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Musa AS and Samiri (Dr Israr RA)

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 11:45
https://youtu.be/euwAUv8jVqI

Dr Israr RA explaining the event of Musa AS and Samiri using the tafseer of Shaykhul Hind RA (of the akabir of ulama of Deoband).

"Musa AS hastened to Koh Toor (Mount Sinai or Jabal Musa) to receive the commandments and arrived before his appointed time."

His haste is termed an error in the explanation given by Dr Israr RA.

This is the same language that was used by Maulana Saad HA.

Everyone makes mistakes, but the "toofan e badtamizi" (ad hominem attacks) were heartbreaking to watch and read.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 13:04
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Loading Qur'aan Verse

Page 134 of Marriful-Qur'aan.

qurantranslations.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/maariful-qu...

Dr Israr Ahmed (HA) was an honest, upright, truthful man who worked for the Deen his entire life sacrificing his Dunya. Maulana Saad (HA) is not dignified enough to wipe the shoes of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA), nevertheless.

Lets take your post on face value.

Are you justifying the actions (alleged sin) of Maulana Saad (HA) based on error/sin of Dr Israr Ahmed?

The answer is Yes/No and not a lengthy post
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 13:43
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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He made a mistake, and everyone makes mistakes. So, the answer is "no," I'm not trying to justify his mistakes.
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Maulana Saad (HA) is not dignified enough to wipe the shoes of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA)

What was the need of this verbal assault?
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 14:03
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Lets compare on factual basis.

  1. Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) was an activist for Islam and Muslims and walked 186 miles barefeet to migrate to the Muslim state of Pakistan, abandoning his home in India for the sake of Allah so he made Hijrah sins forgiven
  2. Then he worked for Islam as a student and as a young man.
  3. He as a young man publicly and openly disagreed with Maulana Maududi (RA) and separated from Jamaat-e-Islami
  4. Then he gave him as profession and dedicated his life to Islam for no salary. His family ate from the income of selling his books and cassettes
  5. He lived in the same apartment all is life
  6. He publicly rebuked and then walked away from President Ziaul-Haq (RA)'s meeting, lets put this in perspective. CIA was backing Pakistan and it was a Nuclear power with a General in charge of the country. Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) walked! and the next 10 years he was not allowed on National Television and he was at the Mercy of CIA, ISI, military but never backed down! He fulfilled the Hadeeth of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) in standing up to the ruler.
  7. He married all his children in the Masjid with no pomp and show
  8. He has no properties, no income and no legacy to his name


Do you want me to now compare Maulana Saad (HA), his actions, properties, weddings of his children? let alone a lifetime of standing for Islam?

Would you mind showing a single statement of Maulana Saad (RA) standing up to Indian Government and on Kashmir and lynching etc? He is backed by Ajit Doval and they are personal friends even someone with pathological relationship will admit it.

Maulana Saad (HA)'s achievement is to KICK TABLEEGHI AKABIR from the Nizamud-deen Markaz where they dedicated their life.

As I say, "Maulana Saad (HA) is not worth wiping the shoes of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA)"

Maulana Saad (HA) doesn't deserve comparison with a great personality of Islam.

I disagree with Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) on a number of his positions but he was a great man who stood for Islam and set the personal example which majority of our Ulama cannot match!
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 14:34
Youtube Video
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 14:47
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Maulana Saad (HA) is an alim of deen. He is also human. He has his faults. Everything you know about him is second hand information. You have not met him or talked to him in person.
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Would you mind showing a single statement of Maulana Saad (RA) standing up to Indian Government and on Kashmir and lynching etc?

Has any tablighi elder ever said anything about such topics from the mimbar? Please be fair in your criticisms.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 14:51
Rajab wrote:
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As an elder Mufti Saeed RA has every right to reprimand Maulana Saad HA.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 15:04
abuzayd2k wrote:
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You compared Maulana Saad (HA) to Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) and there isn't a comparison. Stick to the topic or admit your bias and move on.

Don't care what any Tableeghees or XYZ did but you cannot use "Maulana Saad (HA)" and "Dr Israr Ahmed (RA)" in the same sentence except if you are a dire Indian Nationalist or "Anti-Deobandi" to the core.

I am knowledgeable on Maulana Saad (HA), his family, his finances, his family so trust me that he isn't fit to wipe the shoes of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) unless you have severe bias and a closed mind. Which you are entitled to.

Back on the topic...Secondly, you clearly do not know what Maulana Saad (HA) actually said on the topic and you have also not clearly read Maariful-Qur'aan.

