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#106 [Permalink] Posted on 19th March 2020 21:17
I really look forward to the US working with the Taliban to stop ISIS. Islam is clearly not the problem, terrorism is.
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#107 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 15:15
Debt on Me


There is a debt on me in this thread.

I had told brother In Need of Teaching that I shall once again apologize to him about intemperately harsh words that I used about him.

I had already done that publicly but he had sent me a very amicable private message and I had promised him that I'll soon(!) apologize once again.

That soon has got stretched a bit but I have not forgotten my promise.

So once again I apologize for my unkind words.

And then there is the issue of US veterans that triggered the whole show down.

I was just watching a video that was just released by Oriya Maqbool Jan Sahab where the issue of US veterans popped up so I thought I must put my feelings about the issue on record.

There are the following.

Like most of the Muslims I was aware of the 2017 report where it was divulged that the US veterans were committing suicide at the rate of about a score a day. This is of epidemic proportions. Sitting in India, away from the was theater of Afghanistan-Syria-Iraq and away from the US, I can not have a nasty or inhuman view of this very sad situation and and I do not hold such views.

What I had thought about it must be put on record otherwise the following dictum would apply : when a peacock danced in the jungle who saw it?

My feelings were that our Ulama and Elders and popular speakers like Mufti Taqi Usmani Sahab, Pir Zulfiqar Ahmed Sahab Naqshbandi Sahab, Maulana Tariq Jamil Sahab, Dr Zakir Naik Sahab, Shaikh Hamza Yusuf, Abdul Hakim Murad, Yasir Qadhi, Shabir Ally, Ustad Ali Atai should be called in, by Muslim Organizations, to address the US veterans all over the US and our scholars should tell the veterans that they, the veterans, should not despair of the Mercy of Allah SWT.

I have a million things on my mind that i have not been able to put on record because like everybody else I think faster than I can type. My above sentiments are among those things that I had not been able to put on record.

Clearly above sentiments are far, far away from what brother In Need of Teaching thought.

To be very honest I still think that this is the only way to bring the US veterans out of this mental torture that they are going through.

Clearly successive US governments have been pulling wool over the public eyes as well as over the eyes of the US defense forces about the nature and character of the conflict in Afghanistan-Iraq-Syria. The service men are the ones who are taken in most cruelly and the sufferer are the veterans, nothing to speak of the Muslim victims.

I urge the Muslim organizations in the US to work on this plan most seriously and I have faith in Allah SWT that this issue of US veterans will be solved within a month or two of our scholars speaking to the veterans.

In my mind there is no Dawah angle in this plan and it is being proposed purely as a humanitarian work.

The US people will have huge reservations about Dr Zakir Naik and we must instruct all speakers to strictly adopt the humanitarian outlook and shun every bit of Dawah zeal. With that we can most humbly request the US people to trust our intentions.

Brothers and sisters who can do the needful in this regard are requested to do so.

With this I rest my case of my feelings and attitude towards US veterans.
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#108 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 15:55
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Hope this brother is doing fine.
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#109 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 16:00
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No reply to my pm or message on telegram.

Last viewed MS in March and last viewed Telegram in in February.

I'm concerned for him. Hope he's okay.

He did mention he had a few health issues.
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#110 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 16:10
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Been making du'as for him. May Allah keep him and his family with aafiyah.

Have you tried calling him through Telegram?
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#111 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 16:11
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Nope. Last posted on MS in May.
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#112 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 16:20
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No, I haven't spoken to him. I sent a message which is still unread.

I'm hoping someone who has spoken to him will be able to get through.

Yes, not logged in since May, my typo, sorry.
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#113 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 16:21
John Bolton in That Room


John Robert Bolton (born November 20, 1948) is an American attorney, diplomat, Republican consultant and political commentator who served as the 25th United States Ambassador to the United Nations from 2005 to 2006 and as the 27th United States National Security Advisor for seventeen months from 2018 to 2019.

His memoirs, The Room Where It Happened, has taken the world by a storm and the market is still hot.

New York Times
tried to play it down.

The Telegraph had its own take.

The Guardian had a little more perspective.

But real points will be told only by our own man : Oriya Maqbool Jan.
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#114 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 16:28
abu mohammed wrote:
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You can also try contacting him via email.
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#115 [Permalink] Posted on 28th June 2020 16:35
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Don't have those details.
Tried calling via Telegram (first time I've ever called anyone) no response, just says waiting and then call cancelled.
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#116 [Permalink] Posted on 11th August 2021 08:31
US Withdrawal from Afghanistan


Source : New Yorker

Quote:
Daily Comment

A Near Press Blackout in Afghanistan

The war that Americans forgot is ending in chaos and secrecy.

