How to Negotiate with Iran?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2018 08:27

Shiaism is a reality and it is not going to disappear and evaporate into thin air.

The most robust manifestation of that ideology is the state of Iran.

It is not that Iran has implications for Saudi Arabia only. But even if that was the case Iran would be serious matter for the Ummah to consider.

Let us do that in this thread.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2018 08:30

Ehsan Shariati on His father's Views

Shariati’s 'return to self' rejection of sectarianism, ethnocentrism

The role of Dr. Ali Shariati, in employing new human sciences (especially history and sociology), for a scientific and realistic understanding of the national and religious culture of Iran and Islam, was a sobering experience and this endeavor is still ongoing and current.

The work of Shariati, following the foundation of this pathway by Jamal al-Din al-Afghani (and the philosophical depth of Iqbal of Lahore), had two profound effects. It managed to posit the "reconstruction" of religious thought in the Islamic world, thanks to modern human sciences, and prepare a cultural and ideological resistance to the era of "ideologies and revolutions" (anti-imperialist, anti-despotic and anti-capitalist). It also created among the younger generation awareness of and hope for a new reflection on the basis of the autochthonous culture. The widespread impact of the Shariatian discourse, recognized by his supporters as well as by his critics, testifies to his success and enthusiastic reception.

However, since the time of Shariati until today, we have witnessed a paradigm shift, a change in “episteme” in the humanities. Progressing from at first the transformation of the positivist and scientistic model (explaining the ‘causes’ of the facts), to later the hermeneutic understanding and phenomenological description (understanding the ‘meaning’ of events), promoted the "Science" of humanities at an unmatched level. With the entry of philosophy and science in the era of the "posts" (postmodern, post-metaphysical, post-industrial society, etc ...), and the "ends" (end of history, of man, of ideologies, etc ...), the concepts of man as an object of humanities research, as well as "objectivity" and scientific impartiality, are now challenged.

"The future" of the humanities is profoundly linked to the redefinition of "man's humanity" and to the "objectivity of (this) object" (human). In each of these sciences, it is central to explore a humanity in search of a superior dignity to that promised yesterday by ideologies and an objectivity in the phenomenological sense of to go “back to the 'things themselves'”(Husserl), and not the reification of human affairs as a natural material and “object” of study.

Future humanities will have to have an answer for the crisis of meaning in our time and of the worthy style of life of man on earth, respecting the characteristics of each country and each culture. Otherwise, it will be condemned to death, and become merely a tool in the service of great powers that determine the fate of the world: the support base of technical sales companies, or political-military powers, or apologist justifier of propaganda for new "crusades" and the "clash of civilizations".

Shariati was a committed intellectual who wanted to learn "human sciences" for its role in social emancipation and human salvation. After his university period, he expanded his perspective outside of the academy, to develop a "critical theory" alive in society, particularly in a religious society. His intellectual legacy had a wide impact, subject to conflicting interpretations.

After Shariati, there arose in Iran and in the Islamic world the phenomenon of so-called "fundamentalism". Its impact differed in Iran, however, for two reasons: Iran experienced the civil development of "religious modernity", as well as the achievements of a range of trends from "traditionalist" to "fundamentalist" at governmental and community levels. As a result, Iran is now in a way "vaccinated" against the deadly scourge of extremism. And given that we are regarded as the pioneer of a (tinted color) Islamic revolution, our experience may be considered by other Muslim nations as a sort of social laboratory.

The transversal approach of Shariati on "interfaith rapprochement" manifested by such phrases as "Sunni prophetic" equal to "Shia Alawite" against "Sunni Umayyad" and "Shia Safavid," or the triangle of Sartre, Marx, and Bergson (or Pascal) in the West, or Buddha, Mazdak, Hallaj in the East, as equivalent of Imam Ali, etc., have ground down the regressions and ethno-religious conflicts and this underlies the successful receipt of the work of Shariati in different Muslim countries.

