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Meaning of US-Taliban Talks

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 07:33
In Need of Teaching wrote:
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You are equating the soldiers in Afghanistan with all former US military alive today.

No I was not.
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Do you believe that every former US Service Man or Woman oppresses Muslims?

Why the heck should I give a damn as long as there are already too many doing that?
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Do you know that there are Muslims serving and have served in the US Military?

And that justifies the US atrocities on Muslims.
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I am a veteran of the US Army, yet I have never served in any country except the US and Germany.
Am I an oppressor?

I'll accept it in good faith that you might not have rubbed Muslims in a wrong way.

US Muslims would certainly give you the respect due to a veteran. You shall not count me among them.

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You are making a blanket statement about all former US military members and seem to enjoy that they are committing suicide at a deplorable rate.


When I make a blanket statement about all former US military members then the responsibility falls upon you to discern that I would exclude those who are not guilty of crimes against Muslims. This is called common sense.

I am a Muslim and I do not enjoy when people commit suicide. I am outraged and I can speak for all Muslims here that we are completely flabbergasted at such an eventuality.

And this is true, I mean not enjoying people's suicides, even if the people committing the ignominy might be those who might have committed ignominy against Muslims, men, women and children.
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You can't even seem to acknowledge that it was wrong to do so.

You are cursing my brain and you are cursing my courage. Forgiven but will not be forgotten.
In Need of Teaching wrote:
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I'll hopefully end my participation in this thread with a final thought.

I suppose I should heave a sigh of relief? How can I? Your nice soldiers are leaving Afghanistan without a word of apology.
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WAR is horrible, it always has been and always will be.

In spite of the fact that you have not served against any Muslim country I can make such a case about your military service that you you'll not feel like eating that day. Since you are my brother I am forgiving you.
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INNOCENTS always die in wars, it's a damn shame, but it's a fact.

For the record I do love this part of US people's personality.
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No one CELEBRATES the death of innocents, or at least no sane person.

This time it goes to my mental health straight. Sadly you are not insane yourself.
I doubt that you'll be able to answer before Allah SWT. Fear Him. If He, Exalted is He, gets angry then even my best supplications will not of any help to you.

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When anyone commits atrocities by INTENTIONALLY killing civilians, they are criminals.

My brother we were not born yesterday.

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 12:22

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He is defending his people (Americans) and their actions in Iraq.

Just like

Indians have been defending their people (Indians) and their actions in Kashmir.

As I have been saying for over 10+ years:

If you are going to defend Muslims joining Indian Army and KILLING then Muslims joining American Army and KILLING is the same.

Indian Ulama have issued Fatwaas permitted Indian Muslims joining Indian Army so Americans joining US Army are no different.

Either you condemn BOTH or NONE, what is your stance?

 
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 13:13
Maripat wrote:
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Quote:
You are equating the soldiers in Afghanistan with all former US military alive today.
Quote:
Do you believe that every former US Service Man or Woman oppresses Muslims?
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Do you know that there are Muslims serving and have served in the US Military?

Your responses in order:
No I was not.
Why the heck should I give a damn as long as there are already too many doing that?
And that justifies the US atrocities on Muslims.

Please explain how your responses are not painting all veterans the same.

Quote:
I am a Muslim and I do not enjoy when people commit suicide. I am outraged and I can speak for all Muslims here that we are completely flabbergasted at such an eventuality.
I will take you at your word. Why are you relating Veteran suicide rates to this topic?

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In spite of the fact that you have not served against any Muslim country I can make such a case about your military service that you you'll not feel like eating that day.
I sincerely doubt that, but you are welcome to try Professor.

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Since you are my brother I am forgiving you.
You should have been the one seeking my forgiveness. I will not say publicly why, but you know the reason.

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No one CELEBRATES the death of innocents, or at least no sane person.

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This time it goes to my mental health straight.
Why? It was a valid general statement. My last post had nothing to do with you.

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When anyone commits atrocities by INTENTIONALLY killing civilians, they are criminals.

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My brother we were not born yesterday.
Do you truly believe that the US Service men and women deliberately target civilians? I'm talking about with guns, because both sides could truly argue all day about aerial bombardment.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 13:29
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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He is defending his people (Americans) and their actions in Iraq.
I am, and with no hesitation.

That doesn't mean I necessarily agree with the political process that sent those men and women into harms way.
Now that I no longer serve in the military, I have the right to question those things.
When you are in the service, you do not have that right. You go where you are told and you do what you are told to do.

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 16:57
In Need of Teaching wrote:
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Please explain how your responses are not painting all veterans the same.

I never said that all veterans commit suicide.
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Why are you relating Veteran suicide rates to this topic?

Obama came in 2008. Even since the US was trying to extricate itself from Afghanistan. Twelve years, from 2008 to 2020, is a long time to leave scene of war. Too long. Your brave country has not declared victory and this issue, not declaring victory, is there in the press. Now for several years they, your country, are in talks with the Taliban - to get out of a Muslim country after killing innumerable people. Why would a brave country talk to such bad people as Taliban? Because they are clueless about what they have done and what has happened and not at all clear about their aims and objectives.

And if they had any clue about why their veterans are committing suicide they certainly would have done some thing about it.

Does it get connected?
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I sincerely doubt that, but you are welcome to try Professor.

I had assumed that you had some conscience left in you. I was mistaken.
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You should have been the one seeking my forgiveness.

Do you realize that US public policy does not come out as chilling as your conversation here?
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I will not say publicly why, but you know the reason.

