person...who wants a second, third and fourth women in the way? I know its all that stuff about if ur wife cant give u 'sexual satisfaction' then u can marry again, but what of the husband can't give the wife the same thing? oh, she has to bear it with a smile doesn't she. i really want to be religious, but these things put me off.

I dont care about other religions and how unfair they are on women but i'm talking about ISLAM and i want equal rights. it's just not possible though. i know im being really selfish but i can't help it!!!!! the prophet said there will be more women then men in hell...erm why?!!! who are the rapists, the burgulars, the guys who used to bury thier daughters alive and treat women like animals???? ok so women gossip....but whats worse? gossipers or rapists? i believe in allah strongly and i really want to be more religious but then this womens right issue comes up and i get put off. i'm nearly going to be 16 soon and i think this ramazan could be my new start...but i need more info on this topic. please help out, sorry if i offended anyone or said something wrong but i just said what i feel.... Jazak Allah.

Sister In Islam

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 30th September 2006 22:30
sweet 16 wrote:

Salaam Respected Brothers and Sisters


I am writing because i have a few issues i would like to research about, but all the information i get really puts me off.


I know this sounds harsh and i really don't want to feel the way i do about some issues but i can't help it and i would really like some help to get over them. It's mostly about women's right, i feel as if islam is totally unfair on women. it's all about how the woman should do this to please her husband, how she should be obdient and self sacraficing...it really puts me off marriage! It's like all the guys have the rights, theyre like lords over their wives who have to listen to thier every command...unless ofcourse it goes 'against islam.' i mean i'm sorry if this sounds rude but i cant believe the fact that men are allowed to have more then one wife!!!!!! i mean you get married so you share your life with this one person...who wants a second, third and fourth women in the way? I know its all that stuff about if ur wife cant give u 'sexual satisfaction' then u can marry again, but what of the husband can't give the wife the same thing? oh, she has to bear it with a smile doesn't she. i really want to be religious, but these things put me off.


I dont care about other religions and how unfair they are on women but i'm talking about ISLAM and i want equal rights. it's just not possible though. i know im being really selfish but i can't help it!!!!! the prophet said there will be more women then men in hell...erm why?!!! who are the rapists, the burgulars, the guys who used to bury thier daughters alive and treat women like animals???? ok so women gossip....but whats worse? gossipers or rapists? i believe in allah strongly and i really want to be more religious but then this womens right issue comes up and i get put off. i'm nearly going to be 16 soon and i think this ramazan could be my new start...but i need more info on this topic. please help out, sorry if i offended anyone or said something wrong but i just said what i feel.... Jazak Allah.


Sister In Islam




This shuld't have been reported. This sister wants guidance and we are here to help.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2006 11:09
have any of the ulema's guided her yet?


(i remember i went through this until i decided to go study further in a darul-uloom, where i learnt so much in such a short time.)


someone learned should tackle this asap. it really will rid her negative thoughts in womens rights.
Alhamdolillah, Allah the Almighty has made it so easy for women.
there are rights concerning;
as a wife
as an INDIVIDUAL
as a widow
as a daghter in law
as an inheritor
etc....


it goes on and in detail.
sweet16, is there anything in particular that you need details on?
if so, im absolutely certain someone will tend to you real soon.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 1st October 2006 11:19
I think we should start off by answering to the things she has stated above.
Then if she has any other questions, we can go on. Alot of people have been misguided by this and help from people like us would be beneficial.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 02:22
i agree this should not have been reported...we all go through this sometime early on in life...the more knowledge we gain the more we begn to understand and realize why ALLAH swt has ordained things the way they are.......
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 05:23
Original post restored. I'm sure whoever reported it had their reasons. InshaAllah i'm hoping the topic is constructive and positive.


Wassalam

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 10:13
Just to organise the sister's points:
  • The command for wife's obedience to her husband
  • Conjugal rights and the man's right to have up to 4 wives
  • Women in Jahannam - judging the severity of a sin.
Salaam Dear sister,
I truly, deeply sympathise with your emotions at this time in your life. As all the sisters have mentioned above, we have all been through it at some point too. I personally had a massive hang up with the 'naaqisul aql' factor - oops ! lool, I dunno if I should add this to your 'beef list' ;-)

OK, anyway, moving on to addressing your concerns, firstly, in regard the necessity of the wife to obey the husband, the wisdom behind this is simply that when 2 adults are living together as husband and wife, there are bound to be differences, which would come to a point of separation if there was not some hierarchy of control in place.

To draw an analogy with a company, even a partnership... Imagine a business in which two partners: one with the skills required to provide the service, and the other with the finances and business know-how to fund the venture. In accordance with their abilities, they will trust each other to make certain decisions and will also act on the advice of the one with knowledge in the respective field.

It is necessary to acknowledge the difference in skills and know-how between women and men. Admittedly, we are speaking in general. It is true that if you take any one man and any one woman, it is possible that certain skills which men typically possess, will be absent in the man yet present in the woman, or even vice-versa.

