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Moulana Saad.....again.

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2022 13:54
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So did Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh) intend for an ameer to be appointed? The shura was just to appoint an ameer and take care of things until an ameer was appointed?
Yes, according to some elders who were present in the time of Maulana Inam (RA).

Maulana Inam (RA) said to his fellow workers towards the end of his life that he was getting old, and they should think about appointing a successor. He then set up a group of around a dozen old workers from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Arabia (this being Maulana Saeed Khan Makki (RA) who had migrated to Makkah) and told them to decide on an ameer.

After the passing away of Maulana Inam (RA), the group got together, but were unable to decide on a single ameer when it came down to Maulana Zubair (RA) and Maulana Saad Sahab. Each one of the two felt that most workers of Mewat would only be satisfied with Maulana Saad Sahab, and most workers of Delhi would only be satisfied with Maulana Zubair (RA). So, a matter of compromise was reached where a three member head shura was formed with Maulana Izhar (RA) (senior most), Maulana Zubair (RA), and Maulana Saad Sahab. Maulana Izhar (RA) passed away only six months later, and Maulana Zubair (RA) and Maulana Saad Sahab continued as a two member head shura until the passing away of Maulana Zubair (RA).
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2022 14:26
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Yes, according to some elders who were present in the time of Maulana Inam (RA).


Any idea why only SOME elders? I can't understand why this would be so difficult. Either Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh) instructed an ameer to be appointed or he didn't. Any idea what the other elders say about this?

Quote:
Maulana Inam (RA) said to his fellow workers towards the end of his life that he was getting old, and they should think about appointing a successor. He then set up a group of around a dozen old workers from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Arabia (this being Maulana Saeed Khan Makki (RA) who had migrated to Makkah) and told them to decide on an ameer.

After the passing away of Maulana Inam (RA), the group got together, but were unable to decide on a single ameer when it came down to Maulana Zubair (RA) and Maulana Saad Sahab. Each one of the two felt that most workers of Mewat would only be satisfied with Maulana Saad Sahab, and most workers of Delhi would only be satisfied with Maulana Zubair (RA). So, a matter of compromise was reached where a three member head shura was formed with Maulana Izhar (RA) (senior most), Maulana Zubair (RA), and Maulana Saad Sahab. Maulana Izhar (RA) passed away only six months later, and Maulana Zubair (RA) and Maulana Saad Sahab continued as a two member head shura until the passing away of Maulana Zubair (RA).


So they went against the instructions given by Moulana Inamul Hassan رضي الله عنه?

Maybe it was a big mistake to pander to both groups? TJ have always emphasised having one ameer and acting on the instructions given by the ameer. They went against their own usools? They did not follow the instructions of their ameer Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh), and they did not appoint ONE ameer after the passing of Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh). As the tablighis say, if there is no ameer then shaitan becomes the ameer. From my understanding there is no precedence in Islam to permanently have no ameer.

