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How migrants lost Imaan.

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2023 16:11
This is self explanatory.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 12:22
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Bro, that example is poor, most of the people who left to go to south america from Lebanon and Syria were shias and non practicing families, its a well know fact.

But we get your point.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 16:45
Brother, even if they were nominal non practising Muslims, it is still very alarming to hear that so many have left Islam over the generations.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 16:51
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Its the reality, but like what i said, its the quality that counts not quantity, its very much likley they were non pract9icing but just identifies as muslims.

Just like my morrocan neigbours, identify with muslijm heritage but they do not practice , no salam, no friday prayers, no eid, more affinity with non muslims as they put up an xmas tree as highly secular and westernised. They vaguely know about ramadan, maybe their kids will one day grow up and find they were muslims and start to learn.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 17:02
Brother, isn't any connection to Islam, even cultural, still better than completely forsaking it?
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 17:08
Brother, the "quality vs quantity" debate sounds very attractive to the heart and mind, philosophically but we know from Ahadith that after being punished for a period of time, those who believed even an atom's worth in Allah or those who had just recited the kalimah without any other good deed to their name, would have a chance of being sent to Jannah in the end. And if Allah even sends those Shias, whose aqaid we hate in this world, to Jannah eventually just because they at least believed in him, then this should not make us unhappy rather we should be happy about it.

So our effort should be striving towards introducing Allah to each and every one in this world regardless of them becoming "quality" Muslims. Maximum amount of people should be going to Jannah, even if it means they scrape through on a mere technicality. If Allah were to look for only quality Muslims, then I am afraid only the Sahaba would be in Jannah.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 17:16
fod1083 wrote:
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That is where akbars TJ steps in.

To be honest i rather give time to muslims who say salam rather than those that say hello/good morning, I have more affinity with those that pray than not pray and those who have more in common with islamic belief's and practices, each to their own.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 17:22
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Im afraid you dont get it, they have forsaken it.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 17:24
Saracen1 wrote:
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Is that from seerah?
Is that from usools set by akabir?
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 17:39
fod1083 wrote:
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Masha Allah brother, very well said. Jazakallah.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 19:56
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I'm not here to debate just voicing my own opinion and experiences in the UK, and reflecting reality.

You are welcome to TJ movement, ive been there and really dont have the time for it as lost interest as I had other priorities in life. You are better off preserving the iman of muslims in India rather than talking about migrants. Many Indian states have muslims that are non practicing or practice hinduism and have never prayed from the quran. You're better off helping them than pointing to aticles about migrants in the non muslim western countries.

Ive been to india and for what i gleaned from there, islam in UK is practiced with more sincerity than in india, in india people pray more but every household had inheritance disputes stretching back 60 years and people even today consume the haram wealth they deprive others and you see the disputes their muslim neighbour have with their muslim neighbour. The list goes on but i dont want to bore.

The article you pointed out is based on shia people
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2023 23:30
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abuzayd2k wrote:
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Bismillah.

For an honest case study. The following factors need to be identified.

Of the Arabs who immigrated to Latin America how many were of Christian heritage. And how many identified themselves as Muslim.

Then of those who identified as muslim how many followed authentic Islam. And how many belonged to Shia and other Cults such as Druez, Alawite, Nusayri, etc. All the aforementioned groups are off shoots of the Shia and infact even the twelver shias consider them as Disbelievers.

I think our respected Brother Akbar seems to be unaware that there is large community of Christians in the Areas of historic Shaam (that is Lebanon, Palestine,Syria, Jordan) going back 2000 years. And there are very significant communities of Druez, Alawite, and Nusayri. And there was a huge scale immigration from these communities to Latin America.

Or maybe the objective is to frame the whole situation, as "The Imaan of muslims in the west was saved due to TJ sending Jamaats there. But that of Latin Americans was lost because TJ was unable to send Jamaats there."

The situation is more complex and has a lot more nuisance. And not black and white.

A fairer comparison would be to compare how the Muslim immigrants, who immigrated to African countries over 100 plus years ago many of them from India were able to preserve their Imaan. And why the small community of actual muslims that migrated to Latin American countries lost their Imaan.

The mass scale immigration to the western countries is fairly recent. You cannot make a direct comparison..

What could be done here is look at the Muslims in France, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, United Kingdom, America, Canada. And then make a comparison between the Muslim communities in these countries and how they have faired in comparison to each other. Considering the Mass Immigration to these countries by and large began post 1950.

The foundational basis of the Brothers research is flawed.
Another question needs to be asked is when did TJ begin sending Jamaats to Latin America. I am not sure about other countries but reading Mufti Taqi Usmanis Travelogue the first Jamaats to Brazil went there circa 1970. So how is it that in 50 years the TJ has had a minimal effect in Brazil???



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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd February 2023 02:07
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Whatever inputs I have received, both in India (I have witnessed) and reports I have received from foreign countries,
1. wherever Tableeghi jamaat visited
2. Where ever TJ was received well and locals offered nusrath to them

The environment is different from TJ was not received or local brothers didn't support them.
Even today situation is same, diety worship, mazaar worship continues at places where jamaat is deported on arrival itself.

This is reality based on ground reports.
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