By Megan K. Stack

August 4, 2021


Quote:
The exit of the last American commander from Afghanistan was marked by a strange and sombre ceremony. Standing outside the military headquarters in Kabul, among flagpoles left bare by nations that had already pulled down their banners and gone home, Austin Scott Miller, the longest-serving general of America’s longest foreign war, spoke to a smattering of Afghan and U.S. officials and a handful of journalists.

He gave no declaration of victory, nor promise of return. The brief, formal event sounded, at times, like a eulogy. “Our job now is just not to forget,” Miller said. “It will be important to know that someone remembers, that someone cares, and that we’re able to talk about it in the future.”

The mission flag was rolled and handed off from Miller to Marine Corps General Kenneth F. McKenzie, Jr., who will oversee the Afghan operation from Tampa. The guests wandered back into the city; the reporters peeled off. Miller’s travel plans were secret, and there had been quiet warnings against capturing images of the general boarding a helicopter. Gordon Lubold, who covers the Pentagon for the Wall Street Journal, circled back to the headquarters later that day for a meeting, so he happened to hear Miller’s Blackhawk churning up into the Afghan skies, followed by a Chinook carrying members of Miller’s staff.

“They choreographed it so the media would all but leave,” Lubold said. “We didn’t even know he was leaving that day.”


When does exit look like a eulogy?
A eulogy is recited after someone's death. Who died in this case?
Ans : The US Mission.

Why were the journalists not informed of the General's departure that day?

Ans: For fears of Taliban beating the tail end of the US withdrawal.

Quote:

As the United States rushes to remove its troops from Afghanistan this summer, the Pentagon has imposed a de-facto press blackout on their departure. The military has ignored requests for embeds, denied pleas for even perfunctory interviews with troops, and generally worked to obstruct the public’s view of the United States pulling up stakes. Journalists submitted letters of appeal and protest, but they had no effect. The Times editor Dean Baquet intervened, pressing the Pentagon to allow journalists access to troops and requesting a meeting with Miller to make his case. But the general ignored Baquet’s overture, according to people involved in the incident. Martha Raddatz, the longtime ABC military reporter with a track record of Pentagon exclusives, got access to the troops; others did not.


The least that can be concluded from these observations is that US is withdrawing without a sense of victory.
Quote:

In a sense, the obfuscation was predictable. Leaving a country that many expect will now collapse into civil war, the United States has no victory to declare; it can only acknowledge the reality of relinquishment and retreat. “A military that’s withdrawing from battle, whether it’s an organized withdrawal or a retreat, doesn’t want any media nearby,” said the Getty combat photographer John Moore. “The military wants to show itself in a victorious way. When you’re leaving a field of battle, it never looks victorious.”

Moore, who covered Afghanistan before 2001 and has completed dozens of military embeds there, was among the journalists whose requests to document the withdrawal went ignored. When I messaged the Los Angeles Times reporter Nabih Bulos to ask whether he’d got an embed or a chance to interview troops during a recent trip to Afghanistan, he replied tersely. “I tried. Failed,” he wrote. “They weren’t very accommodating.”


In case Afghanistan collapses into a civil war there is only one party to be blamed - the US.

Quote:

The Pentagon press secretary John Kirby acknowledged the discontent. “I’m not insensitive to that criticism,” he said. He explained that commanders were on guard against Taliban attacks and therefore “miserly” with details of troop movements. He added that a shortage of press officers in Afghanistan made it difficult to arrange embeds and interviews.

To pretend that any war is won or lost is to impose an infantile logic on a complex tangle of murder, primal emotion, and money. Some wars end in mutual exhaustion; others simply go into remission or slip out of our attention range. But it is certainly true that a nation may emerge more or less triumphant from the fray and, along that spectrum, the outcome in Afghanistan was ignominious. The conflict will cost taxpayers more than two trillion dollars, including veteran care and interest on war borrowing, according to the Costs of War project at Brown University, which also estimates that more than a hundred and seventy thousand people died in the conflict, counting Afghan forces, Taliban fighters, and contractors. That figure includes twenty-four hundred U.S. troops and forty-seven thousand civilians who died in a project that failed at its most basic goal of defeating the Taliban, who are now surging back to seize control of districts and, according to human-rights groups, carrying out organized revenge killings.

Only a loser will call a legitimate query infantile.

The outcome in Afghanistan has been certainly ignominious and it should be termed US defeat.

Why were, in 2017, twenty US soldiers committing suicide daily? Because the powers that be had assigned them duties that were inhuman. To call such a war ignominious might be true but even that might be an under assessment.

