Book recommendations on the Ottoman Empire

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 29th July 2020 20:16

Assalamu alaykum,

I wish to read the history of the turkish empire, its rise and downfall, from an Islamic scholarly perspective. Can anyone please give me some recommendations for books to read (in english).

Any other books on Islamic history would also be welcome.

Jazak Allahu Khairan

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 10:07

Even I would like to know.

I have got my Islamic history education from S.Ameer Ali and Ali Mian. For their own respective reasons both of them ignored the Ottomans.

What little I know of the Ottoman Empire is from the book in Urdu by Sarwat Saulat called Millat-e-Islamia Ki Mukhtsar Tareekh.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 11:04

Maripat wrote:

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I have this one but it's in Urdu and OP has requested a book in English.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 13:13

Pakora wrote:

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وعلیکم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

You cannot find Ottoman history written in Islamic perspective brother. Because nearly 90% of Ottoman history is written by modernist. Why i have said this is because, Ottoman Turkish is a dead language. Its only recently there is a movement to teach Ottoman Turkish to common people. Previously and even now Ottoman Turkish is taught in certain departments in university. These departments may teach the language but do not teach the mindest of Ottomans. This is why certain events in the history are explained by their own conclusion. They read records from Ottoman sources and in some cases non Turkish sources (reports) and come up with explanation. This is problematic because, it may not reflect the actual reason why certain decision or certain event happened in Ottoman history. Recently in Turkey with Neo-Ottomanism concept 'pro-Ottoman' historians emerged. These historians sound more traditional more 'Islamically' minded but their foundation goes to modernist faculties. They are still influenced by so called 'authorities' in Ottoman history even if outwardly they display a different image.

One common 'authority' cited for Ottoman history is Halil Inalcık. His work has been translated to several languages. His methodology as well as his student's methodology is based on analyzing both sources (Ottoman and non Ottoman sources.) They believe their explanation will be more objective. However Halil Inalcık himself one attended to a TV program said he had came to a conclusion the Shaikh of Fatih Sultan Muhammad (rahimahullah) was a shaman (naudubillah min dhalik). Hadhrat Akshemseddin rahimahullah was involved with medicine as well. Now respected brothers and sisters, this is view of Ottoman history 'authority'. They are also certain flaws in his work as well especially when he explains the rise and the fall of Ottoman history.

Another important problematic approach in Ottoman history is certain decision (famous one is brother killing) is misunderstood and explained totally far away from its actual objective.Law to kill your brother was enacted by Fatih Sultan Muhammad rahimahullah. He was influenced by this decision due to seeing how certain loyal members in the Ottoman family were allying with Kuffar just to topple down their brother and come to the throne. Fatih Sultan Muhammad rahimahullah had enacted this law to protect Ottoman Empire's objective that was to raise the words of Allah. It wasnt done for power gains as it is explained unfortunately. This law is simply saying "if your brother (s) is (are) being threat to spreading the word of Allah by allying with Kuffar then you can kill him." This law was used on few occasions not frequently unlike what is portrayed. Even when this happened, the Sultan would weep. If this was done for power gains why would Sultan weep?

I would not recommend anyone to read Ottoman history. Because when such books are brought or shared without knowing the author without knowing his background, just due to fancy cover, people start to read them and take them as absolute truth! Very wrong. If you read such works, you would misjudge Ottomans. In modern history, there is no such thing as 'objective' history although many historians like to present this image. The only 'objective' part of history is where all historians agree is on certain events that took place. The rest is only explanation. You cannot access to older works because they are beyond your reach (they are in libraries) or you dont know the language (or even the words in the language are old thus you dont understand it), you are depended to 'historians' to open them up to you. What if the historian is modern minded what if he has studied under modernist professors?

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 13:59

Türk Kızı wrote:

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W-Salam,

Urdu Script vs Osmanlica (Ottoman Turkish)

If you know how to read Urdu, you automatically know how to read most of Osmanlica, except for a few differences:

ت‎, ت‎, ت‎ and ث‎ are pronounced Baa, Paa, Taa and Thaa (open mouth wide) while Turkish is pronounced lightly as Be, Pe, Te and The respectively
Generally, Turks pronounce everything with a "e" sound rather then open "A" in Urdu or Arabic e.g. ذ‎ in Urdu or Arabic is pronounced as "Zel" while it is "Zaal" in Urdu and "Dhaal" in Arabic
ق‎ is QAAF in Urdu and Arabic but not as strong in Turkish and just KAAF
ك‎ is KAAF in Urdu and Arabic but as usual "Kef" in Turkish
گ‎ is GAAF in Urdu but as usual "Gef" in Turkish
ڭ‎ this is a Turkish invention called nef, ñef, sağır kef (1), kāf-ı nūnī and pronounced with a "n" sound

[/img]

I have two questions for you, please:

How do you pronounce this letter in Ottoman Turkish?
Can you please give me a simple word starting with this letter and write it in Ottoman Turkish and also in English

ڭ

Then to join

Zabar (Urdu) = ustun
Zaer (Urdu) = esre
Paish (Urdu) = ötre

All written the same way and in the same place

So if you know Urdu, you can read this:

And this "Fatwa"

Read the Fatwa in Urdu
Compare it to the actual YouTube pronouncement: www.youtube.com/watch?edufilter=NULL&v=ZQxP4xxtYNE

90% Urdu readers will have no problems with reading, they will pronounce it wrong and not know meanings and how to join but reading should be easy...

