liberalism vs religion

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2019 10:05

sipraomer wrote:

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You have taken my post way out of context.

Would you like another example?

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2019 10:07

abu mohammed wrote:

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Were you pointing your qadiani post in a general sense or were you pointing it towards the links I and mkdon have shared?

If it was in general sense then I apologize for mis-understanding your post. If it was towards the links then I have said what I have to say.

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2019 10:14

sipraomer wrote:

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Apology accepted :)

I always forgive and forget, so no worries brother.

But please read what is written and not what you think is written.

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2019 15:41

abu mohammed wrote:

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I am an emotional and reactionary person. Please pardon my bullheadedness.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 05:25

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I've seen a lot of these kind of sayings from the salaf. They would be regarded as very very sectarian by most people today. But should we really care too much about what most people think today? Also back then the people of innovation were very pious and had a lot of attachment to the Sunnah, nothing like these YouTube Daa'ees. But it seems that these sayings of the salaf are no longer relevant the way people throw them to one side. Maybe there's a YouTube video out there defending these warnings of the Salaf.

I remember once listening to that Andalusi brother with another brother debate a couple of Christians on the age at which Aisha رضي الله عنه married. Andalusi's argument was that back in those days the life expectancy was only 35 so girls were forced to marry extra early. That is apologetic rubbish that is typical from liberals. His partner went one step further by saying that all the narrations about this are all weak. So he's basically saying don't even trust the Hadiths in Bukhari. Now imagine thousands of ignorant people watching and swallowing these pieces of wisdom like they're gold dust. They're one step away from becoming a Hadith rejecter or already there. They went in there to strengthen they're Iman and came out with possibly no Iman. And worse, they're none the wiser! You can't say people are not taking fiqh from these guys, when they're messing with their Iman without even realising it.

I understand we should take wisdom from anyone if we happen to come across it, just like a lost property if one happens to stumble across it. But that's completely different to encouraging ignorant people to wade into a minefield.

Maulana Thanwi رضي الله عنه said that the Mashaikh say that the Deeni speech of a Fasiq has zulmat in it, and the Dunyaa'ee speech of an Allah Wala person has Noor in it. These are hidden things that most people can't perceive straight away, but the effects are undeniably there. He also advised to check carefully the author of any books you read. If the author is pious then there will be Noor, but if the author is not pious then one should avoid. If it a necessity and one is qualified to be safe (be careful of thinking too much of oneself though), even then one should tread carefully.

Personally, I've seen a lot of negative effects on brothers who listen to anyone and everyone with this attitude. Worse is that often the brother doesn't even realise the negative effects. A lot of times what he sees is good is actually very wrong and the other way round too. I've seen quite a few stop putting importance on many of the Sunnats, and a few even start rejecting the authenticity of Bukhari. And to top it all, they think that they've progressed in terms of Ilm and Yaqeen!

Amal is directly linked to Imam and Yaqeen. Trying to gain Yaqeen from a person of weak Amal will backfire more often than not. I suppose that's just one of many reasons why the salaf were very strict on this matter.

If a person has doubts, then he should be encouraged to contact a pious Muttaqi Alim. They are still around and they are able to address such doubts. Even assuming all the pious Ulama have become extinct or they're all incompetent, if a person takes the correct course of action, Allah himself will arrange for that person's doubts to be removed. But you'd likely be inviting trouble from Allah, by going against the advices of a Salaf. Many people don't even try to take the correct course of action and trust the results with Allah. They just want an excuse to listen to any Tom.

One might delude oneself to think that he's safe, spiritually and intellectually, but please don't happen that door closed by the salaf, for all the other ignorant people out there.

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 06:38

Hasan1 wrote:

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Please give me the contact of those authentic and pious ulema who can defeat secularists and liberalists in such a manner in their own language. I am not talking about those who use Arabic terms and ancient philosophical arguments. I am talking about fresh up to date arguments. I would like to listen to such ulema. Please name one alim who is authentic and reliable and have studied John Locke, Thomas Hobes, David Hume.

Also what is your opinion regarding Dr.Israr Ahmed Rh?

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 07:53

@sipraomer

You said:

''We need this kind of knowledge to strengthen our iman and to know with yaqeen that these are all batil ideologies with very weak and contradictory foundations and that our deen is the best, pure, natural and accurate way of life.''

Do you really need refutation of batil ideologies to make your iman stronger.

If nobody refutes,, then, will your iman become weaker...?

This game of allegations and refutations will never come to end.

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 08:04

Hasan1 wrote:

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Do you have any proof or source that andalusi said this? I've heard many of his debates and TV appearances never have I heard him say that. I can tell you for a fact the guy is not an apologist he has openly and successfully defended Islam's positions on murtads n gays.

I suspect ur issue is he isn't a deo or his beard is not long enough. Deo scholars themselves (minority) deny aishas ages even some prominent UK deo alims ( il run it past the admins first before I give their names).

Also whenever I seen a deo scholar on TV iv never felt so embarrassed they are out of their depth and come across so desperate to be accepted.

Finally as the brother before me said. What scholar comes close to andalusi in dealing with liberals atheism and secularist. Most deo can't even give definitons of them never mind refuting. Closes we have who someone does a good job but accepts people like mohammed hijab and others are more specialist in there areas is mufti abdur rahman who has done a few talks on liberalism and atheists.

Il wait for you to post link or video of where andalusi denys aishas age or says women died earlier back then. Even if he did say the latter what's the issue?. Fact is this was normal back then. What Muslim practises that now ( excluding nut cases and forced /abusive marriages)

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 09:52

Liberalism is a Religion

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 15:12

Arfatzafar wrote:

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Assalam o Alaikum brother!

Yes! There are other ways of strengthening our iman but we are not living in a vacuum. Either choose to isolate yourself from the rest of the society. Otherwise if we are going to deal with these people then we have to have intellectual ammunition as well as spiritual strength to deal with these fitnas.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 15:12

mkdon101 wrote:

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The talks by Shaykh Kamaluddin on these topics are more academic from a Western point of view and more scholarly by an Islamic point of view. I would agree generally with Hasan1. See the IslamicSp channel on YouTube, especially the videos on:

1 - Science, Rationality, New Atheism

2 - Existence of God

3 - Feminism

And the rest as well.

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 15:53

sipraomer wrote:

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wa alaikum assalam bro

I know Muslims living in west are facing big challenges where following religion is considered as backwardness. Sadly, young Muslims are becoming atheists, in such anti Islamic atmosphere whoever is defending Islam is doing a great service for deen.

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 17:25

FrancoMuslim wrote:

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Il give them a go but I doubt they be good as andalusi n hijab. These two specialise in this field plus live in the environment which is a big thing.

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2019 19:04

Some people are focused on the outlook alone and some people value the intellect and inner state more. However, Islam demands the submission of both outer as well as inner state of a person.

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