Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 
Top Members

New to Islam and have questions.

Jump to page:

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
To appreciate this topic, click 'Appreciate Topic' on the right.
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Online
UK
10,282
Brother
8,626
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#46 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 16:12

In Need of Teaching wrote:
View original post

I have never understood Trinity with regards to the Catholic Church. If god is a singular entity then he died on the cross and was resurrected 3 days later so who was running the world while god was dead?

If trinity is a non-singular entity and someone died on the cross and god was still around then Catholics don't really believe in 1 god, do they?

I have asked so many Catholics and have never gotten a satisfactory answer, I have heard all the typical examples about water, ice and steam in the same pot which is generally taught to Catholic preachers.

How do you see this?

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
21,796
Brother
9,536
abu mohammed's avatar
#47 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 16:23
report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0Like x 1
back to top
Rank Image
In Need of Teaching's avatar
Offline
USA
992
Brother
333
In Need of Teaching's avatar
#48 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 16:43
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

My understanding of the trinity is this.
God is the father of all things.
Jesus was the son of God and died on the cross. (Not a God per say, but the son of one)
The Holy Spirit is the third part. I'm really not clear on what that one is. Some think it's the soul, some God's divine wisdom, I was never really clear what the holy spirit was supposed to represent.

(These are what I was taught when I was a Catholic.)
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
21,796
Brother
9,536
abu mohammed's avatar
#49 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 16:45
In Need of Teaching wrote:
View original post

Wasn't the spirit meant to be Gabriel?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
In Need of Teaching's avatar
Offline
USA
992
Brother
333
In Need of Teaching's avatar
#50 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 16:56
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post

Not according to what I was taught. It seemed (to me) there wasn't a clear definition in Catholicism. I can not say what other denominations believe in.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
In Need of Teaching's avatar
Offline
USA
992
Brother
333
In Need of Teaching's avatar
#51 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 18:47
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post
Sorry, I forgot to address this portion of your post.
Quote:
I have heard all the typical examples about water, ice and steam in the same pot which is generally taught to Catholic preachers.

Catholics (as far as I'm aware) are the only Christian religion to use Priests. *Now some lay people who quote scripture during a mass are "Deacons", also a term that can be used for priests that have not yet been ordained (taken their holy orders).*
The other denominations typically refer to them as Ministers or Preachers.

If a Christian is referring to them as "all the same", then (in my opinion) he would be advocating monotheism.
So, I'm really not sure what to make from such babble by Christians.

*Clarification
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
In Need of Teaching's avatar
Offline
USA
992
Brother
333
In Need of Teaching's avatar
#52 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 18:53
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post
Quote:
Jay Smith

I'm sorry I haven't listened to the audio provided yet.
Just seeing who Jay Smith is enough for me to not care about anything he has to say.

From Wikipedia:
Jay Smith (Christian apologist)
Unfortunately I'm not allowed to put a direct link here.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Like x 1
back to top
Rank Image
In Need of Teaching's avatar
Offline
USA
992
Brother
333
In Need of Teaching's avatar
#53 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 20:06
In the Quran, I keep reading that we're to accept the writings of the Bible and the Torah.

Are there really any credible versions of these left? The more I read in the Quran, the more it seems that these writings have been compromised and can't be seen as credible.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
1,428
Sister
1,568
bint e aisha's avatar
#54 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 20:11
In Need of Teaching wrote:
View original post

We are only required to believe that these books were revealed by Allah. We are not even supposed to read these books now since we have Qur'an for guidance.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Online
UK
10,282
Brother
8,626
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#55 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 20:14

In Need of Teaching wrote:
View original post

As a Muslim, you affirm that bible is the word of God but there is no way to individually check and separate the tampered from the authentic.

In Need of Teaching wrote:
View original post

Not sure if this is the official trinity version but logically it is still problematic.

abu mohammed wrote:
View original post

Cannot really be sure one way or another
 
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
In Need of Teaching's avatar
Offline
USA
992
Brother
333
In Need of Teaching's avatar
#56 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 20:19
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

Oh believe me, I know it's problematic and not in keeping with the Quran. I was just explaining it to the best of my ability as a former Catholic.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Online
UK
10,282
Brother
8,626
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#57 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd January 2020 20:36

bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

For general laymen Muslims, there is no reason to read the books of people of the Book or any other text. For you living in a 97% Muslim country, there is also no reason.

However, it is permitted and even be desired by people of knowledge to read it as it is needed.

For us, it is a regular (almost daily) occurrence to be able to speak to Non-Muslims so we need to have some general familiarity with religions (around us) and their text. This is the commentary underneath the Hadith on this topic in Saheeh Bukhari:

قال الحافظ ابن حجر رحمه الله تعالى : " بخلاف الراسخ ؛ فيجوز له النظر في التوراة والإنجيل ، ولا سيما عند الاحتياج إلى الرد على المخالف ، ويدل على ذلك نقل الأئمة قديما وحديثا من التوراة ، وإلزامهم اليهود بالتصديق بمحمد صلى الله عليه وسلم بما يستخرجونه من كتابهم ، ولولا اعتقادهم جواز النظر فيه ، لما فعلوه وتواردوا عليه " انتهى من " فتح الباري " ( 13 /525 – 526) .


