Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

UK is facing a shortage of full-time imams?

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
To appreciate this topic, click 'Appreciate Topic' on the right.
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,281
Brother
9,563
abu mohammed's avatar
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2023 11:36
hyphenonline.com/2023/01/24/low-pay-and-high-demands-the-...

Low pay and high demands: the UK is facing a shortage of full-time imams

Britain’s imams are among the lowest-paid clergy in the UK, causing many to leave their mosques and even change careers
Indlieb Farazi Saber


January 24, 2023
After his first marriage ended seven years ago, Adam Kaan, 42, juggled being a full-time dad with finding a part-time job in which he could work around the needs of his young children. “I was barely getting a wage, up to my eyeballs in debt and in a really bad state,” Kaan recalls.

A qualified business IT teacher, Kaan is also a trained imam who studied Islamic sciences at a seminary in Bolton. Armed with his theological training, he turned to his mosque in Oldham to fill a role as a Qur’an teacher. “I’d get paid £6 an hour. It wasn’t much, but it offered flexible hours and was all I could do at the time,” he said.

After a few months, Kaan approached his senior at the mosque to ask if he could get a 20 pence raise in line with the minimum wage at the time. The mosque refused, and instead replaced him with a member of its committee.

Please follow link for full article.

As tweeted twitter.com/freemonotheist/status/1618021749723140096?s=2...
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0
back to top
Rank Image
Rajab's avatar
Online
Unspecified
1,891
Brother
929
Rajab's avatar
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2023 12:25
It's difficult to bring in imam from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh as salary and accomodation requirement are very stringent compared to 20 years ago.

An English speaking Aalim is able to get a job with a better salary and working conditions elsewhere without having to study any further after their Alimiyyah. The wage is not much but it's still better than what an Imam would get paid and have to put up with from committee members and the congregation. Typical jobs are entry level customer service role, HGV/bus driver, warehouse/ courier worker etc.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Rajab's avatar
Online
Unspecified
1,891
Brother
929
Rajab's avatar
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2023 12:34
This quote sums up the situation but the problem has been that benefits has not risen in line with inflation over the past 15 years.

“It’s done so that they still qualify to apply for universal credit and other benefits — but it means they remain in a perpetual cycle of an impoverished lifestyle. The mosques won’t pay more.”

Some maktab teachers quit after mosques started reporting salaries in line with HMRC guidance as it started affecting their benefits.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,281
Brother
9,563
abu mohammed's avatar
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2023 12:46
If the Imam has a high paypack, he is most likely going to influence the congregation and be able to dictate what's what. If the committee pay a lower income, they control the Imam and that Imam has to comply with Committee rules and not Shar'i rules.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
akbar703's avatar
Offline
India
1,288
Brother
76
akbar703's avatar
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2023 13:22
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


Worst is expected when most of the Huffaz take OTHER jobs and they forget Quran. No time to refresh their memory.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
mSiddiqui's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
559
Brother
102
mSiddiqui's avatar
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2023 13:29
1. I have heard from 2 Buzurgs that Masons have infiltrated the committees of alot of Masjids. Hadrhat Moulana Ridhwaan Kajee has mentioned something similar.

2. They don't pay enough to even meet basic living standards.

3. I'm sorry to put this so bluntly but committees are usually guys that have little to no friends. Losers that oppress when giving positions of authority. But then again Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi رحمہ اللہ تعالیٰ mentions when a person's Islaah isn't done Allah Ta'ala places a Zaalim over him. I have seen Imams throughout Pakistan and Canada and the Sulaha usually don't have any issues. I'm not trying to undermine the situation of the Imams and the committees have no right to behave the way they do. But hopefully this helps people realize Allah Ta'ala puts us in any given scenario due to our A'mal.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
akbar703's avatar
Offline
India
1,288
Brother
76
akbar703's avatar
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 25th January 2023 13:59
mSiddiqui wrote:
View original post


This problem yet to reach India.

Imams, madrasah teachers, muazzins are available from UP, Bihar, Assam, Tripura for salaries as low as thirty pound. They send three thousand to their wife and children. Food and accommodation is free for them. Once in an year, they visit their family for a fortnight. Well wishers arrange for their journey by train/flight. Or they save from their salaries.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abuzayd2k's avatar
Offline
Eraf
1,318
Brother
404
abuzayd2k's avatar
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 26th January 2023 17:00
The situation of imams and mosque custodians in India differs from one region to another.

