Karguzari from UK heard in India.

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 09:09

abu mohammed wrote:

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Just imagine if the Tabligh jamaat were to preach to non Muslims! What an effect that would've had.

Today the real hero is Dr zakir naik, millions of muslims have accepted Islam across the globe.

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However Islam reached the corners of the world, it was the will of Allah and should not be claimed as the work of one group of people or one individual. Allah makes use of what He wills!

Yeah true!!! Islam reached all corners of world, it was will of Allah, Sahabah's contribution, aahhh. Allah makes use of what He wills! But it cannot be denied that where ever sahabah didn't reach, Islam didn't reach.

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 09:11

abu mohammed wrote:

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However Islam reached the corners of the world, it was the will of Allah and should not be claimed as the work of one group of people or one individual. Allah makes use of what He wills!

Allah SWT didn not will to reform the Central American migrant muslims and the TJs didn't reach there. There was/is wide spread Irtidaad there. millions!!

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 09:29

akbar703 wrote:

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One day, someone asked Mufti Saeed Ahmed Palanpuri if Sahaba reached the UK or not. Mufti Saeed Ahmed Palanpuri replied, "What difference will that make to your iman now?"

akbar703 wrote:

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There are approximately 1.7 million Muslims living across Central and South America.

There are approximately 100,000 Muslims in Venezuela which make up 0.4 percent of the nation's population. Venezuela has a small but influential Muslim population.

Panama has double the number of Muslims compared to Jews. 24,000 Muslims and growing InshaAllah.

Read more on how Islam got to Panama, how the Muslims went on living their lives
www.islamawareness.net/LatinAmerica/panama.html

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 10:04

abu mohammed wrote:

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One day, someone asked Mufti Saeed Ahmed Palanpuri if Sahaba reached the UK or not. Mufti Saeed Ahmed Palanpuri replied, "What difference will that make to your iman now?"

Credit must be given to sahabah from local people where Islam reached. And people were unlucky where Sahabah didn't visit them.

Regarding UK, Islam reached through ghulamaan e sahabah, indirectly credit goes to Sahabah only.

Regarding Venezuela; I quote :

April 23, 1993

Until now, the only mosque for the Venezuela’s approximately 300,000 Muslims was in the western city of Valencia.

End of quote:

I also heard disturbing first hand report from one of the two masjids.

Now let us compare UK and Venezuela.

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 11:17

Ibn Ghafoor wrote:

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Bismillah.

Its sarcasm and this was one of the objections raised against TJ when the second Ameer of TJ Maulana Yusuf, started sending Jamaats abroad. "Why are you sending Jamaats abroad when Muslims in India nèed reform."

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 11:24

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

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When brothers offer first hand report from UK, shouldn't I accept those facts. I can claim that visiting TJ sathees did ghuloo while reporting about UK.

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 11:54

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Bismillah.

Well fact is millions around the world have benefitted from work of TJ. But there is no need to spread exaggerated fables and stories. About how the Muslims were misguided in UK and suddenly TJ visited and the entire country became transformed. That is simply not the case. TJ and most notably Hafiz Patel the Amir of U.K. did alot of work but TJ were the only one group did work here.

And vast majority of people are not Tablighis.

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 11:58

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I requested in my earlier post, what is contribution of TJ towards UK muslims reformation.
100%, 50%, or a few grams of catalyst added to already reformed society.

I have concluded from the UK residents' views that there is (exaggeration) ghuloo by TJ members. TJ contribution is just final touches to already reformed society.

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 12:12

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TJ made contrubution but it was neither 100% nor was it 50% nor was the society already reformed in 1955 when the first TJ came here nor was it totally misguided.

The seeds that elders planted that is foundations they layed in setting up masajids and dar ul ulooms and Maktabs started bearing fruit in the early 1990's onwards.

In short the contribution was 100% by our elders themselves who first arrived. Vast majority could not read write or speak English. But they would find someone who could fill in the forms make planning applications. And I am old enough to remember our elders going door to door to raise money for building of Masajid and Islamic institutions.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 12:14

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When I went to India to visit my family, I was 15 years old.

I sat in a talk after salah. The Imam said a few things and it really got on my nerves! I couldn't take it. I spoke to my dad about it and he didn't want to listen. Then i spoke to my grandad about it and explained my concerns.