Quote:
Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (RA) said: … unlike the one who is well versed in knowledge. For him it is permissible to read in the Torah and Gospel, especially when he needs to refute an opponent. This is indicated by the fact that the imams (leading scholars), both in the past and more recently, quoted from the Torah to prove to the Jews that they should believe in Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) on the basis of what they found in their book. If they did not believe that it was permissible to read it, they would not have done that and persisted in doing so, generation after generation.

T-H-E-N it is the case of Non-Muslims who accept Islam and Ibn Taymiyyah (RA) said:

قال ابن تيمية رحمه الله تعالى : " وإذا حصل من مسلمة أهل الكتاب ، الّذين علموا ما عندهم بلغتهم ، وترجموا لنا بالعربيّة : انتفع بذلك في مناظرتهم ومخاطبتهم ، كما كان عبد اللّه بن سلام ، وسلمان الفارسيّ ، وكعب الأحبار ، وغيرهم ، يحدّثون بما عندهم من العلم ، وحينئذ يستشهد بما عندهم على موافقة ما جاء به الرّسول ، ويكون حجّة عليهم من وجه ، وعلى غيرهم من وجه آخر ، كما بيّنّاه في موضعه " انتهى من " مجموع الفتاوى " (4/109 – 110)

Quote:
Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:  If it so happens that there are some of the people of the Book who convert to Islam, and they have knowledge of what they have in their language and can translate it to us in Arabic, that may be useful when debating with the Jews and Christians or talking to them, as ‘Abdullah ibn Salaam, Salmaan al-Faarisi, Ka‘b al-Ahbaar and others did; they transmitted what they had of knowledge. In that case we may quote what they have that is in harmony with what the Messenger brought, and that will be proof against them in some ways and against others in other ways, as we have explained elsewhere.

I recently learned that T-H-I-S hadeeth is from the beginning era of Islam:

عن جابر بن عبد الله رضي الله عنهما : " أَنَّ عُمَرَ بْنَ الْخَطَّابِ أَتَى النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ بِكِتَابٍ أَصَابَهُ مِنْ بَعْضِ أَهْلِ الْكُتُبِ ، فَقَرَأَهُ على النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَغَضِبَ وَقَالَ : ( أَمُتَهَوِّكُونَ فِيهَا يَا ابْنَ الْخَطَّابِ ، وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ ، لَقَدْ جِئْتُكُمْ بِهَا بَيْضَاءَ نَقِيَّةً ، لَا تَسْأَلُوهُمْ عَنْ شَيْءٍ فَيُخْبِرُوكُمْ بِحَقٍّ فَتُكَذِّبُوا بِهِ ، أَوْ بِبَاطِلٍ فَتُصَدِّقُوا بِهِ ، وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ ، لَوْ أَنَّ مُوسَى كَانَ حَيًّا ، مَا وَسِعَهُ إِلَّا أَنْ يَتْبَعَنِي‏ ) "

Quote:
It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abdullah (RA) that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (RA) came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with some written material he had got from one of the people of the Book. He read it to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and he got angry and said: “Are you confused (about your religion), O son of al-Khattaab? By the One in Whose hand is my soul, I have brought it (the message of Islam) to you clear and pure. Do not ask them about anything, lest they tell you something true and you disbelieve it, or they tell you something false and you believe it. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if Moosa were alive, he would have no option but to follow me.” [Ahmed]

It might have been Mufti Tariq Masood who recently touched on this issue but I cannot recall so I will not quote it...

report post quote code quick quote reply
+3 -0Like x 1Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
In Need of Teaching's avatar
Offline
USA
992
Brother
333
In Need of Teaching's avatar
#58 [Permalink] Posted on 24th January 2020 04:00
sipraomer wrote:
View original post
Quote:
Perhaps an educated person like you can do a favour by opening a thread on this topic.

Perhaps I will, inshallah, after I have spent more time on my studies and have the time to read at least some of the books you mentioned.

Addition: I have downloaded the book "As a Man Thinketh". This book is available free on Amazon (for Kindle users) if anyone is interested.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?C=3UE7YV4YZ5PH3&K=23SWHCO2N3373&M=urn:rtn:msg:2020012404092287efbb41d80b4af4a5db205281b0p0na&R=3IZBVKNW8TM8T&T=C&U=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2FB01M5KL63Q%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_117923520_TE_M1DP&H=1ATASRUENYDRK9JPAQXLZRG4RKWA&ref_=pe_385040_117923520_TE_M1DP
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Like x 1
back to top
Yasin's avatar
London, UK
5,847
Brother
247
Yasin's avatar
#59 [Permalink] Posted on 24th January 2020 08:42
Trinity is very very confusing even to this who try to explain it. Every possibility is full of contradictions.

Years ago i was trying to gather information for someone and what i found was that many were explaining it without explaining anything. Literally putting words together to say absolutely nothing. I gave up eventually.

What's the best you've found that makes some sense if any?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
21,796
Brother
9,536
abu mohammed's avatar
#60 [Permalink] Posted on 24th January 2020 08:47
Yasin wrote:
View original post

How to define a trinity discussion in one a word description.

WAFFLING
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 2
back to top

Jump to page: