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#76 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2020 17:18
bint e aisha wrote:
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Admittedly, I only read the article after your post above. I apologise for not exercising due diligence.

I agree with Colonel Sahab's assessment of the article. Mufti Sahab says in the article that the "lesser" fatwa is also permissible. That should be enough for any Muslim to act on it.

I also agree with Colonel Sahab that we should all be vigilant of inadvertently projecting auras of "dysentery of religiosity."
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#77 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2020 17:47
bint e aisha wrote:
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Video on Rennet coming up to tell people about the facts of Calf Rennet so they can make educated decisions on the issue instead of following Wikipedia.

Research Material:

Start:

This issue is largely irrelevant in 2020 because most Cheese is made using microbial Rennet.

Traditional Rennet Method:

www.youtube.com/watch?edufilter=NULL&v=vg...

The South African Ulama have misunderstood the issue because even the traditional method uses "pieces of animal" vs the Modern method uses enzymes so the traditional method is more of a problem then the modern method and not the other way around.

18AUG2020: WhatsApp sent to Mufti Faisal that the fatwa is backwards i.e. Modern method uses enzymes from contents while traditional methods uses actual pieces of flesh of the animal.

Evidence from Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam):

Loading Hadeeth

Evidence from Sahabah (RA):

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ عَنْ مُغِيرَةَ عَنْ أَبِي وَائِلٍ وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ قَالَا: " لَمَّا قَدِمَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ أَصَابُوا مِنْ أَطْعِمَةِ الْمَجُوسِ مِنْ جُبْنِهِمْ وَخُبْزِهِمْ ، فَأَكَلُوا ، وَلَمْ يَسْأَلُوا عَنْ ذَلِكَ ، وَوُصِفَ الْجُبْنُ لِعُمَرَ ، فَقَالَ: "اذْكُرُوا اسْمَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ وَكُلُوهُ " رواه ابن أبي شيبة (5/130)


Jareer told us, from Mugheerah, from Abu Waa’il and Ibraaheem, who said: When the Muslims came, they got some food from the Magians, their cheese and bread, and they ate and did not ask about that. The cheese was described to ‘Umar, and he said: Mention the name of Allah over it and eat it. Narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah (5/130).

وحَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ عَنِ الْأَعْمَشِ عَنْ شَقِيقٍ عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ شُرَحْبِيلَ قَالَ: " ذَكَرْنَا الْجُبْنَ عِنْد َعُمَرَ، فَقُلْنَا لَهُ إِنَّهُ يُصْنَعُ فِيهِ أَنَافِيحُ الْمَيْتَةِ، فَقَالَ: "سَمُّوا عَلَيْهِ وَكُلُوهُ" ، رواه ابن أبي شيبة (5/130)


Abu Bakr told us: Abu Mu‘aawiyah told us, from al-A‘mash, from Shaqeeq, from ‘Amr ibn Shurahbeel, who said: We mentioned cheese in the presence of ‘Umar, and we told him that it was made with rennet of animals that died of natural causes, and he said: Mention the name of Allah over it and eat it. Narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah (5/130).

؟ وحَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ عَنْ سُفْيَانَ عَنْ جَحْشٍ عَنْ مُعَاوِيَةَ بْنِ قُرَّةَ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ : " أَنَّهُ سُئِلَ عَنِ الْجُبْنِ، فَقَالَ: "لَا بَأْسَ بِهِ، ضَعِ السِّكِّينَ وَاذْكُرِ اسْمَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ وَكُلْ" رواه ابن أبي شيبة (5/130)


Abu Bakr told us: Wakee‘ told us, from Sufyaan, from Jahsh, from Mu‘aawiyah ibn Qurrah, from al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali that he was asked about cheese and said: There is nothing wrong with it, mention the name of Allah over it as you are cutting it, and eat. Narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah (5/130).

Imam Abu Haneefa (RA):

Summary of discussion with Darul-Ifta

The issue in the Madhab is termed as "Khilaf-e-Qiyas" i.e. when evidence is authenticated then Qiyas (logic) is abandoned in the Madhab.

Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) and American & British Ulama are abandoning Qiyas (logic) in favour of evidence.

Roll it together in a video...
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#78 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2020 18:05
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abuzayd2k wrote:
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I hope the butter or cheese you're using on him contains rennet extracted from halal sources!
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#79 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2020 18:47
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Message from Maulana X

Check Inaamul-Bari of Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) in Kitaabut-Taharah and include that in your research as it is the most comprehensive and latest discussion by him on the topic of Rennet.

Vol 2, Page 407

ia902509.us.archive.org/26/items/InaamUlBari-Volume1-7-By...

P.S: But when I checked the discussion is about Gelatine and not Cheese.
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#80 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2020 18:54
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Message from Mufti X (USA):

askimam.org/public/question_detail/15573

The ruling in Hanafi Fiqh is giving upon the view of Imam Abu Hanifa, therefore if the rennet is extracted from lawful animals it is lawful to consume, regardless if it is slaughtered in accordance to Shariah or not.

