The Majlis silent on Saad Kandhalvi

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 12th April 2023 15:11

Maulana Ahmad Sadeq Desai who has been vociferous against baatil and deviants has surprisingly remained silent on the deviation of saad kandhalwi

Repeated emails requesting maulana to put forth his views hs remained unanswered.

Saad kandhalwi's controversial bayans had been sent to The Majlis but they have failed to reply in this regard. Whereas they promptly reply to every other query.

It is very disturbing and disheartening for those connected with The Majlis to see them fail in their amr bil maaroof and nahi anil munkar

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afzalyunus

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 00:37

afzalyunus wrote:

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Brother, books have already been written by them about Molvi Saad. The name of one of the books is literally "THE KUFR IDEOLOGY OF MOLVI SA’D".

There are plenty of other articles written by them and other Ulama have written books as well. Obviously they feel that the situation has been adequately addressed.
Plus when did Tabligihs ever really listen to any "Non Tablighi" Ulama other than when it effects their membership growth.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 01:38

mSiddiqui wrote:

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The reason for rejection of suggestions from zealots is this statement....
" THE KUFR IDEOLOGY OF MOLVI SA’D".

We don't hear that from a common aalim with cool head.
A normal aalim never add zeros to one. They point out the deviation, but won't call him kaafir. Majlis has a specialty to add zeros to one and make it 10, 100, 1000...
"Sar garam ulema" Of Africa.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 03:06

akbar703 wrote:

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Pointing out something to be Kufr and doing Takfir (calling someone a Kafir) are two very different things.

Again you just displayed your own ignorance towards Islamic Tradition. Ulama have used these types of adjectives in their writings throughout the ages. Don't ever in your life call someone stupid again or use any harsh language ever to describe anything.

1. You aren't a scholar.
2. Your criticism is a red herring.
3. The more Ghairat a man has the more he will get hurt when people are trying to distort the Deen.

I'd give you things to read, to show you evidence, but you won't so why waste time.

Thank you.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 08:35

mSiddiqui wrote:

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I read the 12 pages book " THE KUFR IDEOLOGY OF MOLVI SA’D".

Where is the kufr proven in this book. It claims "ghuloo"... but not kufr.
And regarding the usage of jeh-had ayat for khurooj in tableeg, we have writings by senior ulema allowing that, they are Molana Ilyas RA, Molana Yusuf sab RA, Shaykhul Hadees RA, Molana Manzoor Nomani RA, Molana Ali Mian Nadvi RA and many more.

Present ulema like Shaykh Abu bakr Al Jazairi RA (the hadith scholar and teacher in masjid Nabavi) etc.

Regarding the grading/hukm of khurooj (mubah to fardh e ayn), we have saying from many mufti of the past like Molana thanvi RA, to present Mufti Taqi Uthmani DB (He says, conditions apply, khurooj is fardh e ayn)

Deviations like saying "hidayath is not in hands of Allah", correction process is on with dalail, but no one called it kufr idiology. (We don't know who gave that authority to majlis to pronounce such decrees, this is not acceptable in other parts of the world)

Regarding khurooj is not a must, hidayath will reach directly to masses. You mean..... Allah SWT did not will to reform the Central American (Cuba, Venezuela etc ) migrant muslims and the TJs didn't do khurooj to these places. There was/is wide spread Irtidaad there. millions of muslims!!

And Allah intended hidayath for many places in Indian sub continent and western countries so Tablighi sathees did khurooj to these places/countries.

And if Allah intents today, Tabhlighi jamaaths will do khurooj to Saudi to reform the youth there, they are bankrupt with social evils, the first step towards irtidad.

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 10:20

akbar703 wrote:

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1. Do you know what Kufr Tahdeedi is?

2. Excerpt from the book you claimed to have read:

His claim: Hidaayat is not in the Hands of Allah Ta’ala. He had therefore sent the Ambiya to impart Hidaayat is tantamount to kufr. This is the most dangerous of Sa’d’s claims. He is clearly espousing an entirely new concept of kufr.

