Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Conversation with an Atheist and Umar Palanpuri

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
hammad880
Rank Image
sheikhonderun's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
73
Brother
84
sheikhonderun's avatar
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 5th February 2022 12:58
This is an excerpt from one of Umar Palanpuri’s speeches. Its translated more or less meaning. My notes are in brackets.

We were travelling in an airplane. My neighboring passenger was an atheist. We became acquainted and started conversing. Initially he used to worship idols but later on became an atheist.

He asked me ” I want to ask you something”.

I said “sure”.

He asked “in this world there are millions of people who believe in God, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews but it amazes me that no one has seen God so how do they accept God? What I cannot see how can I accept? Forgive me but I have asked several monks but they were not able pacify my concerns. Talking to you perhaps you can help me understand that God we are not able to see how can we accept Him?”

He was a doctor as well, obtained degree from Tokyo and he was travelling back to his country. I said “ok, without seeing, millions of people across the world accept millions of things. Even in those countries where atheism has spread there are millions of people who accept millions of things without seeing.”

He said “forget millions, just show me one or two” without seeing they accept something.

I said “one condition; what is accepted without seeing is based on signs. Without signs they will not be accepted. A person sees something and accepts it. When will he accept without seeing? Even though he is not able to see the thing, he is able (to acknowledge it) by seeing its signs.” He started to think deeply on this.

I told him “nothing to worry let me explain. Your intellect and my intellect. Are you able to see this? No you cannot see it. All the passengers on this airplane are you able to see any of their intellect? Have you ever seen in your life any human’s intellect? Tell me do you accept intellect exists or not?”

He said ” I accept”.

I said “You don’t accept blindly. Rather you accept it based on inference. You say I possess intellect. Because I am exhibiting signs of possessing intellect. And what is that sign? That man doesn’t speak incoherently. He works properly. And if he doesn’t possess intellect. Then he doesn’t speak coherently, throws stones at you, curses (without reason). Thus, you accepted the ‘intellect’ based on its signs. You didn’t accept it by seeing it.”

He said “yes that’s there”. So without seeing you accept it but you accepted it by seeing its signs.

I said ” another example there is soul inside of you and there is soul inside of me. Have you seen this soul? When you are operating on someone (hospital) you cannot visually see the soul? But he is alive. You accept there is a soul without seeing. You acknowledged it via its signs. And what is that sign? In a man his eyes see, ears can hear, tongue speaks, hands can hold, feet can walk. These are signs (he is alive and possesses a soul). From this you infer that he is alive. Insects don’t come to sleeping snake but to dead snake they do. Vulture doesn’t eat a sleeping man, but to dead body it does. Both me and you (doctor) accept there is soul. So do insects and vultures acknowledge (there is soul) even though they cannot see it. Rather we accept (soul exists) through its signs.”

He was receptive to this so did several other passengers sitting in the airplane. So I have shown two things: intellect and soul. Without seeing you accept them but you accept them based on their signs.

I said “take third example as well. In a jungle, if you see a house right away in your mind you will think this house was not self created. Rather this house must have a builder. Have you seen this builder?”

He said “No”.

I said “Do you accept there is builder without seeing him?”

He said ” I accept”.

I said “But you cannot indicate whether builder is black or white, tall or short. But you would have to concede that this house has builder. This ‘house’ is a sign of that it has a builder. Three examples have been given. Taken another fourth one. I accept you are a doctor. I have not seen you attending college. I have not seen your certificate. But I still accept you as doctor. Why? Because you have signs within you that indicate you are doctor. You attend ill patients, their health improves from this I ascertain that you are doctor. This is a sign. I will give fifth example after this I am not going to give sixth example as there are millions of these. I will give you fifth example that even an illiterate will accept.”

He said “what is that?”

I said “In a desert a camel passed by, a Bedouin didn’t visually see a camel walking by but saw its droppings and imprints of its foot. Does Bedouin without seeing the camel acknowledge there is a camel or not?”

He said “Yes he will acknowledge”.

I said “without seeing, an illiterate man acknowledges (there is camel) by seeing its droppings. Doctor you are educated so are millions out there but they don’t even know this much that the large sky, land, moon, sun, unclean drops of semen through which this huge man comes into existence, small seed which give rise to large trees, on these trees fruits grow, there is juice in these fruits. All of these are not signs that there is creator (behind them). Through its dropping you understand there is a camel but you don’t understand through heavens and earth there is a creator! This creator is who we call Allah and we believe in Him without seeing Him rather (believe in Him) through his signs.”

sheikhonderun.wordpress.com/2022/02/05/conversation-with-...
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Rajab's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
1,536
Brother
757
Rajab's avatar
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 5th February 2022 21:33
Thank you for translating but you need to use punctuation in your titles because all of them come across poorly
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
sheikhonderun's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
73
Brother
84
sheikhonderun's avatar
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2022 03:43
Rajab wrote:
View original post


How would you have changed the title with correct punctuation?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Rajab's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
1,536
Brother
757
Rajab's avatar
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2022 12:32
@maripat will be able to better explain as English grammar is not my forte. here it reads like Hazrat Maulana Umar Palanpuri Rahmatullahi Alaiyh was an atheist, nauzubillah.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
4
Brother
4
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2022 12:52
sheikhonderun wrote:
View original post


Conversation between an atheist and Umar Palanpuri
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 1
back to top
Yasin's avatar
UK
6,566
Brother
1,374
Yasin's avatar
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2022 13:30
muslimbrother wrote:
View original post


Thread title corrected accordingly. Jazakallah
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
3,269
Brother
3,503
Maripat's avatar
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2022 13:59
Rajab wrote:
View original post

Quote:
@maripat will be able to better explain as English grammar is not my forte. here it reads like Hazrat Maulana Umar Palanpuri Rahmatullahi Alaiyh was an atheist, nauzubillah.

My preference would be for the following title:

Maulana Umar Palanpuri Sahab RA : Conversation with an Atheist

But the corrected title too is fine.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
sheikhonderun's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
73
Brother
84
sheikhonderun's avatar
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2022 15:01
Yasin wrote:
View original post


JazakhAllah Khair
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
sheikhonderun's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
73
Brother
84
sheikhonderun's avatar
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2022 15:02
Rajab wrote:
View original post


Now I get what you were trying to convey earlier. JazakhAllah Khair
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top