- عن ابن عباس قال أتى النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم بجبنة فى غزاة فقال أين صنعت هذه فقالوا بفارس ونحن نرى أنه يجعل فيها ميتة فقال اطعنوا فيها بالسكين واذكروا اسم الله وكلوا (مسند احمد)

- عن ابن عمر قال أتى النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم بجبنة فى تبوك فدعا بسكين فسمى وقطع (سنن ابى داود)

- قوله : كالشعر الخ والمنقار والمخلب وبيضة ضعيفة القشرة ولبن وإنفخة وهي ما يكون في معدة الجدي ونحوه الرضيع من أجزاء اللبن قبل أن يأكل قال في الفتح لا خلاف بن أصحابنا في ذلك وإنما الخلاف من حيث تنجسهما فقالا : نعم لمجاورتهما الغشاء النجس فإن كانت الأنفحة جامدة تطهر بالغسل وإلا تعذر تطهيرها كاللبن وقال أبو حنيفة ليستا بمتنجستين لأن الموت لا يحلهما (حاشية الطحطاوى على مراقى الفلاح ص 169 دار الكتب العلمية)

- ( وشعر الميتة ) غير الخنزير على المذهب ( وعظمها وعصبها ) على المشهور ( وحافرها وقرنها ) الخالية عن الدسومة وكذا كل ما لا تحله الحياة حتى الإنفحة واللبن على الراجح...قال ابن عابدين: ( قوله حتى الإنفحة ) بكسر الهمزة وقد تشدد الحاء وقد تكسر الفاء . والمنفحة والبنفحة : شيء واحد يستخرج من بطن الجدي الراضع أصفر فيعصر في صوفة فيغلظ كالجبن ، فإذا أكل الجدي فهو كرش ، وتفسير الجوهري الإنفحة بالكرش سهو قاموس بالحرف فافهم . ( قوله على الراجح ) أي الذي هو قول الإمام ، ولم أر من صرح بترجيحه ، ولعله أخذه من تقديم صاحب الملتقى له وتأخيره قولهما كما هو عادته فيما يرجحه (الدر المختار مع رد المحتار 1:206)

- وإنفحة الميتة ولبنها في ضرعها وقشر البيضة الخارجة والسخلة الساقطة من أمها وهي مبتلة طاهرة عند أبي حنيفة رحمه الله . كذا في محيط السرخسي (الفتاوى الهندية)


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#81 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2020 20:03
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Volume?
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#82 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2020 21:25
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#83 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2020 22:26
yamanemati wrote:
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darulqasim.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Rennet-Final.pdf

Quote:
Wisconsin Center for Dairy Research (WCDR)concluded that less than 5% of cheese consumed in America is animal derived. In other words, approximately 95% of all cheese in the United States is made with non-animal derived rennet

www.vrg.org/journal/vj2008issue3/2008_issue3_update_renet...


Quote:
As for the 5% animal based rennet, we received direct clarification from two of the leading manufacturers and marketers of calf-rennet in the U.S. and worldwide: Chr. Hansen and Royal DSM. Both stated emphatically that animal tissues and enzymes are separated and filtered through thousands of liters of water at the time of production.Thus,tissues from the animal’s stomach are not present in the [final] rennet product.




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#84 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2020 03:45
bint e aisha wrote:
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I am assuming that your comment is intended to be light hearted, however, I am offended by your comment. Please maintain decorum and formality (takalluf). It is not in our culture to address a ghayr mehram male in such a tone.
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#85 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2020 05:26
abuzayd2k wrote:
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My posts are not to be taken light heartedly, my brother. I asked you a very straightforward question in my previous post but since you didn't deny that, I assumed the answer was in affirmative.

---

"I agree with Colonel Sahab", "I agree with Colonel Sahab", "I agree with Colonel Sahab". And "Mufti Sahab's" words hold no value? You said his words were problematic even without reading the entire article?! Why? Just because you want to flatter Colonel Sahab?
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#86 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2020 05:41
bint e aisha wrote:
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This post is even more insulting than the previous post. I take back everything I've said in this thread. I'm sorry I spoke out about something I have no knowledge of. You win. I lose.

Edit (a little later, after a few minutes of reflection): This was an exercise in the limitations of online communication. I'm sure no one intended to insult anyone, but there's no telling what effect our words are having on our brothers and sisters.
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#87 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2020 05:52
abuzayd2k wrote:
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There is no winning or losing in this, my brother. I was not discussing anything with you. You came in and said Mufti Sahab's words were problematic and I knew you hadn't read anything on his website.

If you wish you can clarify your position that your comments were genuine etc. but there is no need to say sorry like that.

---

And if you think my posts were insulting, I'm sorry. I never wanted to insult you, I just didn't want to assume anything on my own hence I asked you directly. Allah is my witness, it was never my intention to insult you.
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#88 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2020 05:57
bint e aisha wrote:
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Thank you for your clarification.
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#89 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2020 06:02
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Hope you're not upset with me. If you are, then I apologise once again.
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#90 [Permalink] Posted on 19th August 2020 06:51
bint e aisha wrote:
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All's well. I'm sorry I got so worked up. I'm a little ashamed of myself for throwing a tantrum like that, to be honest.
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