3.QUESTION:

What is the meaning of Tahreef Ma’nwi? The Tabligh Jamaat applies all the Qur’aanic verses and Ahaadith pertaining to Jihad (Qitaal) fi Sabeelillah to their specific methods of Tabligh. In the same way they transfer the virtues and rewards mentioned for Qitaal to their specific Tabligh method. Is this correct? Does it not alter the meaning of the Aayaat and Ahaadith?

Answer:

Tahreef Ma’nwi is a corrupt distortion of Qur’aanic or Hadith text – a distortion which changes the meaning of the text thereby attributing a meaning not intended by the Shariah, or a distortion which overrides or overshadows the true meaning of the texts, or the application of the texts to other meanings/activities not stated by the Shariah. Tahreef Ma’nwi is kufr.

2) It is haraam to change the Qur’aanic and Hadith texts which explicitly refer to Jihad in the meaning of Qitaal fi Sabeelillaah. It is not permissible to convey the idea that these texts which specifically refer to Jihad, refer to the Tabligh methodology of the Tablighi Jamaat. Such an idea is corrupt, false and baatil. Such distortion (Tahreef) is haraam and tantamount to kufr.

3) Regarding fadhaa-il and thawaab for Deeni acts, it is permissible to employ qiyaas in a restricted sense without distorting or abrogating the original meaning of the texts, and without attributing Qat’iyyat (Absolute Certitude) to the effect of such qiyaas. Thus, it will be said that a Tabligh group making khurooj for the purpose of da’wat is in the Path of Allah (Fisabeelillah) in the literal sense (Haqeeqi ma’na), not in the technical (Istilaahi) meaning.

In corroboration of this, is the Hadith which mentions that the one who leaves home in the quest of Ilm-e-Deen is Fisabeelillah until he returns. However, it will not be proper to make ta-addi (extension) of the exact thawaab of Qitaal fi sabeelillah for the customary tabligh of the Tablighi Jamaat. The thawaab for the former act is established by the Nusoos of the Shariah whereas there is no Nass whatsoever for the customary tablighi activities.

The furthest one may traverse in this sphere is to say that there is great reward for tabligh and da’wat. If there is any specific thawaab and fadhielat mentioned in the Ahaadith for tabligh other than Qitaal, then these should be mentioned. The specific virtues and rewards for Qitaal should not be transferred to the activities of the tablighi Jamaat. In so doing, it will be the commission of Tahreef Ma’nwi.

4) While the Tabligh Jamaat may encourage people by saying that there is much thawaab for participating in their style of Tabligh and Da’wat, it is not permissible for them to equate the fadhielat of their methodology to the Mansoos fadhaa-il of Jihad.

Since the Tabligh Jamaat has been peddling the idea that all the Qur’aanic Aayaat and Ahaadith pertaining to Jihad apply to their specific tablighi methodology, the rank and file –the awaam– have gained the impression that all such texts were revealed specifically for their style of tabligh. This is erroneous and dangerous.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 10:26

mSiddiqui wrote:

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تبلیغ فرض عین ہے۔ مختف جہتوں سے تبلیغ و دعوت کا کام خصوصی اہمیت اختیار کر گیا ہے۔ بالخصوص اس دور میں جب کہ شرکی قوتیں اپنی مفاسد پھیلا رہے ہیں۔
اور ماشاء اللہ تبلیغی جماعت بحیثیت مجموعی اسی کام کو بطریق احسان پورا کر رہی ہیں۔ لہٰذا مسلمانوں کو اس کے ساتھ تعاون کرنا چاہئے۔

واللہ سبحانہ العلم
احقر مفتی تقی عثمانی عفی عنہ۔

Tabligh is obligatory. The work of preaching and dawat has taken special importance from different dimensions. Especially in this era when Shirk forces are spreading their corruption.
And Masha'Allah Tablighi Jamaat as a whole is fulfilling this task with grace. So Muslims should cooperate with him.