Two trillion dollars monetary cost.

Hundred seventy thousand lives lost.

Forty seven thousand Taliban martyred.

Twenty seven hundred US troops dead.

And who are the rest of the killed people? Afghan civilians!

Quote:
I went to Afghanistan in 2001, as a young reporter for the Los Angeles Times, and I’ve recently been talking with others who fought, documented, and studied the war. I spoke with old friends and journalism colleagues, with academics, with people in the military and retired from it. I asked everyone the same question: How will the war be remembered? And, strikingly, they all said the same thing: they don’t know, because an answer requires a coherent understanding of the war’s overarching purpose, which nobody has possessed for more than a decade. An occupation that began as an act of vengeance against the planners of September 11th and their Taliban protectors evolved into something more abstract and impossibly ambitious, a sort of wholesale rebirth of Afghanistan as a stable and thriving country. It was a project that few U.S. leaders knew how to complete, but nobody had the strength to stop. And so the United States will end the longest foreign war in its history, and few can articulate what it was for. Naturally, there is dysfunction among the propagandists.


A man who went to Afghanistan as a young reporter in 2001 can not call himself young in 2021.

Imagine the anguish of a Muslim, not necessarily Afghan, who has been observing the things for that long duration.

Think of the Afghans who have lost two decades of their life in this US adventure at their expenses.

And then the wide spectrum, including experts of all sorts, of US people do not know how the war will be remembered. The idiots never thought of thinking of it from the Afghan or Muslim point of view! You did commit untold miseries on the Afghans even if you could not bath yourself in any glory.

And even after getting disoriented in Afghanistan they continued their operations, read atrocities, for a full decade! One really runs out of exclamations while counting their ignominies.

Then the reporter lapses into the dubious project of rebirth of Afghanistan as a new nation. One does not feel even like asking for a break. Not only the propagandists but even the cynics are exhausted.

And the longest war in US history left them exhausted and not victorious.
Quote:

“How can you turn the page on a book when you don’t even know what was written?” Catherine Lutz, a co-founder of the Costs of War project, asked. “We still haven’t done an accounting of all the losses and of all the fraud and abuse.”

The most optimistic assessment of the conflict came from Steve Warren, a longtime Pentagon spokesman who got pushed out of his job early in the Trump Administration. He predicted that the U.S. public would recall the war as having been more successful than Vietnam, though hardly a victory. “The goal was to kill Osama bin Laden. We killed that son of a bitch. He’s dead,” Warren said. “So, win.”


Pathetic.
Quote:

But Warren also spoke of his own disillusionment with the war in Afghanistan, a kind of disgusted fatigue that descended upon him so abruptly and absolutely he compared it to Saul’s conversion on the road to Damascus. It came upon him years ago, when he’d been assigned to work on the issue of veteran suicides. One day, he simply hit a wall. “I just got so sick of it all,” he said. “What are we doing? Stop. Enough. It’s time to go home.”

The post-September 11th wars have been notable for repackaging invasion and occupation as “nation-building,” a charitable undertaking in which the United States would teach a foreign country how to function better. But the Americans could never present a stable or convincing new reality to ordinary Afghans, who watched as security crumbled and new forms of corruption flowed from the slosh of cash and contracts that came with the occupation. Meanwhile, the Taliban, bolstered by Pakistan, mounted an increasingly effective campaign of insurgency, killing U.S.-backed Afghan troops and police officers at a staggering rate. This uneasy combination of violence and quixotic civic engagement led to genuine confusion among those who served, as well as the American public, who sometimes expressed indignation that invaded countries were not more grateful to the United States. “Are we helping people or are we killing people?” as Warren put it.


If you end up in disgusted fatigue then it is not an outcome better than Viet Nam war. Taliban made the US delve into their theology. A bit of another thing has to be reminded to them.

You went there to kill Osama bin Laden and you killed him. To take on the Taliban was an ego problem and that got thwarted.

And you wanted to kill Osama because he did 9/11. And you never did soul searching why Osama did 9/11.

And then they also have the cheek to call invasion and occupation as nation building. These guys are impossible.

They veto all criticism of the Zionists in the UN and then they have the gall to tell Afghans, not the people who committed 9/11, how to function better.

They had their puppet governments in Afghanistan, twenty years is a very long time, and then they are disappointed that they could not communicate the new reality to the Afghans. That is another wow.

And if Taliban killed US backed Afghan troops then the onus for these deaths is again on the US.

And why did Pakistan back Taliban? Well on the first place Pakistan was arm twisted to be part of this so called war on terror.

