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Aligarh and Deoband

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2021 06:14
Aligarh and Deoband Success Stories

Pakistan is a manifestation of Aligarh.
Afghanistan today, under Taliban, is a manifestation of Deoband.
(I do not agree with Muadh Khan's interpretation.)
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2021 06:34
Taliban and Deoband


The whole world knew that the Madarsas that produced the Taliban teach the same version of Islam as Deoband.

And there are only two competing versions - Salafi and Barelwi.

But I digress.

Coming back to Taliban and Deoband.

When some media type people approached Maulana Arshad Madani to expound on this connection then he started talking about the activities of the disciples of Shaikh-ul-Hind Mehmoodul Hasan Sahab RA who formed a government of India in exile in Afghanistan. These people were lead by Maulana Obaidullah Sindhi, Raja Mahendra Pratap and Maulana Barkatullah Bhopali.

Now that is a completely different story. A nice, glorious story but that misses the point.

Even Asaduddin Owaisi made a statement that it is wrong to connect Taliban to Deoband.

A You Tube type of social media man went to Deoband and tried to interview common people on the street that terrorists have come to power in Afghanistan and what people from Deoband have to say? Naturally no one gave the sound bites that this ideiot was looking for.

Clearly Deoband would not like to talk about this connection.

I respect their decision.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2021 07:04
Aligarh and Indian Muslims


I have spent a lot of time and energy on the situation of Indian Muslims and particularly in the context of what Aligarh can do to address this situation.

There is one angle that I have not mostly talked about.

Aligarh might look like the natural place to talk, think and analyse the situation of Indian Muslims but it has a serious handicap.

Aligarh's name is associated with the partition of India and both Aligarh people and the rest of India, including Muslims and Hindus, is aware of this.

And takes it into consideration.

Jamia Millia Islamia was started in 1920 in Aligarh, in fact AMU. It moved to Delhi in 1925. Being a so called nationalist institution it does not carry the same stigma as Aligarh does.

It is because of these considerations that many times I get this thought that Jamia is a better place to address the situation of Indian Muslims post partition.

Neither AMU nor Jamia has taken lead in doing the needful.

I'll talk about the abject apathy of AMU professors in this context in a series of posts in my India Diary thread.

But at the moment it should be clear why Sharjeel Imam's agitation was centered at Shaheen Bagh near Jamia and not in Aligarh, though he did speak at AMU's Bab-e-Syed.

And it should also be clear that most of the attempts at addressing the situation of Indian Muslims were done away from Aligarh.

Dr Abdul Jaleel Faridi was a part of a UP government but he was from Lucknow.

The AIMIM party is from Hyderabad.

Maulana Badruddin Ajmal is from Assam.

Muslim League operates in Kerala.

Then we have elections of AMU Students Union, barring the Covid times, where the President, Vice President and the Secretary raise lots of heat and dust inside the campus but mostly fail to hold any ground out side AMU.

And when they operate successfully out side the campus politics their politics is more secular than the politics of the majority community.

These failed Muslim politicians include Azam Khan, Arif Muhammed Khan, AA Fatmi and several others.

After imbibing the AMU ethos I came to the conclusion that it is AMU that has the potential to address the situation of Indian Muslims. And I have been ignoring the baggage that I am talking about in this post.

The majority community is not ignorant of this.

The Saffronites hate AMU (though the local Hindus, including the Saffronites, make full use of the university for their education).

The Lib-Dems might not hate AMU but they are more wary of it than even the Saffronite.

And I realize that Muslims know it.

For years and years I have been seeing and listening to AMU student speakers giving very fiery, fluent and enthusiastic speeches about the condition and status of Indian Muslims and yet they make no dent in the national politics.

There is a magazine called the Meantime published in English from Kerala. I do not know whether it is still printing or not. In one of their issues it carried the interview of the then Congress president Mr Sitaram Kesari. He said that several time the Congress made Muslims in-charge of Muslim affairs and yet even they behaved just like Hindus.

Why? Because every Muslim of India carries the partition baggage.

AMU Muslims carry this baggage more.

Thus AMU Students Union operatives might make fiery speeches inside the campus but they are silent outside it.

In fact by now their activism has been reduced to hold a march from university library to university gate, Bab-e-Syed, and hold a candle vigil there.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2021 07:57
Partition Responsibility Choice


Indian Muslims in general and AMU people in particular have to make a choice about whether they own up the responsibility for partition or not.

One choice is to disown and say that I was not there at the time of partition and hence I have no responsibility.

The other choice is to be up front and accept that yes my forefathers were involved in the partition.

The so called Wise people would prefer the former over the later.

The courageous ones will pick up the latter choice.

This leads us to another question : Is there a natural response to this query?

At the moment I can not think of any.

But our brothers will have their opinion.

The Saffronite is rather clear about it - Muslim created a separate country for themselves and hence have no right to be in India.

