"The time of dajjal will be years of confusion. People will believe a liar, and disbelieve one who tells the truth. People will distrust one who is trustworthy, and trust one who is treacherous."
(Ahmad) (Ibn Kathir)
It seems we are no longer allowed to debate any of the covid related posts on the forum. I just want to urge people to not just take these posts at face value, but to research them for themselves. It's not difficult. For example; just Google the name of any person who has been put forward and quoted as an expert. I did this for a recent post and the results were very interesting. I will not mention the name or post as I don't want this thread to be restricted in any way.
There is a lot of confusion regarding covid, lockdown, the vaccine, and restrictions that the governments of the world have implemented. There is a lot of confusion in regards to the opposition. Both sides make seemingly good points and arguments, but I have found that the arguments are sometimes quite flimsy when you delve into them.
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Regardless whether you believe the official narrative or you don't believe in the official narrative, I believe that one thing is true, which is that our world has changed and may further change due to the current situation. These changes may have a huge impact on our lives as a muslim and on our children's lives. Some of these changes will have a direct impact and some will have an indirect impact. Some of these changes may lead to a breakdown of our muslim communities. Losing this would be absolutely devastating for us.
I think the effects of the measures put into place due to the pandemic are just as important if not more important than the pandemic itself, yet I have not come across our community discussing that. The World Economic Forum has presented a post covid plan, which in my opinion may be very problematic. It further shifts the reliance of the individual to his/her community and makes the individual more and more reliant on the government or world government as they are proposing. The muslim community has thrived relatively unchanged due to our self reliance, self organisation, self isolation within our own communities. This has helped us hang on to our identity and ideals where other communities have lost theirs.
I have a lot of scattered thoughts about this 'Brave New World' and invite other people's thoughts on the new covid and post covid world we are living in and may live in in the future.
Just to clarify, this is not about covid or the vaccine. This is about the effects that the pandemic has had on society and our muslim community and the further effects that we may be impacted with in a post covid society.
For example; just Google the name of any person who has been put forward and quoted as an expert.
Google, the divine researchers gospel lol.
Quote from the original thread if you bothered reading beyond the subject line:
Quote:
When someone in the medical community speaks out against the World Health Organizations’ policies or the mainstream narrative they are quickly attacked and demonized by the corporate media. Dr. Shallenberger is no exception to this rule. The following letter is his advice to his own patients. Before you Google Dr. Shallenberger’s name and see all the attacks on him, here is a link that can help provide some perspective and balance to any due diligence.
If you don't already know that then I can only feel sorry for you and good luck with all your Google research in the future.
xs11ax wrote:
Just to clarify, this is not about covid or the vaccine. This is about the effects that the pandemic has had on society and our muslim community and the further effects that we may be impacted with in a post covid society.
I think it's impacted every person of every religion in every corner of the world. Not just Muslims. I believe this episode will split the world into 2 groups, the fearful obedient people concerned about death and harming others and the ones concerned about freedom and harming society and life as we know it. Both might be concerned for the right reasons but we'll be fighting each other instead of the ones controlling the show. I think every person knows what group they're in. I also believe this issue is beyond religion because "faith" has disappeared from many who put it first previously. I have experienced this decline in Imaan from elders and youngsters alike.
Either back up all the points in that paragraph or please remove it as you're not talking generally and attacking a specific member/post and this will lead to arguments and nonsense.
The rest of the post is fine. Just that one paragraph please update with backup or remove so I can enable your post again.
I didn't want the OP disabled as it's a good post otherwise so I re-enabled it and removed the paragraph and sent it to you by PM so you can add it back with backup if needed.
I will not mention the name or post as I don't want this thread to be restricted in any way.
It followed after this. If it was posted on its own without the above that the member already replied to then it would have been fine. As it followed this, it's connected hence it's an attack on a post/member with no substantial information to be valid on its own. You are free to restore it by backing it up which is a reasonable request made on many posts otherwise leave it removed to stop this thread ending up in debates as that is where it'll lead to. It always does.
