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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 20:07

"In Need of Teaching wrote:

You're right of course.
My response was simply to the question and I realize it doesn't really represent the topic of this thread.

My fault for not making myself clear. I don't want to go into a lengthy explanation. Not feeling too great right now. Bit run down and tired.

From a western perspective I meant those who compromise their deen in front of the non Muslims so that they will be accepted in today's society. Compromising their deen and beliefs in regards to sexual promiscuity, feminism, gender bendering, lgbt, etc.

Authorizer edit: Title changed from split topic

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 20:12

xs11ax wrote:

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From a western perspective I meant those who compromise their deen in front of the non Muslims so that they will be accepted in today's society. Compromising their deen and beliefs in regards to sexual promiscuity, feminism, gender bendering, lgbt, etc.

Absolutely right too.
As Muslim's we need to be accepted to effect change, but shouldn't try to conform to things that require those compromises.
As abu mohammed said, we need to set an example, and in doing that, we can gain acceptance.

I will say a dua for you and I hope you feel well again soon.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 20:20

In Need of Teaching wrote:

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One thing I would add to that.

Regarding those things you mentioned. I think part of gaining acceptance would be to not condemn those people. We are not here to judge them.
That doesn't mean that I agree with those things, but I can be tolerant of them.
It doesn't mean that I think those people should ever be accepted as Muslim's, just accepted as misguided people.
They truly have to answer to only one being for their actions, and it isn't a person.
IF for some reason, they ever decided they wanted to be a Muslim, then it becomes an issue and will require education and/or non-acceptance.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 20:41

In Need of Teaching wrote:

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The best way to gain acceptance from non Muslims would be to live as good Muslims, but so far we have missed the boat.

Islam teaches us to look out for our neighbours, but we only care for ourselves.

Islam teaches us to help the poor and destitute, but we don't welcome them into our mosques.

Islam teaches us to be honest in our dealings, but instead we are greedy and dishonest.

The list goes on. If we showed non Muslims the reality of Islam then we would not have a problem of acceptance, even if we differred with them on some things.

My extended family are Muslims and come from an Indian village surrounded by many other villages. The villages are mostly muslim with a few non Muslims. Usually the non Muslims families are employed as servants and maids in the muslim households. Many of these non muslim families serve the same muslim family from generation to generation. Sometimes the kids of the servants grow up in the muslim households from birth eventually going onto serving the family. These non Muslims are Hindus from the dalit caste or untouchable class. They are already hated by their own people. If they were shown the reality of Islam then they would have gravitated towards Islam. But instead the Muslims that they serve are just as bad or even worse than their own people who look down on them.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 20:44

xs11ax wrote:

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I truly wish I was able to "Like" this post.

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 21:38

In Need of Teaching wrote:

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I agree

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2020 22:31

xs11ax wrote:

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These are the teachings that brought me to Islam.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 18th March 2020 22:11

I don't know the context of this thread, so forgive me if what i say is out of context, but when we fail to condemn (with wisdom) those committing wrong actions, then we're effectively complicit and normalise this behaviour within our society. Previously, social policing, played a vital role in keeping immorality in check, but liberalism has put a check to that. Now if you condemn anyone for doing illicit things, people are quick to condemn you for being judgemental. We indeed are not judges of the interior i.e. Imaan, but we are judges of the exterior i.e. actions and as Muslims we should never accept what the Ultimate Judge has condemned or made unlawful.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 18th March 2020 23:10

Intrepid wrote:

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Social policing does more harm than good. No one is saying we have to agree with something that is against our personal ethics and morals.

Social policing drives social issues underground it doesnâ€™t stop people from doing what is deemed as forbidden.

Us humans were not created like the angels whose sole purpose was goodness and obedience neither were we created as the devil to spread evil. We were blessed with free will. This is the real test of being human. Self control, repentance, sinning itâ€™s all part and parcel of life.

Education in deen is important and vital for oneself so we know what is right and wrong. We all err from time to time and we repent. As long as we can distinguish between right and wrong that will be our guidance and saviour.

Sorry if Iâ€™m off topic. As I still donâ€™t understand the direction of this thread lol

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 18th March 2020 23:53

Intrepid wrote:

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Now if you condemn anyone

I think this goes straight to the point of the context of what I said at least.

It is not us who are responsible for condemnation.
This is mainly a statement regarding the treatment of non-Muslims.

In a sense, it does also apply to the treatment of fellow Muslims though, we should educate a fellow Muslim who does such things, give them a chance to repent and change their ways. They should fear Allah سبحانه وتعالى not their fellow Muslims.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 19th March 2020 00:01

Moonlight wrote:

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This thread was split from a post in Debates and Refutations.
It could probably use a title change.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 19th March 2020 00:06

In Need of Teaching wrote:

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Thanks for clarifying. I think the person who opens the thread can change the title not sure. Hope itâ€™s a simple and self explanatory title

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 19th March 2020 20:45

This thread is mainly about the need for all people to be more accepting of others.

Also, I believe, it is a very important reminder about how this applies to, and is related to, Islam gaining better acceptance worldwide.

As Muslims we need to be accepted to effect change.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 19th March 2020 23:39

With regards to people that are/do these things: sexual promiscuity, feminism, gender bendering, lgbt, etc.

Especially in regards to non-Muslims.
Does the Muslim community ever benefit from condemning or ridiculing these people?
Does it in any way benefit our Deen to treat them poorly?
Is there anything wrong with *tolerating/recognizing them as fellow humans, however misguided they may be?

Truly, the only thing we gain by behaving in that fashion is disrespect.
Being judgmental of others is not a positive thing.
I would also argue that it is neither qurannic or sunnah behavior to treat others with disrespect.
I'm not saying we should befriend these people, nor invite that behavior into our homes or mosques.
There is simply no benefit in mistreating people that are different and I believe it harms our deen far more than any perceived benefit you may believe it has.

*Edited for Clarification.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 20th March 2020 08:45

In Need of Teaching wrote:

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On the authority of Abu Sa`eed al-Khudree (may Allah be pleased with him) who said:

I heard the Messenger of Allah (ï·º) say, â€œWhosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart â€” and that is the weakest of faith.â€ [Muslim]

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Actions are judged by intentions, so each man will have what he intended.
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Acceptance of Others

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