According to my tablighi friend, from the whole shura the only surviving original member is Moulana Saad, and hence why Moulana Saad claimed leadership of tablighi jamaat.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2022 14:44
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Any idea why only SOME elders? I can't understand why this would be so difficult. Either Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh) instructed an ameer to be appointed or he didn't. Any idea what the other elders say about this?
Some of the other elders say that Maulana Inam (RA) had once said something to the effect that "Imarat now makes people arrogant." Earlier, ameers used to be appointed by Markaz Nizamuddin for local regional centers across the country (as well as the world), but due to personal clashes between members in some local regional centers, a compromise was made and clashing members were told to work together as a shura, and no one would be made ameer.
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So they went against the instructions given by Moulana Inamul Hassan رضي الله عنه?
Each group followed their own interpretation of what Maulana Inam (RA) meant by his words.
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Maybe it was a big mistake to pander to both groups? TJ have always emphasised having one ameer and acting on the instructions given by the ameer. They went against their own usools? They did not follow the instructions of their ameer Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh), and they did not appoint ONE ameer after the passing of Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh). As the tablighis say, if there is no ameer then shaitan becomes the ameer. From my understanding there is no precedence in Islam to permanently have no ameer.
I would have to agree with this. Some ulama among the original shura also were concerned that Miyaji Mehrab (RA) did not take the decision to appoint a single ameer.
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According to my tablighi friend, from the whole shura the only surviving original member is Moulana Saad, and hence why Moulana Saad claimed leadership of tablighi jamaat.
On numerous visits to Markaz Nizamuddin over decades, we witnessed Moulana Zubair (RA) and Maulana Saad Sahab leading mashwara. In their absence, it was usually Maulana Ibrahim Dewla Sahab who was made in-charge of Markaz affairs.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 7th August 2022 20:24
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Jzk for the reply. Just letting you know I haven't ignored it and I appreciate it.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 8th August 2022 03:22
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Jazakallah, acknowledgement appreciated.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2022 07:02
Sorry I am late in this, I'd like to point out that the the 3 council that was appointed in 1995 was for the Management of Markaz Affairs, not as world Ameer.

Maulana Saad was 30 years old that time. How is it possible that the much senior elders such as Maulana Umar Palanpuri and Bhai Wahab of Pakistan was sidelined?

This 3 person arrangement was for the management of the Markaz, not to be World Amir.

This is a fact.

Regardless, even if he is the rightful Amir by succession, he did two mistakes
- He claimed Amiraat in 2014 (after maulana Zubair) passed away without the approval of the World Shura (Bhai Wahab was still alive)
- Deoband has issued fatawaa against him. How can someone like this be Amir?
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2022 20:23
due2myweakness wrote:
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Sorry I am late in this, I'd like to point out that the the 3 council that was appointed in 1995 was for the Management of Markaz Affairs, not as world Ameer.


Salaam.

So the shura was just a management committee for Nizamuddin Markaz?
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2022 22:59
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Yes, this is just known facts. As simple as that

Maulana Inamul Hassan enacted the world Shura in 1995, which contained 10 members
  • Moulana Saeed Ahmed Khan (92 years old then)
  • Mufti Zainul Aabideen
  • Moulana Umar Palanpuri
  • Moulana Izhaar ul Hasan
  • Moulana Zubair ul Hasan saab
  • Miyaji Mahrab saab
  • Haji Abdul Wahab saab (42 years old then)
  • Haji Engineer Abdul Muqeet
  • Haji Afzal saab
  • Moulana Saad saab (30 years old then)


10 June 1995 Maulana Inamul Hasan passed away

Brothers from MS side claims that the 10 shura appointed 3 amirs. In reality these people were the managers of the Markaz Affairs
  • Moulana Izhaar ul Hasan saab
  • Moulana Zubair ul Hasan saab
  • Moulana Saad saab


Maulana Saad at that time was exactly 30 years old! (He was born in 1965). This is a very young age for any standards. He has not gone in extended khuruujs.
If this was the 3 amirs, how is it that Moulana Saeed Ahmed Khan, Moulana Umar Palanpuri, Haji Abdul Wahab saab were all sidelined? Does this make sense? Definitely not.

I'm trying to put it in the nicest way possible that some groups are just being fed with lies or conspiracy theories.



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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 25th August 2022 07:42
due2myweakness wrote:
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So what instructions did Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh) leave, and what arrangements were made in regards to the leadership of Tabligh Jamaat itself?
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 25th August 2022 12:58
due2myweakness wrote:
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Exactly
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 25th August 2022 13:29
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I would suggest you speak to some of the senior elders of Tabligh in the UK about this, that would give you a better understanding. Also read Dr76's posts about this topic, everything's in detail in there.