Essentially, Allah has given women the duty of maintaining the home, which involves the pastoral care of all its inhabitants, its domestic organisation and general smooth operation. In contrast, men have been assigned the task of financing the project and providing security and protection in acordance with their strength and ability in these fields.

This does not mean that the two genders cannot cross into the other's field at times. In fact it is commendable that a woman assists her husband in all matters within her ability, and also for men to participate in housework activities, by following the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) which was to take care of all his own personal maintenance including washing clothes, mending footwear etc. and also to assist in the upbringing of the children especially through devoting time to their tarbiyah (spiritual training).

CONJUGAL RIGHTS AND 4 WIVES
As women, it is easy to feel hard done by when we first encounter this ruling. Firstly because of the fact that we tend to be jealous by nature and crave exclusive attention from our husbands and secondly because this right is not given to women too.

But when you actually ask married women, you will find that more and more of them are accepting of the notion because in reality the husband's conjugal demands on the wife are often too much to cope with ! At this point, many wives feel that it is in fact a blessing that the demands could be passed on in part to another wife - if only the men would have the guts to take on a second wife ! (It's financially difficult for the average guy as it is)

You mention that if a husband was unable to fulfil the wife's sexual needs, she would have to grin and bear it. It is interesting to note that in the time of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW), a woman once approached him and made the following complaint:


Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The wife of Thabit bin Qais came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I do not blame Thabit for defects in his character or his religion, but I, being a Muslim, dislike to behave in un-Islamic manner (if I remain with him)." On that Allah's Apostle said (to her), "Will you give back the garden which your husband has given you (as Mahr)?" She said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said to Thabit, "O Thabit! Accept your garden, and divorce her once." (Book #63, Hadith #197)

In the commentary, it is mentioned that by saying 'to behave in an unislamic manner' she meant 'to look elsewhere for satisfaction' because she found Thabit very unattractive.

The total subjugation of women which you associate with Islam is incorrect. It is probably influenced by years of oppressive customs which prevailed in the Indian sub-continent. Yes, Islam gives husbands certain right over their wives, but it also gives wives rights over their husbands. And Allah and His messenger are not unjust. If a woman is being mis-treated, she is fully within her rights to ask for khula (separation) from him. The wife's satisfaction and happiness in the marriage is of paramount importance, as you will see when you read any of the contemporary texts on marriage. Ashraf's Blessings of Marriage is an excellent book to start with.

Allah gives rights, and then He also advises. Because, we learn in life that things are not black and white. Sticking to the rulebook might establish justice, but not always the best long-term outcome. Sometimes it is advisable for the wife to practice sabr in the face of her husband's zulm for the sake of the children and the marriage, however, if she feels unable to do this, it IS her HAQQ to be treated humanely and Allah DOES give her a way out.

We make dua to Allah (SWT) to give us all the ability to fulfil the rights of others, and to protect us from becoming oppressors.

WHY MORE WOMEN IN JAHANNUM?
Finally, in response to your question as to why we are told that there will be more women in jahannum than men, I put forward the observation that the sins of men are clear, as you mentioned - murder, rape, theft etc. but the sins of women such as back-biting, ungratefulness, jealousy are such that women often do not acknowledge the sin and so, fail to take steps to correct it. Therefore, being oblivious of the sins they commit, they accumulate punishment and Allah's wrath more readily than men.

Unfortunately, we judge the severity of the sin by the peoples' standards. We regard certain sins as very evil and other sins as insignificant. This is folly on our part, because we do not know and understand the full extent of a sin on the community as a whole. Take for example the sin of dealing in interest. Allah states that a dirham consumed as interest is worse than 36 acts of fornication [Ahmad]. Note that the community will not blink an eye when a person takes out a loan, yet goes up in arms, and afire with *gossip* [nastaghfirullah!], when sad news of a young unmarried woman's preganancy comes to light. Similarly, we women underestimate the effect of the sins we commit because we do not fully comprehend how they ripple out and affect so many people.

Only Allah can judge the severity of sins committed, what we must do is to identify the sins and try our utmost to avoid them. A woman who does this is in Allah's eyes superior to the man who fails to do this and vice versa. Allah accepts the deeds of all muslims, male and female, equally. Our rank and status is in accordance to our obedience to Allah, not men. Even men do not realise this and sometimes enslave themselves to the people of the world by trying constantly, to keep the society happy, whilst often displeasing Allah.

Allah knows best, and we seek His forgiveness for all the sins which we commit, intentionally and unintentionally, knowingly and unknowingly. Indeed He is the most forgiving, the most merciful.