Once you get hang of Turkish pronunciation then speaking in Turkey comes pretty quickly to Urdu speakers e.g:

Marhaba (Urdu) vs Merhaba (Turkish)
Albatta (Urdu) vs Elbatta (Turkish)

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 14:09

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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This is very true. Our languages are sister languages but brother...

Reading is not important here, understanding is what matters and for that if you dont know Turkish equilivance for Urdu words let me give one example, (showk (urdu) şevk(turkish) you wont understand anything. Urdu speakers would be able to read Ottoman Turkish but they wont understand it because Arabic and Farsi words are Turkified. Knowing how to read is the first step but its not everything.

Humble correction if you dont mind respected brother: There is no such thing called Osmanlıca, it is either called old Turkish or Ottoman Turkish. I know Turks also say Osmanlıca but this is wrong. Osmanlıca isnt seperate language it is Turkish itself.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 14:15

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Im really sorry about i just saw your questions, please forgive me. I read your questions: I dont need know Urdu to answer this question okay Inshaallah i will answer your questions. I was bit confused whether i needed to know Urdu.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 14:53

Khair, Jzk for all the replies. I've seen a few books on amazon written by a few modernists, i will prob just go for them inshaAllah.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 15:05

Answer to Brother Muadh's Question

"I have two questions for you, please:

1)How do you pronounce this letter in Ottoman Turkish?
2)Can you please give me a simple word starting with this letter and write it in Ottoman Turkish and also in English

ڭ

Then to join

Zabar (Urdu) = ustun
Zaer (Urdu) = esre
Paish (Urdu) = ötre"

Answer

1) This letter is Nef (Naf) which also know as Sağır Kef (or Kafı-Nuni). The pronouncation of this letter little diffferent. It is not quite n sound but the n sound has come out from your nose. So some write that letter nef's sound is between n-g sound. Certain regions in Anatolia pronounce n just like how nef is pronounced. In some writings Nef is written like a Kaaf with 3 dots. However throughout time the dots were removed and it was shown as kaaf. (If you know the word you would understand that this particular word contains nef). Only for special cases not to confuse particular word 3 dots would be added to nef. Here are examples:

English Translation:
1) Anlamak (to understand)
2) İnlemek (groan)
3) Ense (nape)
4) Deniz (sea)
5) Yalnış (wrong)
6) Anlatmak (to explain)
7) Bildiniz (you have guessed)
8) Gördün (you saw)
9) Başımın Tacı (Crown of my Head) (you use this term to someone who you have reverance for)

There are cases where nef doesnt have three dots although they are nef also:

چایك باجيك قيزك باباك

Baban(your dad) Kızın (your daughter) Bacın(your sister) Çayın (your tea)

Nef is used for 4 cases for

1) second person (singular): possessive suffix and verbs
2) second person (plural): possessive sufix and verbs
3) propositional phrase
4) for specific turkish words.

Hope this post was helpful.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 15:18

Firas al Khateeb has done some lectures on Ottoman history on YouTube. Anyone knows about him? His famous book "Lost Islamic history" was also recommended by our PM Imran Khan to read during lockdown days.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 15:26

bint e aisha wrote:

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Background:

"Firas Alkhateeb is a PhD student in Islamic thought interested in post-classical Ḥanafī legal theory in the Ottoman Empire and its intersections with theology and political theory. He is particularly interested in the manner in which 14th century Ottoman jurists understood themselves and their work in relation to the existing pre-Ottoman and pre-Mongol Ḥanafī tradition.

He holds a B.A. in History from the University of Illinois at Chicago and an M.A. in Middle Eastern Studies from the University of Chicago, where he wrote a master’s thesis on Ottoman şeyhülislam Ebū's-Suʿūd’s legal theory titled “Post-Classical Ḥanafī Legal Theory: The Cash Waqf in Relation to the Ottoman State.” He has also studied the Islamic sciences with scholars of the Islamic tradition in Chicago and Istanbul.

Firas has a background in secondary education, having worked as a high school history teacher for five years before coming to the University of Chicago. During that time, he wrote an introductory text on Islamic history for high school students titled "Lost Islamic History: Reclaiming Muslim Civilization from the Past."

Halil İnalcık was instructor in University of Chicago until he settled to Turkey in the 1990s. It is likely AlKhateeb could have been influenced by him. Ottoman History in the West and even in Turkey cite Halil Inalcık's work. I would be still suspicious of him and wouldnt recommend it to anyone. Im not saying AlKhateeb isnt authetic or anything but, i wouldnt advice someone so easily.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 17:48

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Little note: As i wait for my earlier post to be approved, I checked your pictures in more detail. Ottoman Turkish has several scripts. So if you know how to read Ottoman Turkish doesnt mean you can read every script now unlike in Urdu. Ottoman Turkish has more than 10 different scripts. As far as i have seen, only two scripts (Rika and Matbu) are taught to common people. Urdu script's equilivable in Ottoman Turkish Allahu Alam looks like Rik'a script. Rika and Rik'a are not the same.

Urdu also looks like Rika script too but im not really expert on whether someone who know Rika script have no problem reading urdu text.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 17:55

Türk Kızı wrote:

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Masha'Allah, good information.

Can you share images of all the scripts of just the alphabets or the most common which was used by common people?

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 18:12

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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When i look at the picture i uploaded Urdu script looks more like Talik script. Allahu Alam.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2020 19:06

Matbu - Rika script (along with Divani and Talik) (closeup)

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