Majority of the senior Ulama/elders of the world support the shura, many senior elders left Nizamuddin after having spending their entire lives there. Dr Sanaullah sb (who started the work of Tabligh in France), Moulana Ibrahim Devla sb (one of the most senior Tablighis right now, one of Moulana Saad sbs teachers, also a student of Moulana Husain Ahmed Madani sb RA) Moulana Ahmed Laat sb, (Khadim of Hadhrat ji RA for around 30 yrs) , Dr Khalid Siddiqui sb, and so many others. Many of these elders had been involved in Tabligh since the time of Moulana Yusuf sb RA, even before Moulana Saad sb was born!

Moulana Yaqoob sb RA (teacher of Moulana Saad sb, also Moulana Saads sb father Moulana Haroon) also did not agree with what was going on in Nizamuddin, although he continued to reside in Nizamuddin. All the elders in Pakistan are on the shura side, Moulana Ehsan sb (Khalifa of Hadhrat Shaykh), Moulana Nazur Rahman sb, (current Ameer of Raiwand) Moulana Ahmed Bahawalpur RA, Moulana Kurshid sb, etc etc.

Hafiz Patel sbs older sons (Moulana Saeed Patel etc) left Dewsbury Markaz after the ikhtalaaf happened, also Moulana Yusuf Darvan sb who was one of the senior ustaads of the Madrasah in Dewsbury Markaz and some of Hafiz sbs closest associates (Shamsi sb, Bhai Ishaq sb RA etc).

Alhamdulillah there are many elders alive within England who know exactly what happened in 1995's Mashwara and what exactly is the right tarteeb.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 25th August 2022 16:21
Ibn Ghafoor wrote:
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Salaam.

That doesn't answer my question, brother.

My question...


So what instructions did Moulana Inamul Hassan (rh) leave, and what arrangements were made in regards to the leadership of Tabligh Jamaat itself?
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 25th August 2022 17:45
xs11ax wrote:
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W'Salam. Speak to the senior elders of Tabligh in England. You should go to Blackburn Markaz and you'll find them. There are many elders within England who perhaps themselves were witnesses or have direct links with people who were witnesses to the 1995 events.

Alhamdulillah the work of Tabligh in England is perhaps the strongest in the west after South Africa.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 25th August 2022 19:11
Ibn Ghafoor wrote:
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Brother. You have replied with 2 comments already. If you know then just tell me. If you don't know then just say you don't know.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 25th August 2022 23:55
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Maulana Inaamul Hassan did not gave any explicit instruction to what was supposed to be done by the 10 Shuura Council. The people who follow MS, claims it is implied that Maulana Inamul Hassan wanted the next Amir to be selected. This was never explicitly mentioned. Though they always claim so, by quoting the election of Caliph Uthman RA which was done through a 6 shura council.

Right after Maulana Inamul Hasan's departure, the 10 shura council did a lengthy meeting that took hours. The out come of the meeting has been eye witnessed by Bhai Wahab and Maulana Yaqoob, as they were there.

Exact Bhai Wahab's statement was:

After the demise of Maulana Inaamul Hassan, we gathered for Mashwara. Lot of confusion, a lot of issues were discussed and the meeting lasted for many hours. Finally it was decided by mutual understanding of all the attendees in the mashwara (including Maulana Saad) that now the noble work of tabligh will be managed through the mashwara of the Shura System to avoid any further conflict. We all agreed and accepted this regulation. After this Maulana Saad demanded in the Mashwara that Bayat will not be done inside Nizamuddin premise which is also accepted by mutual understanding of all attendees

The decision was to very clear that from now on, no more Amir, just Shuura. This was a known fact. MS himself was adamant about this and proposed to abolish Bayat. Until now MS have never denied this fact. It is highly unlikely that Bhai Wahab / Ml Yaqub is blatantly lying. Also the transmission of this is clear from all elders.

The 3 people council created was for managing Nizamuddin/India affairs. Though, since in the past, the Amir of Nizamuddin/India is the Amir of the world, this is where the brothers from MS group are holding upon. The reason why they have to hold Nizamudin on such a high esteem.

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