I'll leave out any investigation at the moment about what you mean here.
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Why? It was a valid general statement. My last post had nothing to do with you.

You could not fool Taliban but you can fool me. Pathetic consolation.
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Do you truly believe that the US Service men and women deliberately target civilians? I'm talking about with guns, because both sides could truly argue all day about aerial bombardment.

No faith or belief needed here. The facts are there on the ground and when you deny it you fool none but lose your own credibility.
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 16:59
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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He is defending his people (Americans) and their actions in Iraq.

Just like

Indians have been defending their people (Indians) and their actions in Kashmir.

As I have been saying for over 10+ years:

If you are going to defend Muslims joining Indian Army and KILLING then Muslims joining American Army and KILLING is the same.

Indian Ulama have issued Fatwaas permitted Indian Muslims joining Indian Army so Americans joining US Army are no different.

Either you condemn BOTH or NONE, what is your stance?

Muadh Khan you will not get my permission to kill Muslims.


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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 17:16

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Then make a principled stance that you are against any Solider killing civilians (Muslim or otherwise) and I am with you.

Why single out America? They are not doing anything which Saudees are not doing in Yemen. In fact, Saudees are more incompetent so killing more civilians per engagement then Americans.


 
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 19:12
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Well, you have managed to lose the respect I had for you.
You're not even man enough to apologize for your vitriolic comments directed at me in your deleted post.

fwiw, I've forgiven you anyhow.

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 22:18
I don't really know if I need to say this, but I will so there's no confusion.
I'm not FOR killing people, any people.
Military personnel do not get to decide when or who to fight.
IF you are ever unfortunate enough to find yourself in a war zone, you will do what you need to do to survive.

I support the men and women in the US armed forces, I'm not ashamed to admit that. I would imagine that most people are for the members of their respective nations who are military members too. There's nothing wrong with that.
You don't have to like the war or battle or the reason for it happening.

In my opinion, you do a disservice to those military members if you can't support them.
No matter what you may think, they are just people and they're fighting so you don't have to.
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 10th March 2020 23:14
In Need of Teaching wrote:
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Yep, sounds just like the Indians way of support.
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 11th March 2020 04:34
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Then make a principled stance that you are against any Solider killing civilians (Muslim or otherwise) and I am with you.

Why single out America? They are not doing anything which Saudees are not doing in Yemen. In fact, Saudees are more incompetent so killing more civilians per engagement then Americans.

Muadh Khan I have clarified that issue in some detail for you earlier in a different context. We can take it up again at some other time. It is indeed the right time to ask this question when we are in a very delicate discussion with this another veteran but nearly impossible to answer on my part. Have patience and it will be sorted out, Lord Most High Willing.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 11th March 2020 04:42
In Need of Teaching wrote:
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Well, you have managed to lose the respect I had for you.

Entirely my loss sir.
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You're not even man enough to apologize for your vitriolic comments directed at me in your deleted post.

I have not deleted any post sir. I apologize for my vitriolic unconditionally but kindly do point this out to me.
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fwiw, I've forgiven you anyhow.

You are an honourable person sir.

Finally I have not gone through my old post before typing this response but I would still assert that when I say that your country has no clue about veterans killing themselves it is a comment on those who take decisions to send soldiers like you to the field but later on do not know how to take care of the damaged, bruised and fragile. Please read my posts again you should know that Islam has not taught me to jeer at other people's misfortunes.

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 11th March 2020 05:01
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Maripat,
This is a post from the man I have come to know on here.
Thank you for clearing a few things up for me.
I'm beginning to think someone may have used your computer without your permission.
I will send you a PM with what was said, so that you can confirm it was not you and you may look into whomever may have caused the mischief.
The post was deleted by Admin staff.
This is the man I DO respect.
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 11th March 2020 05:13
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The ulama of Pakistan advise the masses to wholeheartedly support the Pakistani Armed Forces, in spite of any apparent shortcomings, because they are the only ones dedicated to the defense of the borders. If the masses differ with the policies of the government, they take recourse through the checks and means provided by the constitution.

The ulama of India also tell us that our rights and duties are enshrined in the constitution and we are bound by the letter and spirit of the constitution, because that is the written agreement we as citizens of India have imposed upon ourselves. We are peoples of different faiths, so we come together on a set of common ideals that we can all abide by, and that is our constitution. Respect for the institutions of government is non-negotiable. If the government or any of its agencies falls short of their duties, we have recourse to our judiciary and other democratic means. The problems we have in our country are an internal matter. They are for us to solve. We will say and do things that outsiders will find hypocritical, cowardly even, and that is just the way international politics plays out. Our constitution guarantees us the freedom of religion, and that is why we are loyal to our country and our armed forces.

If other Muslims around the world are patriotic to their countries, we really cannot have any issues with that.

The concept of the Muslim Ummah is that if one part is oppressed, we all collectively feel the pain. What we choose to do about it has to be very very carefully thought out. We cannot create conditions through our speech and actions that makes the situation worse for that part of the Ummah that is already suffering.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 11th March 2020 06:00
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If other Muslims around the world are patriotic to their countries, we really cannot have any issues with that.

Is there place for patriotism in our deen? Even then Muslims being patriotic towards a Muslim country is one thing, Muslims being patriotic about a country whose foundation is on kufr is a completely different thing,

I mean, I understand some brothers being politically correct here to appease certain other brothers, but come on, don't lose the plot completely.
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