In analyzing the draft of Shariati’s thought, which consists of "rebirth" of national culture and religious "Reformation", an "interdisciplinary" approach is recognizable in:

the exploration of the "continent of history" (the item Shariati had introduced into the field of Islamic theological studies) ;
the Marx-Weber interaction between sociological infrastructural base and cultural and ideological superstructures ;
serious attention to issues of political economy and the development of a kind of scientific Marxology ;
the psychological approach and equilibrium established between the psychoanalysis of Freud and that of Jung, throughout Shariati’s work, especially in the writings called Kaviriyât (Desert) ;
the recognition of a mission for art by, for example, examining recent trends in the art world, and bringing in the field of "liberation theology" in Islam and Iran;
And generally, in the field of philosophy, the observation of the famous "linguistic turn" of the twentieth century, and the lessons of hermeneutics and phenomenology, philosophy of existence, following Kierkegaard and his posterity, in the context of continental philosophy, including the study of the history of ideas by his "comparative methodology", which our generation has learned first from Shariati.

However, the originality of Shariati lies in his slogan "return to the self", which means authentic, an invitation to awareness, self-reflection, and the deconstructed recovery of tradition and autochtonous cultural heritage, national and religious. The meaning of this return is by no means a call to ethnic or religious identitarianism, but rather the preparation of conditions enabling an equal dialogue with the Other, in this case, with the West, as a sort of mirror: Me found in the eyes of others.

Shariati examined the history of civilizations, religions, Islam, and Iran, with a look from below, so to speak. He integrated marginalized texts and reread the tragic story of the underprivileged and the comedy of the powerful. In denouncing the "tripartite ideology" (in the words of Georges Dumézil), and the dominant classes--politically, economically, and culturally--and mystification (antique and new), Shariati opened the way for a new historical understanding in "postcolonial studies", similar to the work of Fanon, Said, etc.

To criticize and clarify Shariati’s message, we need to continue to develop the methods of human sciences with universal scientific standards.

Understanding the emancipatory trilogy of “liberty, Justice and mysticism”, in direct contrast to the dominating triangle of “exploitation (zar), oppression (zoor), and mystification (tazwir)”, according to the latest text of Shariati, requires learning widely. For example, new philosophy and political sciences in their latest developments, from reading the classics such as A. Tocqueville and B. Constant up to H. Arent and Leo Strauss; studying the thought of social democratic movements from astro-socialism and anarcho-syndicalism, libertarian socialism, to the current movement of "alternative globalization"; and finally, the knowledge of the Existenzphilosophy and the Oriental (and Islamic and Iranian) wisdoms and mystical spirituality.

Reviewing and evaluating the legacy of Dr. Shariati helps to improve its quality, to lift its ambiguities and resolve problems of this path of thought. Thus, we expect holding seminars like this to illustrate the current situation and the future of the humanities in Iran, to contribute to the theoretical and practical implications of this school of thought and Shariati’s contribution to the future of these sciences, particularly in the context of our culture or civilization.

Through fostering freedom of expression, such as the critical approach of the researchers present at this meeting, we expect to see a new flowering of ideas and a leap forward in research, and a new contribution to the future of the humanities in our countries.

Source : MehrNews

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2018 09:00

saudis and munafiq/murtad regimes are far more off a concern to islam than rawaafidh. once stupid sunnis get their act together the shia menace will sort itself out.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 15th November 2018 13:56

Ali Shariati,s appeal to the youth in Iran was used by clerics to their advantage and the moment the 'revolution’ succeeded,they started distancing themselves from him and his message...

Khomeini was a hardcore Shia extremist , there was no room for intellectual discourse and sophisticated philosophies in his vision for Iran.Those of us who have read his original books may testify that he left no space for compromise between Sunni and Shia.I don't want to mention his views on Qur'an and Sahaba as many will find it nauseating...

So,if Iran of today disowns Khomeini and his beliefs,then it may be possible for us to “negotiate”,otherwise we can always hold "talks" for sort of peaceful 'coexistence'...that is about all we can hope for,we do that even with Israel...