The Lib-Dem too is rather clear. Interests of Muslims will be taken care of by the majority community and they should not think on their feet.

I have spent time and energy on this point but I have not come to any resolution.

Partition was about giving Muslim majority areas a separate country.

Why should that be taken as an offense?
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2021 08:37
Maripat wrote:
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??
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2021 13:11
bint e aisha wrote:
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Quote:
A mulhid cannot be a visionary?

Yes, a mulhid can be a visionary, but that is not the point I'm trying to make.

The point I'm trying to make is that I no longer consider marhoom Sir Sayyed to be a mulhid. Far from it. I think he was a visionary leader of the Muslims. He could foresee the dominance that secular education would ultimately have. He wanted Muslims to have equal access to it.
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2021 14:26
Mulhid, depends on standard set.
For a few the statement "I took medicine, I got cured" is ilhaad.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2021 15:43
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2021 03:18
bint e aisha wrote:
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My initial opinion on marhoom Sir Sayyed was based on similar writings.

I now leave the matter to the true tarjuman of Sir Sayyed. These are the deendar and highly respected professors of Aligarh, who are in the best position to comment on his philosophy and vision.
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2021 05:50
sharjan8643 wrote:
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Quote:
My initial opinion on marhoom Sir Sayyed was based on similar writings.

I now leave the matter to the true tarjuman of Sir Sayyed. These are the deendar and highly respected professors of Aligarh, who are in the best position to comment on his philosophy and vision.

You are referring to the Tablighis from our university.
And you are right about them.
About Sir Syed too let us get few things clear.
Sir Syed was what was called Natury even in those days.
That will be like a Salafi.
Yet we must acknowledge that he did indulge in very wrong interpretations of things Islamic.
That will be counted in mistakes of Ijtihad.
And I do not care whether our Maulawis do not find him worthy of Ijtihad.
Arnold Toynbee has remarked that when faced by external threat a society can react in two ways.
Either by emulating the threatening entity or by digging in deep into their own roots.

Sir Syed and hence Aligarh is about copying and imitating and emulating the hen aggressor - the British in particular and the west in general.

But this needed a smooth connection with our Deen and hence his attempt at new interpretation of Islam.

And I suppose he realized in his own life that his attempt will not lead anywhere and hence he wrote to Hazrat Qasim Nanotawi RA to take charge of the theological teachings.

Hazrat Qasim Nanotawi RA sent his grandson for the purpose.

Indeed William Dalrymple rues the fact that theology education at AMU went under Deoband.

"Ab kya bachche ki jaan loge?"

"Will you now kill the child?"

I mean what else you expect from Sir Syed.

Sir Syed is no more and his matter is with Allah SWT.

And obituary of Hazrat Qasim Nanotawi RA that Sir Syed wrote can be compared to any obituary written in all times.

To complete the narrative the other alternative reaction to British aggression against India was opted by Deoband and that is why we are at this forum - to feel connected with each other because we take our Deen from Deoband.

May I add that there need not be any rivalry between Aligarh and Deoband while maintaining their respective stands.

After all Deoband was worried about preserving our Deen while Aligarh was thinking of surviving in face of the western onslaught.
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2021 07:28
I'm still not clear on this. If Sir Syed Ahmed Khan's interpretations were only mistakes of ijtihad and he was only a mujtahid then so is Javed Ahmed Ghamidi, right?
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2021 07:39
bint e aisha wrote:
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It is better for ummah to ignore ijtehaadi mistakes done by past personalities. Let us now highlight their contribution to ummah.

Today Dr Zakir naik did some mistakes. But his unique specialty in his field and his contribution to ummah over weighs his mistakes.
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2021 08:09
hammad880 wrote:
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We should first establish whether those were really ijtihadi mistakes or clear-cut deviation.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2021 08:57
Quote:
We should first establish whether those were really ijtihadi mistakes or clear-cut deviation.

Quote:
And I suppose he realized in his own life that his attempt will not lead anywhere and hence he wrote to Hazrat Qasim Nanotawi RA to take charge of the theological teachings.

Hazrat Qasim Nanotawi RA sent his grandson for the purpose.
We can consider this to be a retraction on the part of marhoom Sir Sayyed.
Quote:
Today Dr Zakir naik did some mistakes. But his unique specialty in his field and his contribution to ummah over weighs his mistakes.
Dr Naik has also repeatedly admitted that jurisprudence is not his field of expertise and he defers jurisprudence matters to the respective experts. So, we can see that he too has issued a retraction.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 21st December 2021 08:57
bint e aisha wrote:
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There are two types of criticizers. Mutashaddid mizaaj and moderate ones.

Let us go with moderate mizaaj.

Abu Zar Ghaffari and Usman RA.

Note: I am not supporting ghamdi or any deviates here. I am discussing about DZN and sir syed.
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