Post clearly what Maulana Saad (HA) actually said and then compare.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 15:42
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Maulana Saad (HA) was mistaken in his choice of words as pointed out by numerous ulama. Hence the assertion in the original post that everyone makes mistakes.

Maariful Quran quotes Ruhul Maani that the question points to a slight rebuke to Musa AS, as it is expected that a leader should travel with his people and not forge ahead of them.

Quote:
you cannot use "Maulana Saad (HA)" and "Dr Israr Ahmed (RA)" in the same sentence except if you are a dire Indian Nationalist or "Anti-Deobandi" to the core.

I've never once used both names in the same sentence. You, sir, on the other hand have used them at least four times already.

I still maintain that you have not met Maulana in person or discussed your issues with him personally.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 17:24
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Same argument against you.

You have never met Dr Israr Ahmed (RA), don't know much about him and tried to clean the "errors" of Maulana Saad (HA) by using a name you plucked out of this air.

Importantly, I have clearly outlined what Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) did in his life and you have Y-E-T to outline a 10% of comparison of Maulana Saad (HA).

Let us know about his finances his lifestyles, marriages of his children, Hijrah, standing up to rulers.

You have met him so give us documented examples of his personal life, waiting since this morning...
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 17:41
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I have never cast any aspersions on the impeccable character of Dr Israr RA.

I do not need to meet Dr Sahab in person to have husn e zann for him.
Quote:
tried to clean the "errors" of Maulana Saad (HA)

There seems to be some disconnect in our communication. Are we even discussing the same thing?

My assertion: we all make mistakes. Maulana made a mistake, but such mistakes have been made by others before him. His elders took him to task for it. I am saddened by non-ulama also having a go at Maulana. Aren't we supposed to leave the heavy lifting to the heavy lifters?
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 18:11
abuzayd2k wrote:
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There is definitely disconnect in our communication which you are creating.

  1. The statement of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) is inline with commentaries of the Qur'aan. The statements of Maulana Saad (HA) go much beyond that, there are factual errors, spiteful and dead wrong...You can either educate yourself on the EXACT STATEMENTS or accuse the Shaykhul-Hadeeth of Darul-uloom Deoband of lying. Make your stance and then prove it with Shariah based evidence.
  2. As a person Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) lived by example and led a life based on Sunnah. You have not given a SINGLE EXAMPLE of Maulana Saad (HA) where his personal life can be held by as an example by anyone where he led by example, once again you can attempt to provide examples of this.


Your whole purpose in life is defend a certain person and you will go to any extreme to do it because your mind is made up. If we trust you then we distrust thousands of Ulama in the World who have issued Fatawa and opinions against Maulana Saad (HA).

What you are claiming is that based on meeting Maulana Saad (HA), we need to make your Taqleed and disregard the Taqleed of major Institutions of the Islamic world.

Your bias is so extreme that you are willing to sink to unknown depths. This reminds of the incident of Maulana Abdul Hasan Ali Nadwi (RA) and Tasawuf. He pondered upon the matter and found no evidence of Tasawuff from his research but then he thought that Shah Waliullah (RA) was better then him (and other Ulama) so he must have missed something which led to him reaching out to other Ulama. Maulana Abdul Hasan Ali Nadwi (RA) regarded this as a turning point in his life where he concluded that if so many Ulama have an opinion then his knowledge or understanding must be lacking!

In your case, you are so confident of yourself that you are willing to disregard the Ulama with regards to Maulana Saad (HA). In other words, Darul-uloom Deoband do not believe that his apology is sufficient or goes far enough but you are willing to override Darul-uloom Deoband and disagree based on YouTube clips. But you also insist on associating yourself with Darul-uloom Deoband whose opinion in this matter is not good enough for you.

As a person Maulana Saad (HA) is not fit enough to wipe the shoes of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA).

You have a problem with this statement, fair enough...But when you are asked about examples of Maulana Saad (HA) living his life as an example, you are silent and know nothing about his finances, lifestyle, kids, housing etc.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 18:27
It was not as if maulana saad had only made this erroneous statement. He had made many before and after this statement. Tablighi Jamat is a byproduct of darul uloom deoband therefore they have a right to do its islah.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 19:26
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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1. Maulana Saad HA made numerous other mistakes.
2. Maulana Saad's HA personal life may also have shortcomings.

The OP was made in the people's say section, so it is only a lowly ignoramus voicing an ignorant opinion, and not a demand for anyone to agree.

This is obviously a very controversial issue so I will admit defeat here and say I have no answers to any of your questions and humbly request that you allow me to bow out ignobly، with my tail between my legs.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2020 19:27
Rajab wrote:
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I agree.
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