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Aligarh and Deoband

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#61 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2022 13:46
sharjan8643 wrote:
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Today, Both are interdependent. Aligarh needs deoband, deoband needs Aligarh.

Let us stop reading the past.
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#62 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2022 13:53
hammad880 wrote:
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Let us stop reading the past.
Please explain what you mean by this.
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#63 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2022 13:55
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I mean, let us stop studying on Marhoom Sir Syed sab, and the past about Aligarh.
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#64 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2022 14:09
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let us stop studying on Marhoom Sir Syed sab, and the past about Aligarh.
Isn't it important to understand why there was a need for the Aligarh movement?
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#65 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2022 14:37
sharjan8643 wrote:
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Isn't it important to understand why there was a need for the Aligarh movement?

Hammad is talking about Fatwas against Sir Syed.
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#66 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2022 14:44
hammad880 wrote:
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Today, Both are interdependent. Aligarh needs deoband, deoband needs Aligarh.

Sadly neither will agree to it my brother.
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Let us stop reading the past.

I wish that was the case.
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#67 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2022 15:25
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Circumstances have changed. Now both are compelled to accommodate each other, both are interdependent.

Gone are those days when we use to hear "Tata seekhega toe Bata uthayega".

Those were the days when deoband's tablighi jamaath was mocked. Now to stop irtidad, it is a must.

To run the computer network in deoband they need Aligs.
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#68 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2022 15:28
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Tabhlighi markaz public address system is installed, monitored and maintained by Aligs.
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#69 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2022 01:15
hammad880 wrote:
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Generally speaking associating with a group with Baatil views for the sake of IT infrastructure would be considered a very feeble argument.
The Deen suffices a Mumin.

(Regarding the ruling of Digital Photography)
Excrept:
At that point, Hazrat Maulana Asad Madani RA commented that people are becoming murtad and you are still discussing whether it is permissible or not. Mufti Saeed Sahib looked at him, smiled, and maintained his stand that
it is not permissible. The convention ended on this decision. The information dished out to us is completely in contrast to what transpired there! Even if this convention wasn’t surrounded with so many question marks around it, it is in any case not a fatwa, but merely the opinions of those mentioned, who are not even Muftis!
According to information we have, one such Aalim told the Ulama of the Jamiat that leave
the muftis alone, it is a political need of the time! If this is true, it is a very serious statement! If one were to spell out these words it would spell out as, ‘Leave the Shariah, inter alia, leave Quran and Hadith and look at the political needs of the time!
End.

Allamah Binnori رحمه الله تعالى has written about Sir Syeds deviation. It is necessary to highlight his deviations.
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#70 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2022 08:31
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Deoband ki doing khidmath of Aligarh and vice versa. Accepted and lets move on.

Those were the days when our deobandi ulema in their khutba used to declare some one faasiq and faajir, british agent for one who admitted his kids in english schools. Used to call for boycott of their families.

And our english graduates used to call ulema "one who doesn't fit in modern society". "The aalim must amend deen".

Alhamdulillah that is from past and history.
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#71 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2022 08:49
There is a situation.

Those who are mukhlis, pious, don't serve the society fearing riya and they prefer to remain anonymous .

One Who serves the society wants publicity.

The second option benefits the society. The first option, the result is zero.


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#72 [Permalink] Posted on 17th January 2022 15:57
A Facebook Post

(To be discussed later)
Quote:
फ्रांसिस बेकन ने जब मिथकों के खिलाफ झंडा बुलंद किया तो घोषणा की थी कि साइंस इंसानियत को भविष्य में ले जाएगा।
इस बात को कोपरनिकस, गेलिलियो और खास तौर से न्यूटन ने गंभीरता से लिया।
इसके बाद पश्चिम ने विज्ञान पैदा किया।
बाद में समाजशास्त्र और एंथ्रोपोलॉजी ने मिथकों को नए ढंग से पढ़ना समझना शुरू किया और "मिथकों का विज्ञान" खोज निकाला।
इधर भारत मे न बेकन जन्मे न न्यूटन जन्मे।
नतीजा ये कि हम साइंस पैदा नहीं कर सके।
अब पश्चिमी साइंस हमने उधार तो ले लिया लेकिन उस साइंस को साइंटिफिक ढंग से इस्तेमाल करने की बुद्धि विकसित नहीं कर पाए।
पश्चिम ने जिस तरह "साइंस" और "साइंस ऑफ मिथ" पैदा किया भारत ने साइंस की नसबंदी करते हुए "मिथ ऑफ साइंस" पैदा किया। आज हम इसी दौर में जी रहे हैं।
केन विलबर्स ने ठीक ही लिखा है, जिन समाजों ने विज्ञान और लोकतन्त्र के जन्म की प्रसव पीड़ा खुद नहीं झेली उन्हें उधार में मिले विज्ञान और लोकतन्त्र की न तो समझ है न तमीज है।
वे विज्ञान और लोकतंत्र को भी झाड़ फूंक की तरह ही इस्तेमाल करते हैं।
- संजय श्रमण


Google Translation

When Francis Bacon raised the flag against myths, he declared that science would take humanity into the future.
This was taken seriously by Copernicus, Galileo and especially Newton.
After this the West produced science.
Later sociology and anthropology began to understand the reading of myths in a new way and discovered the "science of myths".
Here in India neither Bacon was born nor Newton was born.
The result is that we could not produce science.
Now we have borrowed western science but could not develop the intelligence to use that science scientifically.
The way the West produced "Science" and "Science of Myth", India created "Myth of Science" by sterilizing science. Today we are living in this era.
Ken Wilbers has rightly written, "Societies that have not themselves suffered the labor of the birth of science and democracy have neither the understanding nor the wisdom of borrowed science and democracy."
They also use science and democracy as a fluke.
- Sanjay Shraman
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#73 [Permalink] Posted on 17th January 2022 16:16
mSiddiqui wrote:
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Quote:
Generally speaking associating with a group with Baatil views for the sake of IT infrastructure would be considered a very feeble argument.
The Deen suffices a Mumin.