As brother Akbar pointed out, imams in some areas are able to manage their situation because their community is supportive.

However, there are some ulama and huffaaz in the hinterland who are treated poorly.

In India our local mashaikh also encourage ulama to take up a vocation or acquire a skill that will sustain them financially, so that they are able to preach and guide with wala and bara.

No alim/hafiz should have to endure oppression from mosque committees.

Mosque committees by and large are well intentioned, but due to ignorance of the Shariah, they may end up being unfair to our ulama / huffaaz.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
akbar703's avatar
Offline
India
1,288
Brother
76
akbar703's avatar
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 27th January 2023 08:51
I recall quote from hakeem ul ummat.
You want the ulema to take part time jobs. A day will come part time jobs will be permanent. Your children need Reformation, you will approach ulema, they will respond
"We are busy with our jobs and business, look for support from somewhere else"
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,281
Brother
9,563
abu mohammed's avatar
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 27th January 2023 09:52
Money is a huge issue and one cannot blame them for needing money to fulfil the rights of their family if the amount they receive is minimum.

On the other hand, there are Imam's who are on pay packs of around £40,000/yr due to their qualifications and the services they are able to provide. However, due to politics, the Imam's hold no value/respect so for them, it is better to move on and because of this we see many Imams called over from abroad to stand on the Mimbar instead, at a low wage.

Other Imams have set-up their own institutes and charity organisations from where they help the needy in their own way.

Whilst lesser qualified or lesser educated Huffaz, Aalims etc teach from home and earn much more in cash than some of these highly qualified Imams. So it works both ways I guess.

And to suggest that committee members do things in the best interest of the public and bend the Shar'i rulings is not the case most of the times. We have witnessed some of the highest qualified scholars being dismissed and disregarded at mosques where they are the guest of honors.

Committee members are not in it for the deen according to some views. They are in it for providing a service, even if that means disrespecting scholars in the house of Allah!

إِنَّا لِلَّهِ وَإِنَّ إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
akbar703's avatar
Offline
India
1,288
Brother
76
akbar703's avatar
#11 [Permalink] Posted on 27th January 2023 12:35
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


If money is the issue for management, then where from they get funds for fancies, decoration, luxuries, unnecessary expenditure.

Carpets, marble flooring, expensive minarets and domes, fancy lights etc.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,281
Brother
9,563
abu mohammed's avatar
#12 [Permalink] Posted on 27th January 2023 14:08
akbar703 wrote:
View original post

I meant, money will be an issue for the Imam's. They are as human as everyone else and they also need to make a living to help their families.

Money isn't an issue for management, they have plenty of money for the maintenance of the Masjid through donations. Some Masjid's are managed well whilst other compete with each other :(

In the UK, not all Masjids are as fancy as each other. Some are simple and others are extravagant, it all depends on locality and local funding.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
mSiddiqui's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
559
Brother
102
mSiddiqui's avatar
#13 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2023 08:52
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post

In Canada multiple Masajids have millions in their reserves. Gross misappropriation of funds takes place. "Loans" are taken out by management to purchase houses.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
akbar703's avatar
Offline
India
1,288
Brother
76
akbar703's avatar
#14 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2023 12:31
mSiddiqui wrote:
View original post


I can't advice you...
But.. I quote
Mufti Shafi Sahib RA advised his son Mufti Taqi sahib DB. When you make allegations against someone, make sure you should be able to present and prove before a judge with concrete evidences.
End of quote:

Hearsay, I assume, I presume, I understand, "there is no smoke without fire" .... better be silent.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
akbar703's avatar
Offline
India
1,288
Brother
76
akbar703's avatar
#15 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2023 14:05
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


Today they can be forced to take up part time jobs.

A day will come they cannot balance between the two jobs.

Which one will they give up?

Hadeeth summary is "tomorrow will be worse than today".

We witness, Slope of taqwa is negative. Tableeg, tasawwuf and taleem is to hold on to whatever taqwa we have today.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top