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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 14:56

Time and again this question of Hazrat Worship come up in our discussion here and this question has been haunting us from Sunni Forum days.


I suppose we should have a clear view on this question so that we can either solve this issue once and for all or move on to more manageable issues in case the problem is more difficult than our collective strength.


Here I go.


To begin with the phrase is excessively strong. we are responsible only for the actions of our people - the people who take their Deen from Deoband.


Thus we need not talk about the Barelwis here nor the Salafis.


But why talk about Salafis who simply do not have Hazrats? Well let me assure you that if we take the example of Jama-at-e-Islami branch of the Salafi type category of people then it so happens that in spite of their claim and assertion to be reasonable they are completely rigid about. No criticism of Maulana Maududi is the dictum.


But As I said it is not our problem.


Then let us come to our own people. Every single Shaikh has got every one of his disciples firmly under his control and will not make them available for us.


What is more - if you muster those Muslims that are not in the fold of any of the Masha-ikh and end up with some positive result then every single Shaikh will lay claim upon your resources.


That is life.


Of course if you commit a single mistake not a single Shaikh will forgive you. Take the experience of Pir Zulfiqar Ahmed Naqshbandi recently.


Perhaps this is not a good example to cite because some of the reported views of Pir Sahab are not really in consonance with conservative interpretation of Shariah. But let us remember that Mufti Taqi Usmani Sahab's Fatwah does not mention Pir Sahab explicitly.

To come back to our main point - we can not expect any help or co-operation from the Hazrat Sector, the Sufi Sector about the issues, the worldly issues, that the Ummah faces today.


And this is sad because we are not talking about people indulging in worldly attractions - we are talking about the issues that have become very crucial for the future of Ummah. In India we are facing the historical lowest point. Globally too whether we like it or not the situation of Ummah was never worse.


Now I got to take the diversion. So why the global situation for Ummah is the worst today? Because there are only few such critical times in history. The Crusades, Fitnah of the Tatars, Ouster of Muslims from Spain, Colonialism and the present situation.


Crusades we dealt with most effectively. I think that was the most glorious phase of Ummah after Khulafa-e-Rashideen.


Tatars, the Mongols, nearly finished off Islam but hey that was the region from central Asia to the Gulf only. India under the Mamluke dynasty was dealing with the barbarians very effectively and when they finally got an advantage in India they were already Muslims. In Egypt it is clear that Baibers indeed gave them the taste of their own medicine.

Spain certainly was a big loss that included our empire of science and our foot hold in Europe. But then it was again the loss of a region that was big but not vast. Loss of india in 1857 was much bigger loss.


Colonialism too is a mind boggling event for any self respecting Muslim but let us not forget that we had already started throwing away the yolk of colonialism when it has not taken even its first course.


So what makes the current problem the worst in the history of Ummah? well RSS in India still thinks that they have a good chance of neutralizing Islam once and for all. Plus the west is in frenzy and has been doing enormous amount of damage in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Palestine. Honestly speaking the Ummah never had the task of this monumental proportions in her history.


Digression over.


So here we are. We have before us a worldly task that impinges upon the future of Ummah and the Hazrat Sector is not available to us for any help.


Why do we look up to this sector? Ans : Because this Sector is among few functioning sectors of Ummah. simple. So naturally our hopes will get arisen from them.


The other functional sector is the Madaris and yet another is the Tabligi Jama-at. How much of help we shall get from them? Nothing, cipher, zero, zilch, naught.


But this thread is about Hazrat Worship.and from that Sector we are going to get no help when it comes to the revival of the fortunes of the Ummah.


Here I feel like using the metaphor from John Milton in which he inscribes the motto in the gate of the hell that all those who enter it leave all hopes out side. I shall not use that metaphor for Mr Milton was pathologically Islamophobic and his master piece, master piece for the west, was inspired by his hatred for us. But I can assure you that the Sufi sector will render only that much help to you in your task as I have said above - nil.