I said, "The imam in the Masjid said that when you get up from a seating position and you feel that little discomfort, we should say, 'Ya Rasulullah' and then get up. When doing or starting anything, we should say 'Ya Rasulullah'"

I explained to my grandad that this is not permitted as we can only seek help from Allah (told him about the verses of Surah Fatiha) then I went on and told gave him examples of Christians and how they say, 'O Jesus' and then what would be the difference between them and us. Or if a non Muslim were to hear us say 'O Muhammad', wouldn't they think that we are calling out to a man instead of Allah!

He understood my point and kept it in mind. He also understood that I didn't agree with their imam on many aspects. But due to ignorance, they continued to follow, listen and obey.

A few years later, my grandad told me that their imam ran away because it was later found out that he wasn't really as qualified as he made out. And he appreciated that his grandson was able to distinguish the right from the wrong. But because I was British born, I was considered a no one (which is true) and ignored.

This was my understanding of the situation of the Muslims in India. This would be my "Karguzari told in the UK from India!"

Would i be lying? No
Would i be correct? Partially?
Why? Because I'm not looking at the bigger picture and taking it out of context.

My karguzari is based on one Masjid, one imam, one incident, one teenager and many years ago.

I can't go round telling people, this is the plight of India or this was the plight of Indians.

Ghuloo or not, facts, context, time and so on. All are relevant. Otherwise, completely misunderstood and misleading

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 13:10

abu mohammed wrote:

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I am born and brought up in my city. I have travelled to many major cities and town.
The situation or you call it plight of Muslims in India is/was worse.
In Your short stay, you witnessed a minute fraction of it.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 13:25

akbar703 wrote:

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Bismillah.

Well I know people have a habit of narrating whatever, they hear back home in Indo/Pak without verification or qualification.

Here in the UK you have to provide evidence and people will ask you to back up your claims with evidence.

So far in this thread we have a story about an unknown elder in uknown city in U.K. stating muslims in U.K. did not know about Eid in Ramadan in the 1950's.

The we have your statement that Australian cricketers Steve and Mark Waugh are descendants of Afghan Mujahadeen and I reasearched and no they dont have Afghan ancestry.

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 13:38

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I don't even understand how this all started, lol

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 14:41

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

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From 1788 to 1868 Britain transported more than 160,000 convicts from its overcrowded prisons to the Australian colonies, forming the basis of the first migration from Europe to Australia

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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2023 15:34

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During later parts of 19th Century (1860s) the British decided to build railway in order to connect the far flung areas of Australia with each other. A 4000 kilometers long railway line was to be built from one coast to another starting fom Adelaide and ending at Darwin. The proposed railway line was to cross the entire Australian desert and was a gigantic and cost consuming project. It also required camels in large numbers and its handlers/Cameleers plus cheap labour.

Camels were abundantly used in desert parts of Baluchistan and southern Afghanistan at that time (and even now days) as main mode of transportation. British rulers of India started aquiring the services of the Camel owners and riders from this region for the railway project in Australia. Nearly 500 camels and 2000 plus cameleers were shipped from India to Australia. Although these people were a mixture of Pashtuns and Balochs/Barohis/Sindhis but were collectively called as Afghans or later on as Ghans.

The Afghan Cameleers mostly or all got settled in Australia upon completion of the Rail project. They mostly got married to the aborigines and in some cases with white women. Traveling back to their native places were extremely difficult at that time. They therefore blended and merged with local culture and lost touch with their roots or religion in due course of time

One of Train that travels from Adelaide to Darwin in Australia is still called "”Ghan Train" which travels through the Ghan settlements and small railway stations dotted in the vast desrt of Australia. Ghan villages have Muslim cemeteries.and tin
mosques and are being preserved by the Government as a lot of tourists visits these places.

Waugh family is rumoured to be from such Afghan or Ghan origin. Both the Waugh twin brorthers, Mark & Steve, have played as top class Cricketers for Australia but have never openly admitted their Afghan or Pashtun origin. (Many times cricket commentators used the word "AfghanBrothers")

...............
My addition:

Brothers who traveled to Australia were shown abandoned structures facing qibla, believed to be masjids used by migrants during laying of Railway tracks.
travelled

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Karguzari from UK heard in India.

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