Mufti Taqi Usmani DB

,,,,,,,,,,,,,

During particular conditions amr bil maroof and nahi anil munkar is fardh e ayen. And in general circumstances...... motivation to do good and stop from evil acts must be done with complete dedication, this is the responsibility of entire ummah and murawwajah tableeghi jamaath is fulfilling this responsibility with zeal...... effectively and with complete dedication.
So participating in this effort, supporting them is a blessing and gets rewards.

Mufti Rafi Usmani sab RA

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 10:32

mSiddiqui wrote:

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Quote:

. Do you know what Kufr Tahdeedi is?

Explain..

Quote:

2. Excerpt from the book you claimed to have read:

We too call it deviation, gumrahi. But zealots who are hypersensitive zealots call it kufr.
Darul ifta deoband calls it deviation, gumrahi.

Let us complete discussion on this 2, then we shall continue with remaining post.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 10:43

akbar703 wrote:

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1. Are you an Molvi?

2. Tablighi Jamat is not Fardh. Read clearly Tabligh is Fardh.

3. Who you calling a zealot, be clear?

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 10:44

mSiddiqui wrote:

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No, I am not an Aalim.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 11:31

akbar703 wrote:

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When you do Taubah from wagging your filthy tongue against Ulama, we can continue.

Subhan Allah you criticize a methodology, yet you resort to it. You have much Istighfaar to do. Regardless of what you think or say, Hadrhat Moulana Ahmed Sadiq دامت بركاته is over 80 years old. An elder Peer brother to Hadrhat Mufti Taqi Saab دامت بركاته. In fact Hadrhat Maseehullah رحمة الله عليه got Bayat to Hadrhat Moulana A S Desai after granting him Khilafat.

Hakeemul Ummat Mujadid e Millat Hadrhat Moulana Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanwi رحمة الله عليه said ESA and MASEEH have surpassed the rest. He said I have full confidence in the Islaahi method of Hadrhat Moulana Maseehullah Khan Saab رحمة الله عليه. Hadrhat Thanwi رحمة الله عليه would entrust his own mureedeen with these 2. Yet you so insolently wag your tongue at senior Ulama. They say stuff to each other that is their Maqam and they are contemporaries. If they say something about juniors, who are you to question.

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mSiddiqui

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 11:50

mSiddiqui wrote:

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And you think that :

Tabligh was started by non-ulema or junior ulema...
Supported by non-ulema or junior ulema.
Endorsed by non ulema or junior ulema
Its usools, its fazail were compiled by non-ulema or junior ulema.
And today it is moving under the supervision of non-ulema or junior ulema.

Wake up, maulana.....

I can list malfoozaath of ulema, their approval of tabligh and its methodology, their endorsement ....from day one, tableegh was started..... runs into hundreds of pages.

And we won't need guidance from a few zealots in south Africa......

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 12:14

mSiddiqui wrote:

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I quote from Shaykh Abu Bakr al jazairi, Ustaad in hadeeth in masjid e nabavi

دعوت تبلیغ پر اعتراض کرنے والوں کی دعوت سلبی شمار ہوگی
جب کہ دعوت و تبلیغ دعوت ایجابی ہے۔
تمام اہل عقل و دانش کے نزدیک ایجاب بہر حال اور بہر طور سلب سے بہتر ہے۔

The invitation of those who object to the tablighi jamaat will be considered negative
While da'wat o tabligh is positive.

According to all the people of wisdom and knowledge, positive is always better than negative.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 12:44

1. Stop assuming I'm a Molvi.
2. No one was going against Tablighi Jamat.
3. You are making new arguments out of no where.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2023 12:49

akbar703 wrote:

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English doesn't seem to be your first language. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt. You either seem to have a hard time understanding my posts or you have a knack for debating.

We should recite this in abundance:
اللَّهُمَّ إِنَّكَ عَفُوٌّ كَرِيمٌ تُحِبُّ الْعَفْوَ فَاعْفُ عَنِّي

If you actually go back an re read my posts, you wouldn't need to respond the way you currently are.

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The Majlis silent on Saad Kandhalvi

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