I just gave you the bad news.


How bad is that? Not much bad. And that will be surprising. But i would like to stand my ground.


Why is that not so bad? For that I have got a very good argument. The people who are in the folds of the Sufis are not very capable in matters in which we need their help. Period.


So let us focus upon those who are not already committed elsewhere. Tablighi-Jama-at people are out, Madaris people are out, Sufis are out.


And my brothers and sisters it leaves for still the most of the Ummah. Believe me.


In this regard I like Kaleem Siddiqui Sahab's attitude.  I told him about a distant cousin of mine who had put enormous amount of efforts in Dawah and who is far superior to Kaleem sahab (though I did not say this to him) at academic level but now he, my distant cousin, is simply immersed in Tabligh and not ready at all to go for Dawah. Kaleem Sahab told me that we should focus upon those people who are not associated with any other organized work. let the people who are busy in other branches of Deen do their work and try to recruit the new people.


So guys can we now turn our attention from Hazrats and Hazrat Worshipppers, if I might use the  inaccurate phrase to describe the situation, and focus upon more fertile avenues and create our own support base.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 19:16
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Maripat,Hazrat ‘worship’ is an exaggerated term used for ‘obedience’ to one,s Shaikh or teacher.In Islamic culture we do love and respect our elders and teachers Nothing wrong in it as long as it remains within limits...

A Momin ‘worships’ only Allah swt.

Tasawwuf is simply a training to instil “Ikhlas” into all our affairs, may that be politics,jihad,Tabligh, teaching etc. Once the necessary degree of Ikhlas is achieved one can go back to the respective field of work one likes most. Only few would remain “trainer” sufis forever,all the rest assimilate in other fields of work as required. You may not need Sufi’s but Sufi’s do keep supplying you with new recruits in every sphere of life,and they don’t even announce it...

We must target those youngsters studying secular subjects in schools, colleges and universities. Those are ‘our own’ and once trained can prove a great asset.I know of a wonderful experience in Peshawar university where one Sufi professor ‘Moulana Ashraf khan Sulemani ra’ single handedly changed the whole atmosphere of the university. Despite suffering from multiple diseases (like muscular dystrophy due to which he could not even move around without help) he would visit each and every department and each and every hostel to contact students, telling them : “ You are the soldiers of SYEDENA RASOLLULLAH pbuh”... “we can not leave you at the mercy of the west... come and standup for the protection of the din of Muhammad pbuh”... and they did.

All we need is sincere efforts on our youth, we can not discard them simply because they are not madrasa students. We can still work on them just like a ‘classical Hazrat’ did in Peshawar with great results.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 19:37
stop making excuses. this is what shia and brealwis say when they are accused of worshipping their pirs and imams. we all know what is meant by hazrat worshipping. when certain deo 'personalities' can do NO wrong and are always and everytime right and anyone who differs who calls them it is hounded. there is no issue in loving ones teacher and shaykh or even sticking to his opinion only but not objecting to others who follow a different one. a prime example of this is hazrat masheehullah رضي الله عنه love and obedience to his shaykh maulana thanvi رضي الله عنه. as for as ml masheehullah was concerned hazrat was enough for him and actually unlike fake followers of todays celeb pirs followed in all his footsteps and always went with his opinion but never objected to anyone who followed another akaabir.

if one really wants to play the he is my shaykh game and follow him then do it properly by following all aspects. it reminds me of jaahils who will go around and do something like publicly yelling or reprimanding someone in public and say oh but umar رضي الله عنه used to do it. i mean seriosuly is that all we reduced umar رضي الله عنه to? a thug who went a round hitting people? umar رضي الله عنه was also amongs the most humble and just, prayed tahajjud, gave sadaqa in large amounts. if you really see yourself as a follower of umar then follow him in all he did ( not that we can ever each even 1% of what he did) but you get my point
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 19:47
linked also to this topic is how we treat non deo scholars. today as we speak dr tariq ramadan is suffering one of the worse injustices in modern times. prison for alleged misconduct by a murtadah and has been exposed as a liar. even non muslims are speaking out but as he is not a deo were are our lot? they made so much noise jumping up and down like monkies when one of their hazrat was simply question at airport. this is hazrat worshipping. yet we hear all this lovey dovey sermons about us being 1 ummah. more like deo ummah
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 20:53
mkdon101 wrote:
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 20:56

