Moonsighting again :)

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 29th May 2019 18:05

Salam.

I hope this will be my last ever discussion on this topic which many off u knw i can't get my head around.

Can someon in simple layman terms tell me exactly what wifaqul ulema criteria is. Iv been on the website and couldn't find something which was straight forward and easy to understand.

From what iv picked up from here and others is that they only accept testimony from countries to the east and that have a scientific possibility off sighting moon.

Yet in practice all i ever see is them just following south Africa like sheep. I knw this offends people but iv seen it in practice. I won't mention names but not many years ago i was at a pro wifaqul ulema masjid were many are senior people within WU. We were told go look for moon after maghrib. One of the guys who i think is a trustee or something of wifaqul ulama got a text from South Africa sayin negative sighting and told imam and others no eid tomorrow. He didn't even bother to wait.

What would of happened if we saw moon? Has wifaqul ulama EVER accepted a sighting from anyone other than South Africa and morroco? It seems each time there is a claim and moon graph shows its possible for that country to see it wifaqul still find reason not to accept. I knw many friends who were once hardcore advocates of WU now gone back to Saudi sayin they no different to one's to blindy follow Saudi

Finally there is video doin the rounds on WhatsApp from someone up north sayin eid will be on weds as no one will be able to see moon Mon night even Saudi cos moon will be 5hrs old.
If this is case then exactly when do saudi sight moon? I thought as long as moon was born Saudis will accept a sighting even if its 1hr old. So how can he be sure desert man Abdullah won't see it Mon night? What was different with beginning of Ramadan that made them able to see moon as the moon charts showed it bein impossible for saudi to see it.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 29th May 2019 20:12

This post covers a lot. The thread itself answers a lot of your questions too.

www.muftisays.com/forums/61-ramadhaan/12602-raman-1440.ht...

Also, did you consider the moon set time for the UK when that incident took place?

Was it cloudy?

South Africa is in a similar horizon. Other moonsighting groups also used South Africa until recently. Currently, some have dropped South Africa due to these differences for the next decade or so (I could be wrong) otherwise they too accepted their testimony.

From my understanding, South Africa is still accepted by Wifaqul Ulama to maintain that unity, Allahu alum.

Saudi sight the moon on the 28th as shown in the linked thread.

There is the possibility they will do Eid on Tuesday, but since the moon cannot be seen on our horizon, nor our neighbours horizon, it won't be accepted.

By the way, I don't speak for Wifaqul Ulama. I'm a layperson.

Alternatively, you can contact them directly using the contact details given in the same linked thread or by using their website which you are familiar with.

If you intend to learn with a positive attitude and positive mindset, you may see things clearly. But if you want to digress into futile discussion, the light will remain as dim as the hilal :) One may need more than an optical aid to see the light :)

I know others who know exactly what's going on and why, but they still want to argue for the sake of arguing. No matter how much evidence is given or how simply it is explained, their objective is to argue and therefore they are left in the dark thinking they won a debate whereas it's the others who have allowed them to make a fool out of themselves.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 29th May 2019 21:11

Salam,

Any actual examples of this?

Quote:

It seems each time there is a claim and moon graph shows its possible for that country to see it wifaqul still find reason not to accept.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2019 01:50

I've not seen this page before as I'm not familiar with their website, but one google search produced this result in the first hit

www.wifaqululama.co.uk/criteria/

Have you looked at this page?

(I haven't, so I can't comment on it's simplicity or complexity. I hope you find it of benefit)

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2019 09:51

Yasin wrote:

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well this year it was mozambique and other african countries. last year or the year before they dismissed sighting from i think it holland.

ive followed wifaqul since they came around 2008 as both my local masjids follow them and i have no doubt saudi is dubious to say the least but over the years iv noticed wifaqul seem to rely solely on south africa. i know people heavily involved in masjid umer croyden mosque and few others in south london and all same to get the same feeling. if south africa see it we go ahead and annoucne evne if its not setset for us and if they dont see it then we declare no eid/ramadan regardless who else claims to see it elsewhere. this is what my main gripe is. i accept south africa have similar time zone and stuff to us but seems like its a guji gang operating in 3 countries which SA being the ring leader and what they say goes..