While people are having fun at Forums by posting "myths" from disqualified Doctors, here is Janazah Salah of "Junaid Khan"
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Why was a young man shot dead? He was providing escort of the Polio vaccination team and tried to intervene and save the team.
His partner has lost one eye and is in critical condition at the Hospital.
Both come from poor families, have young children and got shot due to "conspiracy theories" despite Fatwaas of Muft Taqi Usmani (HA) and all Ulama of Pakistan.
Villagers shot two agents of Dajjal and consider it an act of virtue.
A Maulana and a close friend of mine both "at risk" called me to discuss vaccinations because of "Brothers" discussing issues at the Mosque. The Mosques have organized Programs from Ulama, Doctors who answered questions these "brothers" were absent from all programs and dared not to ask anything in Public but were there in the Next Salah "propagating theories" from YouTube videos
None of them have a clue of what is being said and those talking can't explain themselves either.
There is a Maulana whom I have known for years and talks to me about XYZ all the time, won't discuss COVID-19 but keeps spreading every conspiracy video without even knowing the language or content so I left the forum because this isn't about "content" but about "distrust and mindset" and as Ulama are saying that
This will cost Lives.
Whoever wants to be part of it, let it be on their conscious and on their book of deeds on the day of Judgement.
Whether a person believes in covid and the vaccine or not, no one can deny the changes it has brought into our lives on a local and global scale. Some groups are proposing changes for a post covid world. Society may be somewhat different in the near future then it is now. These changes may have a direct and indirect affect on the Muslim community. I think we as a community should preemptively explore any anticipated changes and see how it may affect us and explore how we can dampen or negate any negative effects.
In the midst of all the confusion, ultimately, who decides who is correct?
As I understand, the liars will out number those speaking the truth by far!
Ulema are saying the most pathetic things and on the other hand, other ulema are saying the opposite. It's not just doctors and commoners.
For the record, because it seems to be going that way. I don't think we are living through a conspiracy. I think we are living through a time of fear and exaggeration. People are dealing with an unknown and it's causing fear and confusion and these are multiplied into exaggerations.
There is confusion in the origin. Fact
There are exaggerated linked deaths. Fact
The registered average number of people dying has increased by a little. Fact
There is uncertainty. Fact
No one can dispute any of these, so until these aren't made conclusive, how do you decide which is true and which is false?
There is existential threat because of lying, deception and Ego trips.
Example 1: Birmingham Central Mosque
Let me illustrate with an example from many over the years on this forum.
Years ago, a member of this Forum got a Fatwa issued on Maulana Tariq Jameel Saheb (HA) because he gave a talk at Birmingham Central Mosque from South Africa. The South African Alim also lambasted Birmingham Central Mosque based on his email that men and women intermix at the Mosque and there is “pinching of women” by men at the Mosque etc.
This poster lives a few miles from Birmingham Central Mosque. When he did that, I picked up the Phone and called him to say “I understand that you are against women attending Mosques but you know that this pinching women business does not happen and cannot happen so why did you lie on the Forum and to a Mufti?”
There are so many posters on this forum from Birmingham. All can easily testify to this lie and the Forum Management should have banned this person for lying.
My issue has always been people lying, not accepting when they are wrong and continuing to deceive. Disagreement isn’t the issue.
Science is steeped in disagreement. In the case of COVID-19, those disagree are saying that “Experts” which we quote don’t know their own field and subject matter but the “obscure and disqualified experts” which they quote know the “other field” better those who are qualified.
This is important to understand. I have seen posts on this forum about COVID-19 where Gynaecologists are being propagated as Vaccine experts but Virologists and Epidemiologists are being dismissed. I take no pride in saying this but I feel that many readers here do not even know the difference between a Gynaecologist and “Research Immunologists” or “Ugur Sahin” and Ugur Sahin” who participated in the Vaccine research….To them Doctor is a Doctor even if he or she is a Doctor in Ice-cream melting points from University of Nebraska.
These “so called” experts never discuss any technical details, never show up and ask questions but all they do is post dubious theories and they have found fertile ground on this forum due to the direction of the Shura and Administration.