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You are confusing "Respect, Honour and Due Deference” to Hazrat Worship. Everything in quotation is part of Islam and Sunnah and all Muslims should be accorded the dignity and Ulama (and Mashaykh) should be accorded it to the highest degree. Your example does not reflect “Hazrat Worship” at all.

Hazrat Worship is a Persian export to Islam and now an Indian menace to the Ummah. It means exactly what it says i.e. worshipping your Shaykh and taking him as a deity and taking everything he says to be revelation which is not Islam.

The impact of Hazrat Worship is colossal on the laymen but it also elevates the Nafs of the Shaykh above Mount Everest when he begins to think of himself as a divinely guided prophet who is an expert on everything and must issue a judgement on everything from Sulook to Fiqh to cars to houses to financial investment to relationships to potential spousal proposals and everything else.
Hazrat can be DEAD WRONG according to Shariah and his practise in direct contravention to Islam and its principles and YET NOBODY dare oppose or raise objections to it.

Knowing that your Shaykh is getting love-letters in a Hadeeth Kitaab with Darul-uloom student and defending his actions is a case of "Hazrat Worship". Knowing that your Shaykh is promoting Shirk Dhikr openly and defending his actions is a case of "Hazrat Worship".

The term “Hazrat Worhsip” is designed to shock people into considering, thinking, evaluating their actions.

Shaykh's Mushwara vs Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam):

In our time, the Mushwara of a Shaykh has become binding and a revelation, see this Hadeeth which categorically destroys this argument.

Here is a slave girl rejecting the Msuhwara of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and this is I-S-L-A-M vs “Hazrat Worship". Look how wise is the slave girl and how she distinguishes the matter! 

Ibn `Abbas (RA) said: "Barirah's husband was a slave, who was known as Mughith. I can almost see him, running after her and crying, with tears running down onto his beard. The Prophet (PBUH) said to `Abbas, `O `Abbas, do you not find it strange, how much Mugith loves Barirah, and how much Barirah hates Mughith?' The Prophet (PBUH) said (to Barirah), `Why do you not go back to him?' She said, `O Messenger of Allah, are you commanding me to do so?' He said, `I am merely trying to intervene on his behalf.' She said, `I have no need of him.'"


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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2018 11:30
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Excuse for what ? You think I will make excuses for wrong doers ? If “Hazrat worship” really exists as Muad khan puts it(and he is usually right in such things,because he does his research well before writing), I am the first one to stand against it. I may not be as much aware of its gravity as you are,because it is almost non existent where I live....

There can be no excuse where the basics of din are challenged. Nothing is as precious as this true message of Allah which reached us through authentic,reliable and connected sources. There are efforts of Anmbiya,Ikhlas of siddiqeen and the blood of shuhada behind it.Will we make excuses for a few so called ‘mystics’ to corrupt our din for us ?

But yes, I do differentiate between true sufis and those using their title. True sufis have been on the forefront of any effort for the well being of Ummah, they were fighters,reformers,teachers, preachers and a source of guidance for this Ummah. They did not consider themselves superior even to animals leave alone calling themselves HAZRAT and demanding worship from the slaves of Allah...


‎مَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَن يُؤْتِيَهُ اللَّهُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحُكْمَ وَالنُّبُوَّةَ ثُمَّ يَقُولَ لِلنَّاسِ كُونُوا عِبَادًا لِّي مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَلَٰكِن كُونُوا رَبَّانِيِّينَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تُعَلِّمُونَ الْكِتَابَ وَبِمَا كُنتُمْ تَدْرُسُونَ (79) آل عمران

“It is not conceivable that a human being unto whom God had granted revelation, and sound judgment, and prophethood, should thereafter have said unto people, "Worship me beside God"; but rather [did he exhort them], "Become men of God by spreading the knowledge of the divine writ, and by your own deep study [thereof]."