@abumhammed, jzk for the link I will have a read durng my lunch break

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2019 09:57

Mozambique and the other countries have already been fully explained in the first link.

Also here: www.wifaqululama.co.uk/ramadhan1440/

There are Shari' reasons given why sightings were rejected.

Quote:

There was a split within Mozambique (itself) and this sighting was rejected by some. All neighbouring countries (to Mozambique) also rejected the Mozambique sighting including Malawi, Tanzania, Zambia and Zimbabwe.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2019 10:00

Wifaqul Ulama wrote:

Future Agreements:
Nederland:
Islamitisch Observatorium Nederland in Holland has been conducting monthly Moonsighting for some time. WifÄqul UlÄmÄ is currently discusssing the need for a bilateral moonsighting agreement with them and sighting will be accepted based on agreed principles, once the agreement has been concluded.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2019 10:05

But do you have any actual examples like a written record, announcement, newsletter,
tweet, video, email or anything similar for:

Quote:

It seems each time there is a claim and moon graph shows its possible for that country to see it wifaqul still find reason not to accept.

This way we can request an explanation professionally

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2019 11:00

mkdon101 wrote:

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ÙˆØ¹Ù„ÙŠÙƒÙ… Ø§Ù„Ø³Ù„Ø§Ù…

These same questions have been answered to the same individual multiple times on this forum.

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abu mohammed wrote:

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Forget Mozambique and Kenya, we rejected the Moons ighting in France and here is why:

Quote:

Moonsighting of France most certainly makes a lot more sense for Britain than following the sighting of distant countries but as it stands, it cannot be enforced on millions of British Muslims when those who are sighting (the Moon) abandon their own sighting and follow another decision. Those sighting the moon in France as it stands do not have their sighting validated by French Scholars and in addition they do not follow their own sighting but act in contradiction to their (own) observed sighting and follow Grande MosquÃ©e de Paris. Since they are abandoning their own sighting and acting in contradiction to their own personal observance in terms of Fiqh, the sighting cannot be used by British Muslims without another method of verification. It is not a matter of just plucking Ramadhan sighting from France but the whole system needs to be looked at and analysed. We have been actively looking at this option and will continue to work with OLMF. Currently, Wifaqul Ulama uses French sightings for secondary verification when a primary (credible and verified) sighting has already occurred.

Surely, people should have a bigger issue with France compared to Kenya and Mozambique.

Quote:

One option is for the UK to adopt French sighting and for Wifaqul Ulama to send a team every single month (physically) to France, sight the Moon on the ground and also act as QadhaÌ„ to validate the OLMF sightings.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd April 2020 16:16

abu mohammed wrote:

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ssaad wrote:

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If Saudi Arabia has any decency, then the least they can do is say that the moon was NOT sighted but will complete 30 days of Sha'baan.

Then again, if the moon sighting criteria was correct and they were honest, as of today, they could say they made an error at the start of Sha'baan and so Sha'baan will complete 31 days due to their mistakes.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd April 2020 17:22

ssaad wrote:

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HaramainInfo tweeted 2 minutes after Makkah Sunset time.

The announcement was made before sunset.

No sighting was made. Declaration was made based on, in layman's terms, A computer generated image - CCD!

Sighting (not CCD imaging) should happen on the 29th EVERY MONTH.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 24th April 2020 08:09

I am living in middle of a city. So I can't do this experiment, can someone please do this.

Get the moonset time in your city. Look for the moon 15 to 20 minutes before moonset. I doubt, we can locate it. (Don't locate the moon before that, it can bias us)

The reason for 20 minutes is, yesterday, moon set was 20 minutes after sunset. Sot the altitude, height of the moon on sky will be same as yesterday at sunset.

Yesterday 0.4 % of full moon was visible. Today it is 2.0%, technically it is called phase of moon.

If this experiment is done in Saudia, it will be appreciated.

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Moonsighting again :)

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