And then the delusion - the US public thought that they were in Afghanistan to help the Afghans. Be clear on that. You were in Afghanistan to kill Osama bin Laden and before and after that you were killing the Afghans.









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#117 [Permalink] Posted on 11th August 2021 09:17
Second Part of Above Post


Quote:
As time went on, American interest in reports from the Afghan war seemed to dwindle dramatically. “I didn’t sense a great, strong interest in the Afghanistan story,” Kirby pointed out, until the withdrawal announcement led to a “spike” in journalists eager to rush back to Kabul. Within two years of the invasion, the nation’s magazines and newspapers had started referring to Afghanistan as a “forgotten war.” Soon the phrase “war weary” became a staple in writing about Afghanistan.

If it is, indeed, a forgotten war, perhaps it’s because nobody wants to dwell on the inglorious exploits and depraved alliances that have punctuated it. To single out any one of them is to undersell the others, but to list them all you’d need a book. In Afghanistan, the U.S. and its proxies rounded people up and shipped them off to Guantánamo. It was the country that came under more fire than any other through the controversial program of U.S. drone strikes. In Afghanistan, through a tangle of enemy-of-my-enemy pacts and dubious compromises, the United States found itself backing vicious warlords, including the former military commander Abdul Rashid Dostum, who, early in the war, tortured and then packed hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Taliban prisoners into transport containers. In their dying hours, Dostum’s captives licked the sweat off their neighbors’ skin in a desperate attempt to slake their thirst. Dostum now controls a heavily fortified hilltop base in Kabul and a feared militia in his northern birthplace of Jowzjan Province; he is a close ally of Turkey, whose troops are now expected to defend the Kabul airport from Taliban onslaught.

So the interest of US public dwindled rapidly and within two years it became forgotten war and the reporting became war weary.

Very interesting.

I remember just a few years ago Muadh Khan warning us not listen to even G!h@d Nasheeds because of the dire possibilities.

But depleted public interest and weariness are good adjectives to appear before the inglorious exploits and depraved alliances.

And may Abdur Rasheed Dostum meet his inglorious end soon.

Quote:
Perhaps no single site better symbolized the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan, from beginning to end, than Bagram Airfield. Built by the Soviet Union and occupied by Soviet troops during an earlier, similarly ill-fated intervention, it was lavishly refurbished and expanded by the U.S. as the war dragged along.

Last month, however, when it came time to leave, the military simply turned off the electricity and spirited the last troops away in the dead of night. Looters from surrounding villages, realizing that the Americans had left, climbed over the walls and laid waste to the abandoned stocks of Gatorade and Pop-Tarts. The following morning, the Afghan commander caught on that his allies had vanished. Hearing rumors that the last U.S. troops had pulled out of Bagram without informing local officials, the Associated Press reporter Kathy Gannon repeatedly called Colonel Sonny Leggett, then a Kabul-based U.S. military spokesman. According to Gannon, Leggett at first declined her calls. (Leggett, who has left Kabul and is in the process of retiring, said he was no longer authorized to comment and referred questions to the U.S. Central Command; a spokesman, Bill Urban, said that he didn’t know what had happened with Gannon’s calls but that he was sure Leggett was committed to “maximum disclosure with minimum delay.”) The military later said that it had discussed the departure from Bagram with higher-ranking Afghan officials, blaming the confusion on a misunderstanding.


We Muslims are interested in your inglorious exploits including Bagram ( and Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo Bay).

And leaving in the dead of night and avoiding press calls is certainly inglorious end of a mission.

Quote:
A few days later, Gannon, who has covered Afghanistan since 1986, visited Bagram and spoke with an Afghan commander and his soldiers as they took stock of the abandoned airfield. “These soldiers were just sort of wandering around inside this massive compound. It was their first time there,” she said. “A lot of them were a little bit angry and had a bad taste in their mouth about how it had happened, the fact that the electricity had gone out like that. . . . They felt they were veterans of this war and here they were being left with a skeleton of what was there.”


Shame.

Quote:
As I listened to Gannon’s story, I realized that I, too, have pawed through the leavings at a base in Afghanistan. I still have the Pashto-English dictionary I lifted from a hastily abandoned Al Qaeda compound in Jalalabad in 2001. The terrorists had taken their wives and children and fled to the mountains, leaving behind a jumble of baby shoes and bomb-mixing chemicals, fake passport stamps, and a French cookbook. Teen-aged Afghan soldiers wandered the rooms with roses from the garden tucked behind their ears, shooting left-behind chickens for food and shoving plastic toys into their pockets. The neighbors grumbled that the vanished families, whom they called “the Arabs,” were rich and haughty; they had resented the foreigners’ power over local officials and feared angering them.