If it is true for the prophets ( peace be upon them) then it is much more applied to genuine or fake sufis...

So no room for Hazrat Worship in islam.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2018 11:57

ALIF wrote:
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Do you think that "Hazrat Worship" means that a Shaykh is sitting there and Mureeds are prostrating to him i.e. actually worshipping him?

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2018 12:20
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No sir, I don’t think it is as simple..

It may mean that one,s Shaikh or teacher is infallible, that his word is final, that those who challenge him are bad people or are out right wrong even without considering their point of view etc

When Quran challenged the Jews :
اتَّخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ أَرْبَابًا مِّن دُونِ اللَّه
(They take their rabbis and monks as lords besides Allah). One Sahabi who had embraced Islam from being a Jew first,asked the prophet pbuh : “We did not worship our Rahban ?” The prophet pbuh replied : “ Did you not take as halal what they declared halal and take as haram what they declared haram ?” (i.e independent of the orders of Allah)
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2018 16:36
We have to do two things and we must abstain from two. Besides this there is one more action. Hadrat Hakīm al-Ummat Thānwī rahimahullāh said, “To be successful, there is one more action which is like a condition. It is ittilā‛ and ittibā‛.”

Itt ilā‛ and ittibā‛ is to relate your spiritual condition to your spiritual mentor and to practise on his guidance with conviction and compliance.

*My brothers! If we keep a relationship of ittilā‛ and ittibā with our spiritual mentor, we make a lot of dhikr, are particular about keeping pious company and in addition to that we abstain from sin and futilities then Allāh willing, we will be blessed with constant obedience. We will be blessed with the pleasure of Allāh and we will attain Allāh. Thereafter the entire world will be at our feet.*


HADRAT MAULĀNĀ MUHAMMAD SALĪM DHORĀT SĀHIB
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 12:50

We wouldn have Hadhrat worship in our midst if the "Hadhrat" himself didn stop all what that the mureed offers to him.. If the Hadhrat thinks that this person is pressing my legs to get ajr, so let him continue, he is indirectly promoting himself to a station that his deeds are accepted and he is an Allah wala and thus by a mureed pressing my leg, he will be rewarded and would make me happy.. True Allah wala would never promote such behaviour and would focus on rectification of his students rather then getting favors from him. If he was concerned for them and if he wants to be happy with his students then he should be happy that he pressed his parents legs who in turn made dua for him, he abstained from a sin which he desired for long.. This is true happiness of a shaykh and not the mureed building his Khanqah or Madrasah with his money or travelling with him being in his Kidmat.. A true Hadhrat never lets anyone press his legs, asks anyone for money and even if it comes without him asking, he's diligent on the sources of the money and he's not like today's Hadhrat who accept whatever comes In or in some cases, make "Elaan" too... the layman are layman, they will do exactly that but a shaykh is intelligent and knows. Most Hadhrats of today are only given ijazat due to a good opinion of him from his shaykh and in 99% circumstances is a scholar, read some books on Tassawuf who quotes some stories verbatim and does some minimum required mamulat and as never thread the nafs braking path from his Shaykh due to his own Shaykh overlooking it or he not capable of taking him on the path.. What happens is what we see now.. 

True Hadhrats are a handful these days and u will not hear, see or find them although they live among us. They are more so branded as heretics from their own famous peers and scholars and call him so and so or appear to be regular layman.. 

The line of Tassawuf is not selected by creation but selected by the Creator for a saalik. Your choice of a shaykh and having some munasabah is only limited to duniyawi benefits.. He has no clue what munasabah means and only keeps it to how he speaks and treats people.. He doesn like to be told off or be shown his weakness or being criticised.. 