May Allah forgive me if I have made any errors in this reply.
I hope that your soul will become gladdened in the knowledge that Allah IS the Most Just, and that you will be able to say, with conviction: Radeeto billahi rabban, wa bil Islaami deenan, wa bi Muhammadi nabeeyan.
I am pleased with Allah as my Lord, Islam as my Deen and Muhammad as my Nabi.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 10:39
sorry, i just want to add to the above:


many families follow traditions which are based back home. (be it india, pakistan, bangladesh where ever...)
some people follow this more then the simple sharia laws regarding our rights as women.
so if ur from a very tradtional family, then it could very well be the case where you (swt16) are seeing people in your family following baseless traditions rather than the sharia law.
personally, i grew up thinking some of the traditional things i was brought up on, were in fact part of the laws of islam. (i used to think it was very unfair & wished i were a boy instead!! lol) however, when i went to study for a few years and as i read many books, i realised that they were all traditions. and i did find the laws to be more fair on women than these traditions.
i am not saying what swt16 said above are traditions. just that there maybe other things that she maybe confused about.


saying that, i guess sister shahly & ohers should explain some more in individual posts regarding matters which swt 16 has given.


ps, men also have to respond to womens conjugal rights.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 11:15
queenie wrote:

... (i used to think it was very unfair & wished i were a boy instead!! lol) ...

ps, men also have to respond to womens conjugal rights.

1) :D OMG - join the crew ... I remember nights when I would stay up till the early hours crying and agonising over my fate as a girl !

2) Too right ! ! !

Wassalaam


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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 15:30
The only thing I worry about is that according to Majlisul Ulema (South Africa) the sisters statement would PROBABLY constitute kufr. In a state of depression I questioned something once and though the majority opinion said I hadn't committed kufr, the Majlis said I had.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 15:49


But she knows what she is thinking is only misconceptions that is why she wants it clarified.


It's a shame we are brought up in such an culturally embossed manner that girls wish they are boys.

May Allah taa'la give us all hidaya and true understanding of deen. Ameen.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 16:11
sorry, i didnt realise u were gona finish it off on the same post.


i pray swt16 has learnt from this.
swt16 - if u have anymore q's, u shud feel free to ask. be it most embarrassing or common. there seems to be many learned women here on this site. masha'allah
u shud ask q's regarding what u do not know about, however, dont ever deny Allah ad his rules. never question Allah himself. that is kufr.
but i know she is just going through a rough teenage patch with hormones plying her up.
sister shahly, seriously, i thought i was abnormal in my teenage years. im glad to hear there are others that went thru the same!! lol!!

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 16:58
Assalamu Alaikum,


It is hard when living in a community with cultural,traditional norm, value and honour, I feel for you sister, you just a few years younger them me and I felt almost the same way you do at that age Angry and Confused.
I can go into a length talk about marriage, but I will like to avoid it as one of the sisters has answered very well.
I found "Ashraf's Blessing in marriage" very helpful, it doesn't degrade women's rights but I believe it highlights the important of a women in a wife role.
There are wonderful (non- prejudice) answers to all your questions sometime its best for you to go out there and learn them yourself, go to taleems, read Islamic books and interact with to Muslim sisters.


One problem is when you don't have any Muslim friends or have friend who know mock Islam and make it sound bad, that was exactly me at the age of 15, I didn't go Islamic school but a public one and I had no Muslim friend, no encouragement about seeking knowledge in Islam from family (because once you know about your religion you end up telling your family how it is).
You need goods Islamic influence, I'm not saying stop hanging around with non-Muslim but find good Muslim friend who you advise you about Islam etc.


Allah knows what ability he has given to men and women what they can cope with and what not. Women cannot cope with having more then 1 husband for various reason if you look it up you'll understand, I'll give you one reason how will she know who child she is carrying in her womb!!!


Women have right, it just society that has taken it away, but then you've got western views which Islam will never adjust to (inssallah). Islam give women states once again you really need to look it up.


In order for you to understand women right you need to learn about your religion in-depth. "A wise person before going to foreign country they will learn the language so they have no way of getting lost or tricked"Alm (knowledge)
Try taleems in your locate area, I use to avoid taleem until I found it beneficial and issallah you will too.


Forgive me for been all over the place with my words at work.


Brother it unfair what you've said, unless you highlight a problem or issues how do you overcome it and show them the path to Islam Peace. The are hundreds of sister And brothers out there are misguided because when they need help and advise they was turn away.
The bottom line is if you have trust in Allah what ever happens you would tell yourself "Allah knows best". Firm faith comes only through


The bottom line is if you have trust in Allah what ever happens you would tell yourself "Allah knows best".

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 17:32
Salam,


What u guys have sed is true. Sux we get twisted with our beliefs, we forget that behind everything, there is a reason. At ince I thought, Why am I a girl? Why this? Why that? I didnh't think about turning to AUTHENTIC Islamic sites etc. and instead I was misguided by articles written by others whio degraded women. Insha'Allah by your posts, sis sweet16 will understand but hey, no probs if u got more questions! :)


Wassalam

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd October 2006 22:20
Must say as bIoke reading some of the articIes of this thread nothing short of good advice through and through. May aIIah make our sisters aIso Iike the sisters on this site. Just need to stop the tidaI wave of foriegn imams/aaIimahs dont have the courage to speak out against such practices as they feeI too pressurised from "eIders" back home.
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