When we are talking whether digital photography is Halal or Haram we are talking Deen.
Quote:
(Regarding the ruling of Digital Photography)
Excrept:
At that point, Hazrat Maulana Asad Madani RA commented that people are becoming murtad and you are still discussing whether it is permissible or not. Mufti Saeed Sahib looked at him, smiled, and maintained his stand that
it is not permissible. The convention ended on this decision. The information dished out to us is completely in contrast to what transpired there! Even if this convention wasn’t surrounded with so many question marks around it, it is in any case not a fatwa, but merely the opinions of those mentioned, who are not even Muftis!
According to information we have, one such Aalim told the Ulama of the Jamiat that leave
the muftis alone, it is a political need of the time! If this is true, it is a very serious statement! If one were to spell out these words it would spell out as, ‘Leave the Shariah, inter alia, leave Quran and Hadith and look at the political needs of the time!
End.

When a person makes a painting of living beings, particularly humans, then there is this doubt that he is competing with Allah SWT.
Photography, including video, is like looking in the mirror. In Cuttack, Odisha, there is some thing called Rasool (SAW) Qadam - foot print of Rasoolallah SAW. I have not heard of anyone comparing it with idol worship. If taking a foot print on mud is not like painting then photography should also be given at least this much leverage that we can have our pic on our passport.
If we do that then we are not pushing Qur'an and Hadith to a side.

But I completely surrender to what Muftis say.
Quote:

Allamah Binnori رحمه الله تعالى has written about Sir Syed's deviation. It is necessary to highlight his deviations.

I suppose many others have done that.
In Uloom-ul-Qur'an Mufti Muhammed Taqi Usmani Sahab DB did the same.
Those who want can continue to discuss Sir Syed's views but the fact remains that when it came to Islamic instructions at Aligarh Sir Syed deferred to Hazrat Maulana Qasim Nanotwi RA who in turn sent his grand son for the same. Sir Syed wrote an obituary of Hazrat maulana Qasim Nanotwi RA that is simply glorious and Maulana Aseer Idrawi quoted it full in his biography of Hazrat Nanotwi RA.

I do not know how much more evidence and discussion is needed to settle the issue.

Long back Ulama stopped slapping Kufr Fatwa on people of modern education but I still continue to see comments like 'Syed Syed's deviations must be point out'.

I can not quote here the insults I hear about Maulanas in Aligarh.

At several times I have been called a Maulawi just because I have a beard. And believed me it was not complementary.
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#74 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2022 06:00
I was born in a family that was either already Deobandi or in a process to become one.

Then I had the modern education including at Aligarh.

Then I needed Islam because of very difficult personal circumstances.

After analysing various options Deoband version was the natural choice.

And I also realized that Deoband version is very demanding - you have to be very respectful to the Maulanas.

I have been trying to do that - to be respectful to Maulanas.

In fact Hazrat Thawi RA said that the basis of Deen is respect and honour of the Elders.

But the modern education has a very critical attitude towards authority.

For example I have hardly any respect for Barelwi Sufis.

Similarly when I came to know that Maulana Fazlur Rahman of Jamaiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam of Pakistan regularly receives funds from CIA it was very heart breaking. From that time onward I shall never be able to respect him.

Then came the episode of Maulana Saad using the Mewati muscle power to assert his claim as the head of the Tablighi Jama-at I was left with a very bad taste in my mouth.

Before that came the issue of Maulana Salman Husaini Nadwi Sahab accusing Kaleem Siddiqui Sahab of not completing his Dars-e-Nizami, not being a Khlaifa of Ali Miyan RA and Maulana Muhammed Ahmed Pratapgarhi RA and not having 450 Madarsas I smelt rat. I think all of these accusations are true. But I cleared my heart about Kaleem Siddiqui Sahab. He is a Dayi and he speaks like best Maualanas and he writes better than most of them.

Late engineer Ahmed Salim Pirzada suspected that Maulana Salman Husaini Nadwi must be making money for giving political support to political parties. I do not know. And may be he is jealous of Kaleem Siddiqui for latter receiving Gulf funds. Yet I do not feel any resentment towards him.

I do not feel any resentment towards engineer turned Maulawi Pir Zulfiqar Ahmed Naqshbandi Sahab because at some point he might have thought it to be permissible to shake hands with Mureedaas.

Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Hind's uncle-nephew duo, Arshad and Mehmood Madanis, do a lot of charity and social work like providing houses and relief to riot victims as well as legal support to wrongly accused Muslims.

This needs money and this money must be coming from somewhere. They do not give accounts to us, the public, and I am not after them to disclose their income.

But I hate it when they make us Indian Muslims slaves of so called secular Lib-Dem parties.

And I also dislike when Dr Zakir Naik and Dr Israr Ahmed are hated by our Deeni establishment.
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#75 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2022 07:26
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I read this in one book, I think this was advice by Mufti Shafee Sahib RA to his son Mufti Taqi Usmani sab DB.
"When you accuse some one of irregularities or any other sin, you must be ready to prove it in shariah court before a Qazi, backed with legal proofs. If you can't do that, be silent, (don't spoil your aakhirath)"

And we know how dented is our aakhirath, today, we are left with just Imaan without any Aamaal. So the penalty will be, it be blow on Imaan itself.
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