But a true saalik doesn go after shaykh for anything of duniya but is sought after.. He is not chasing but is chased after.. These saalik are concerned of their day to day affairs and are always in most cases concerned with their connection not breaking of with Allah.. Follow such people if they let u too(most often they will run away from you), u will gain immense benefit.. These saaliks in most cases are directed to the Haqq awliya by Allah himself and not by his liking or jazba..

So if u are someone whose only looking to have some connection with a shaykh so u can be advised, shown the path and become a sufi then u've missed the plot.. Make dua for being pious and remember death often, if Allah as willed for you to be mureed of a shaykh then this will not miss you.. You might be acquainted with some Tassawuf but this acquaintance is what pleases ur nafs.. True Tassawuf and the affairs of a saalik always go against his nafs and there are shaykhs of this calibre alive to guide you.. Its all YOU .. Its of no use to speak of hidden or unhidden, like whats said above, your sought after and not the other way around.. 

Your deeds, fikr of your imaan and for people and Raising the banner of Allah is what makes you sought after.. If ur not doing any of these already then stop fooling urself to be a Sufi and wasting time..

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 13:07
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Can we please just discuss the last paragraph and leave the tahmeed e tulaani out of discussion
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 13:29
Also, we need to stop elevating these Hadhrats for their Ijazat from a very famous Haqq shaykh.. A shaykh can only be assessed on the parameters of whats outlined of a Kaamil shaykh.. If he's on borderline or was assessed years ago, they need to be assessed again and again and if they have no qualities of a Kaamil shaykh or even of a regular Muslim(like praying salaah with jamaat in the masjid) he should never be followed..

We should realise that we get such so called shaykhs, leaders of a country, Ulama e-soo based on our own deeds.. Till we dont change our deeds, nothing is going to change for the better in our lives. Based on our double standard deeds which is filled with Nifaq and only for show in most cases and other then for Allah, what makes u think u will be guided to Haqq?

Sincerity goes a long way but we all know we can have a sincere fool as well.. It all comes back to your intentions, if they are not for the sake of Allah and if it's for ur nafs, like chasing shaykhs who have the least no in chain to our beloved Rasoolullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam or getting khilafat, these are all ghayr maqsood and is all nafs, then this ur path of destruction.. You will reap what you intend, so intentions in every matter should be purely for Allah and he should be self aware at all times.. This self awareness is by abstaining from sins and paying extra emphasis on prayers prayed with its due rights.. When prayed with its due rights, as Allah says in the Quran; Verily, the Salah prevents from Al-Fahsha’ (immoral sins) and Al-Munkar (evil deeds) and the remembering (praising) of Allah is greater indeed. And Allah knows what you do."

If you cant keep away from your sins then your prayers are not right.. There is no other way to it.. Focus on prayers, this is the stepping stone for all goodness.. Your research, website portals filled with khair for Ummah are of no relevance(some Islamic websites are maintained by fasiqs and those who don't pray, so no way of guaging ur piety from this) if your prayers are not right..
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 13:48

Genuine question to all the Sufiya-e-Kiraam on this forum. Was Tasawuff as we see today practised by Sahaba (RA), Taba'een (RA) etc, if so can you please give me some examples?

  1. Did the Sahaba (RA) perform Bay't on the hands of a few Akabir Sahaba (RA)?
  2. Were their regular Majalis of Dhikr?
  3. Did the Sahaba (RA) revere and honour their Shaykh like standing up, respecting them, opening doors for them, not eating until they eat, wearing the same Topi and Kurta as their Shaykh?

Can I get some examples for these please? Even Tab'aeen and Taba'Tabeen.

Harith al-Muhasibi [781-857]was one one of the earliest Sufi writers whose book I have read:

www.azharacademy.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1748

The Sufi'ism in the book resembles nothing like what we have today at all.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 13:59
Only Dr76 can answer such questions :)
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