For a Muslim the word terrorists stands out in this narrative.
The narrator would think that every body will have a negative connotation about these people.
May be the Afghan soldiers mentioned in this paragraph would.
No other Muslim would.
Quote:
I recall rooting through the papers like a greedy child shredding Christmas wrappings, and having the sense of not finding what I’d somehow expected. I’d go into rooms, portentous rooms that had been occupied by killers, looking for evidence of violent minds but finding, every time, the dull possessions of human beings.

Yes, the Afghan soldiers will have exactly the same feelings.
Quote:
Now it all loops back on itself. Now the Americans are the ones who came in, walled themselves off, and then vanished in the night.

This is not an inglorious end of a war but and inglorious end of US innings at the world stage.
Quote:
Between these two withdrawals, there was a stretch when the military thought it could salvage the Afghan story. As it prepared for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Pentagon had announced a large-scale program to embed hundreds of journalists with the troops advancing toward Baghdad; the strategy of embedding rotations of reporters to embed with military units soon spread to Afghanistan, puncturing some of the secrecy that had characterized the early days of the war.

American century might have been glorious, I doubt it, but the end looks shameful.
The US killed about two hundred thousand Afghans because they would not hand over Osama bin Laden to the US.

Quote:
Embedded journalists would see things from the perspective of the troops, or so the military planners believed. They’d photograph and write about brave young soldiers. And, of course, reporters tagging along on foot patrols or hanging around on bases would have less time to poke around in the bigger questions of the war, about the money and lives spent, the abuses unfolding in places they would not be escorted to visit.

Thanks for reporting this.
Quote:

In the latter Bush and early Obama years, embeds were easy to get and wildly popular for all concerned. Fashion and sports writers came to find their combat angles; local TV crews caught free rides to war zones on military planes; press officers called up their favorite photographers and told them to block off their calendars. You won’t want to miss this.

We had already surmised that the US has lost the ability to mount a similar aggression but these revelations are even more telling.
Quote:
But, eventually, all of that mutual benefit went sour. The embed program never formally or completely ended, but slowly, during the Obama years, interest from journalists and opportunities from the military dwindled away in tandem. Obama was breaking his promise to withdraw all U.S. troops. Afghan poverty and corruption were getting worse, and the Taliban were resurgent. Trust was so eroded that U.S. trainers wouldn’t step onto a firing range to work with Afghan sharpshooters unless the Afghans’ guns were loaded with blanks.

One possible way to summarize this would be to say that the US lost to the Taliban.
Quote:
There wasn’t much to showcase, and the U.S. public was amenable to ignoring it. If it’s true that the military kept the war shrouded when it was convenient, it’s also true that very few Americans went looking for it.

The least that has to be concluded from this is that the US was worn out.
Politicians.
Journalists.
Public.
The Marines.
Not the Taliban.
Quote:
“One of the guiding principles is to keep the American people on our side at all costs,” Warren told me. “Controlling the imagery, controlling the message, controlling the sentiment is always geared toward that singular goal—don’t let the American people think we failed. Don’t let them think that, no matter what.”

And what about the rest of the world, including the NATO allies of the US. And the Saffron bigots in my country? And the Lib-dem retards?
Quote:
So maybe it all worked out: they didn’t have to show us, and we didn’t have to look.





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#118 [Permalink] Posted on 11th August 2021 15:41
When will we Muslims agonize about our interests the way two of my country mates are doing in this video.
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#119 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2021 03:41
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Amazing analysis in the two lengthy posts above, Professor sahab. Jazakallah.

It looks like the age of China is upon us now. The Americans seem to be in their final throes globally.

TV9 tried to corner the Afghan spokesperson Maulana Sohail Shaheen, but even with the severely doctored interview, his responses did well to expose the hypocrisy of the enemies of the Taliban. The comments to the video by even non Muslims showed that it was important for everyone to listen to the Taliban's perspective before coming to any conclusions about Afghanistan.

May Allah Taala guide and help the Taliban in their noble cause for the betterment of their country.
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#120 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2021 17:15
June 2021 Report

The study finds that at least four times as many active duty personnel and war veterans of post-9/11 conflicts have died of suicide than in combat, as an estimated 30,177 have died by suicide as compared with the 7,057 killed in post-9/11 war operations. The report notes that the increasing rates of suicide for both veterans and active duty personnel are outpacing those of the general population - an alarming shift, as suicide rates among service members have historically been lower than suicide rates among the general population.
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