Science is based on scrutiny and not forum posting! Let them robustly challenge the issue as happens every single day in Journals around the world but No, all they do is create blogs and as I said:
It will cost Lives.
As long as everyone is satisfied with the knowledge and comfortable with reckoning from Allah Ta’ala, not much can be done.
So me and you, disagree.
You seem to be rather resigned to the “chaos” while I am addressing the root cause of the Chaos which is lying, deception and at best (massive misunderstanding).
Apart from that, another issue is “Ego”! Over the years I have seen so many posters who have no evidence, no research but just will not admit that they were wrong and will simply move away from the thread or not answer questions and refuse to engage.
Again, the Forum Management and Administration allows it to happen. Once a person chooses to engage in a conversation their feet should be held to the fire and they should not be allowed to post unless and until they exhaust that topic and reveal their evidence and sources.
Nothing wrong with disagreement in Islam but there are massive problems with lying, deception and simply moving away from a topic because the person does not want to admit their error.
Unless and until the root cause is addressed, the "issues" will keep cropping up and you will keep fighting fires.
"Lives will be lost" "Confusing times" and I agree with these comments by my brother's.
Please do as my brother OP has suggested. Find out who this is. Have I been wrong all this time? I sincerely apologise for any confusion caused from my part.
This video goes through almost everything we've discussed on this and other forums.
As of now, I will do my utmost to share work of top officials on the matter.
Published on 29 Dec 2020
This sit down interview with Sucharit Bhakdi about the current situation we find ourselves in. He is the most cited microbiologist in German academic history, an authority if there ever was one Shocked by the events of this year, he is speaking out about the scientific fallacies and human rights abuses at work now.
Dr Reiner Fuellmich is.a German American lawyer with experience going after large companies like Deutsche Bank. He is a member of the German Corona Investigative Committee. He discusses the current situation and his efforts to bring justice to the situation.
This interview was done as apart of the full length documentary. We are releasing the full interview for the betterment of public understanding of the situation.
The full film, when released, will be available at PlanetLockdownFilm
Full Biography:
Sucharit Bhakdi was born in Washington, DC, and educated at schools in Switzerland, Egypt, and Thailand. He studied medicine at the University of Bonn in Germany, where he received his MD in 1970. He was a post-doctoral researcher at the Max Planck Institute of Immunobiology and Epigenetics in Freiburg from 1972 to 1976, and at The Protein Laboratory in Copenhagen from 1976 to 1977. He joined the Institute of Medical Microbiology at Giessen University in 1977 and was appointed associate professor in 1982. He was named chair of Medical Microbiology at the University of Mainz in 1990, where he remained until his retirement in 2012. Dr. Bhakdi has published over three hundred articles in the fields of immunology, bacteriology, virology, and parasitology, for which he has received numerous awards and the Order of Merit of Rhineland-Palatinate. Sucharit Bhakdi and his wife, Karina Reiss, live with their three-year-old son, Jonathan Atsadjan, in a small village near the city of Kiel.
If you actually understood or had the capability to understand you would present "your point of understanding" instead of quoting 44 minute videos to people. You would actually make a point which made sense in your own head.
Now, you will resort to nothing but sarcasm and insults or won't say anything of relevance in this thread. And I am sure that this is also common knowledge on the "streets of New York City"!
I've read it and noted their conclusions on each point.
There is confusion being caused by and amongst the experts. We are merely the laypeople.
There is no need for sarcasm because misinformation will cause loss of lives too.
Lives will be lost when the wrong actions are taken.
Lives will be lost when doctors create confusion
Lives will be lost when scholars from our own academia will mislead laypeople.
We need doctors who speak the truth backed with evidence and we need scholars to speak the truth backed with evidence, not to be politically correct. State the facts not the myths.
(I might have inadvertently given the impression that I'm from New York, my bad. Queens is linked to where I'm from, so that's for me to know and not for anyone to find out)
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
We apologise but you have been denied access to report posts in this thread. This could be due to excessively reporting posts and not understanding our forum rules. For assistance or information, please use the forum help thread to request more information. Jazakallah
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