It is not that I feel happy about it.We want them to come back to the pre- Khomeini era before we can negotiate. The differences were present between the two of us even then, but generally the limits of a decent argument was not crossed and the majority of Shia were moderates.Khomeini not only increased the gulf between Sunni and Shia,he gave Shia a revolutionary agenda and a road map for political and military domination of Islamic lands. He used the slogan of "handing over the flag to Mahdi" for the revival of the lost glory of the Persian empire.....and the annihilation of those responsible for its destruction : The Arabs !

So Maripat,I do recognise your good intent...but sadly I don't know how we can bring them back to the fold :(

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd January 2020 13:53

02JAN2020: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50979463

I guess time for negotiations are over?

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd January 2020 14:49

How to Negotiate with Iran?

What does Trump want?

Trump Tweeted "Iran never won a war, but never lost a negotiation!"

He's telling them to sit back and fear him

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd January 2020 15:19

Iran wont take this lying down. This will trigger off something huge. Either full scale war in region or maybe an unlikely alliance between sunni and Shia to get rid of America but unlikely as shias have oppressed sunnis especially this qasim guy plus Saudis are loyal to USA than they are to Allah

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mkdon101

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd January 2020 15:35

mkdon101 wrote:

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Saudi Arabia & UAE are loyal to America so no chance of an official Sunni-Shia unity of any kind.

Iran is a sanctioned, 3rd rate military power which Americans can easily crush. There are some variables which we need to consider:

America was ground down in Vietnam due to Chinese/Russian support. Will China/Russia flock to support and supply weapons to Iran to counter America and to what extent?
To what extent does Iran activate its Proxies to damage America? For 1200+ years Shias have done nothing but fight deceptively so that is the only way they know.
Will the (Sunni) Jihadees ally themselves with their arch-rival Shias to fight America (common enemy)?
What will be the economic impact on Europe due to oil supply disruption? America is pretty much immune to Middle East Oil
IF America commits ground troops to Iran then considering the population, terrain, topology of Iran it will be a disaster.

Its only scenario 3 which leads to catastrophic impact

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd January 2020 15:54

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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I can't see groups like Is and Al qaedah or even taliban allying with the shiah. Most likely iran will attack US interests in area.

Out of curiosity apart from Russia and China is there any country that can give America a good run for its money n win a fight. Obviously I'm not talking about Allah's devine help but just in a worldly sense.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd January 2020 16:26

mkdon101 wrote:

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No. Russia & China will only provide Arms if it benefits them, they won't fight the fight.

P.S: Added point 5 which I forgot in my post.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd January 2020 19:16

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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I fear number 3 happening. We have seen many dubious groups pop up.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd January 2020 21:27

Today's strike proves that the international community had the ability to stop the suffering of the Syrian people if they wanted to do so.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 4th January 2020 01:37

Brother ALIF made very good points. Khomeini's revolution has taken the Shias(at least those in Iran and probably Pakistan too) so far that it is very very unlikely for them to reverse. I am aware of the filth they utter about the Sahaba رضي الله عنهم and cannot imagine unity with them.I'm sure most people who hold love and reverence of Sahaba رضي الله عنهم in their hearts would agree.Some of us might say that a strategic alliance could be made but it should be kept in mind that the hatred the Shia hold for the Sunnis especially the Deobandi and Salafi groups, is quite intense.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 4th January 2020 01:49

Let Iran gives more weapons to Taliban in Afghanistan

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 4th January 2020 02:22

IRAN: JUGULAR OPTION

Iran has ONLY one chance to force WWIII. It is to attack the Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE & Bahrain. Then Iran needs to mine and shut down the Straits of Hormuz

Result?

Oil will shoot up to over $200 a barrel, crippling world economy. It will take very little effort from Iran to do so.

Why Iran will not do this?

Russian and China are the only Iranian allies and it will break the back of their economies. America is mostly immune from this tactic (now) due to Shale Oil.

However...

If Iran does this, the economic threats of EU, China, India and every other economy disappear from America.

America can hit hard and carpet bomb Iran while Iran cannot hit mainland America. The global world will be very angry at Iran and will cooperate with America.

Iran, genuinly has no other choice if military action is imposed on it

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How to Negotiate with Iran?

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02JAN2020: Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike

IRAN: JUGULAR OPTION