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Crescent Moon Visibility Maps?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 30th May 2017 16:58
salaam

what are Crescent Moon Visibility Maps that are used to determine moon sightings exactly?

are they based on calculations or are they based on actual observance for each single day?

are visibility maps 100% accurate for each single day?

a simple answer that can be understood by a layman would be appreciated.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 31st May 2017 13:39

xs11ax wrote:
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W-Salam,

There are no observations for every single day, I think you mean to say that observation of new crescent. This issue needs to be explained in steps so let’s begin Insha’Allah.

There are some facts which are undisputed and if a sighting contradicts these facts the sighting needs to be rejected, these facts are as follows:

  1. New Moon Conjunction (Birth): The moon has to be born before you can see it. If it is not born, it cannot be seen
  2. Moonset: If the Moon sets before the sunset then there is NOTHING to see at sunset because it is not there

Both of these calculations are 100% accurate and there is no margin for error and there is no dispute.

There is similar to sunrise and sunset times. You take these figures and use it every single day for acts of worship, without question. Where there is a Solar eclipse, you use the figures and use it without question.

New Moon birth and moonset is no different.

If you have any questions about these two facts let me know. If these are clear then we will get into actual observations.

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 31st May 2017 17:13
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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jazakallah khair.

1. how is the date of the new moon conjunction determined in advance? through calculations?

2. how is the new moon conjunction determined on the day? through calculations or actual observance?

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 1st June 2017 11:49

xs11ax wrote:
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Why?

It is abundantly clear that the sun and the moon follow a precise calculated path

ٱلشَّمۡسُ وَٱلۡقَمَرُ بِحُسۡبَانٍ۬

[55:5] The sun and the moon [move] by precise calculation,

What?

We also know when New Moon actually happens so its just a matter of calculating the position and orbit of Sun, Moon and Earth.

How?

By using equation of time and Julian date and other parameters.

Accuracy?

No chance of error and 100% reliable.

Every day you deal with these calculations, GPS signal, position and communication. Fajar (sunrise) and Maghrib (sunset)

Birth of the new moon uses similar calculations and has no errors.

Moon Visibility Curves?

This is the next topic once you are clear on the birth of the new Moon

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd June 2017 11:24
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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alhamdolillah. very clear. jzk.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd June 2017 12:04

xs11ax wrote:
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Crescent Visibility Curves:

Science tells us that a crescent becomes visible based on certain parameters to the human eye, for example altitude, elongation and illumination (i.e. how much is lit up for us to see). But visibility curves are based on collected data and are NOT ABSOLUTE.

At a given location, for example Cape Town (South Africa) you can collect data year after year after year as to when the crescent was sighted, plot in on a graph and you get your curves.

The more the data, the better the statistics so they are not 100% FACTS like moon birth and moonset calculations.

They are graphs plotted based on data.

Danjon Limit:

French astronomer André Danjon came up with a minimum angular separation below which it is impossible for the crescent to be sighted (by naked eye or telescope). Today we have disagreements about what is this minimum angle (of separation). I think years ago it was set to 7.5 degrees.

Dr Bernard Yallop (Royal Greenwich Observatory) sets this to be 7 degrees.

Mohammed Odeh (ICOP) sets this to be 6.4 degrees. The reason for there were world record sightings which have been included which brought down the angle to 6.4.

What you need to remember is that naked eye sighting is way before that i.e. if someone claims they have seen by the naked eye at 6.3 degrees, we will reject it.

Human Eye vs Technology?

As you can appreciate that the human eye has largely remained the same since Sayyidina Adam (AS) with similar capability and optics so the records have remained pretty much the same.

The advancement has been in optics and technology which is enabling us to see crescents much younger than ever before.

Our eyes are no better than people who came 500 years ago but two things have caused our crescent sighting (by naked eyes) to get worse:

 

  1. Light pollution is much worse in our times so maybe 250 year ago it may have been easier to sight the crescent from central London, you got no chance now!
  2. Sighting the stars and the crescent was normal back then for people but we have no clue and we are certainly not experts in stargazing at all.

Saudi (naked eye sightings) and the claims that there is an X-MAN in a desert who can sight the moon consistently before the rest of continent Asia is plain stupid. Arabs like to boast about their desert dwellings and for them it’s a matter of pride that this guy is perplexing the world but it is plain idiotic because he is consistently breaking world records (by some distance) which nobody can verify and confirm.

Previous records had to be verified, confirmed and ratified.

So the question isn’t whether visibility curves are reliable or not, its whether one X-MAN in a desert has the ability to defy all science, all observational data for the past 150+ years.

That’s the question you should be asking.

This is nothing but Tassawuff claims of the Deobandees i.e. my Shaykh is the GREATEST SCHOLAR OF QURAAN, HADEETH, FIQH, TASSAWUFF alive on Earth

  • What is the proof about your Shaykh?
  • Because Hazrat such and such said this

Instead of questioning one X-MAN in a desert we begin to question established data which can be checked, rechecked and verified.  Then once we know that visibility curves are not absolute we begin to wonder whether Saudi sightings (of the past 30 years) can be right.

They are not because put aside science and data there are two ways to confirm sighting:

  1. Jamme-e-Ghafeer (Hanafi Madhab): Sighting has to be done by masses of people so lying is impossible
  2. Domino Effect (Ibn Taymiyyah ): As you travel westwards because sunset is later crescent gets sighted (because it is bigger and higher)

Saudi Arabia fails on both counts and has been for decades. One Ramadhan sighting (this one) doesn't change the story or the narrative, unless they change their system (which I hope they do).

 

 

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