Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 
Top Members

Comprehensive Pakistan Thread

Jump to page:

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
abu mohammed, abuzayd2k, bint e aisha, Abdur Rahman ibn Awf, sipraomer
Rank Image
xs11ax's avatar
Unspecified
3,158
Brother
2,252
xs11ax's avatar
#991 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2020 08:05
As a UK Gujarati married to a Pakistani, I can confirm that many Gujaratis and most of the older Gujaratis look down on Pakistanis. Gujaratis have some sort of superiority complex. Even amongst themselves they have a hierarchy based on caste/tribe system. The higher ups are easily differentiated from the lower downs by the family name.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
ssaad's avatar
Offline
Al-Hind
1,408
Brother
11
ssaad's avatar
#992 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2020 08:55
xs11ax wrote:
View original post


If the attitude there is similar to Pakistanis or their supporters (here on this forum) towards Indian Muslims, I salute Gujaratis for their self respect.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
22,978
Brother
9,471
abu mohammed's avatar
#993 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2020 09:01
ssaad wrote:
View original post

It's not self respect!

It's pride!
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
ssaad's avatar
Offline
Al-Hind
1,408
Brother
11
ssaad's avatar
#994 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2020 09:11
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


Depends on how you view it.

Some one abuses me, I run away. Someone else stands up and gives back in same coin.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
2,616
Brother
3,198
Maripat's avatar
#995 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2020 13:41
Zaid Hamid and (Former) Ambassador Abdul Basit Sahab are talking about some pronouncements of Professor Pervez Hoodbhuy on Qaid-e-Azam and the Two Nation Theory wherein he said that Pakistan was a creation of confusion.

What I am digging up in my Seervai thread is about this issue only. It looks like Pakistanis can not sort it out without our help. The strange thing is that the break through in this case came from a Pakistani only - Professor Ayesha Jalal. Strangely she herself belongs to the ideology as Professor Hoodbhuy.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,516
Brother
10,054
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#996 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2020 19:16

Maripat wrote:
View original post

Ayesha Jalal is wrong.

Not wanting Pakistan (as an independent state) originally and two nation theory are two separate matters.
 
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
2,616
Brother
3,198
Maripat's avatar
#997 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 05:12
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

Quote:
Ayesha Jalal is wrong.
Not wanting Pakistan (as an independent state) originally and two nation theory are two separate matters.


Some more explanation please.

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
2,616
Brother
3,198
Maripat's avatar
#998 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 05:15
Three Sundry Points


(1) Oriya Maqbool Jan is a very poor substitute of late Dr Israr Ahmed.

(2) Nisar Hassan is reformed to that level where I can ignore him but I still might use him for net practice.

(3) Professor Pervez Hoodbhuy is still confused.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,516
Brother
10,054
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#999 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 06:40

Maripat wrote:
View original post

Muslims are Muwahids (believe in ONE Allah).

Hindus are Mushriks (polytheists)

Muslims and Hindus are distinct and separate in belief, no matter if they look the same (physically), eat the same food, speak the same language or wear the same clothes.

This is Islam! Bring any Alim which you wish to discuss the matter from Qur'aan and Sunnah.


  1. Pakistan was originally thought of as an independent state within unified India
  2. Pakistan was always meant to be a separate "country"
  3. Pakistan got split and East Pakistan became Bangladesh
  4. Pakistan is a FAILED state
  5. Pakistan is guilty of Terrorism
  6. There is more Islam in Indian Muslims then Pakistani Muslims

1-6 (and much more) has nothing to with Muslims and Hindus being distinct and separate in terms of Aqeedah of Islam. Whether Pakistan continues to exist (tomorrow or the day after) is irrelevant to the Islamic Aqeedah.

Ayesha Jalal is a Secularist with no foundation in Islamic theology so she cannot fathom it.

Indian "Ulama and elders" pre-1947 and now have FAILED to separate Pakistan from Islamic Aqeedah and as a result Indian Muslims are confused and dithering about aimlessly.

Take the word "Pakistan" and hit delete and it will make no difference to "Islam". For over 1000+ years, I-S-L-A-M has been the bedrock of our identity (in India) and not ethnicity (neighbourly/brotherly love), 1947 did not change the dynamics EXCEPT in the minds of submissive and meek Ulama and elders who sacrificed it at the alter of survival.

India was conquered in J-I-H-A-D by Muhammad Bin Qasim (RA) and not at the tune of a Guitar. Ahmed Shah Abdali (RA) subdued Marahata at Panipat with his sword and not while playing a violin.

Islam preaches kindness and hospitality towards everyone and more so towards Non-Muslims so they may be impressed with our mannerism and come to Islam.

Tawheed of Allah Ta'ala is distinct from Shirk!



report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
2,616
Brother
3,198
Maripat's avatar
#1000 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 07:11
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

I understand nearly everything and agree with most of it. After that this Indian is still confused about where is the difference of opinion with you.

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,516
Brother
10,054
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#1001 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 07:45

Maripat wrote:
View original post

Ayesha Jalal is a Secularist and her views are based on Secular understanding and analysis of subcontinent history.

You and I (on the other hand) are both Muslims so our analysis will be similar and based on Islam, first and foremost. We may slightly differ but we have greater ability to converge.

but when it comes to us vs Ayesha Jalal...

Never the twain shall meet.

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
2,616
Brother
3,198
Maripat's avatar
#1002 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2020 07:53
OK I get it now.

For future too let me add that I refer to Ayesha Jalal because the world today takes the so called progressive, leftist, communist, Marxists to be the epitome of scholarship. Hence I use their academic research whenever it is convenient for me.

Similarly I use the Saffron opinion makers words whenever it is convenient for me. Particularly Professor Ayesha Jalal's work acknowledged by Sudhindra Kulkarni, LK Advani and Jaswant Singh.

This trick I learned from Ali Miyan and my colleague Professor Ariful Islam.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
2,616
Brother
3,198
Maripat's avatar
#1003 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd May 2020 12:48
A FORMER ISI DG, LT.GEN. Asad Durrani RUMINATES ABOUT POST CORONA WORLD.

The Chronic Imbalance

Lt Gen ® Asad Durrani

"Tumhari Tehzeeb Apne Khanjar Se Aap Hi Khudkushi Kare Gi
Jo Shakh-e-Nazuk Pe Ashiyana Bane Ga, Na Paidar Ho Ga"

(Your civilization will commit suicide with its own dagger
What’s built on a shaky foundation will not last long)

Allama Dr. Iqbal
Pakistan’s Poet Philosopher

Just in case one didn’t agree with this prognosis that the world was hopelessly out of plumb; the corona crisis might help take another look.

To keep ahead of the pack some hounds had indeed gone on steroids. A rat-race depleted the natural resources and produced plenty of junk. If growth became the goal, seeking contentment was like reaching for the lights of a moving truck. Military-Industrial complexes needed perpetual wars to survive. Smaller families was a good idea – taken beyond a point, where children became a drag on the lifestyle, some societies could not raise enough for the old age benefits. Ever more money was being recycled in the same piece of dirt, called real-estate.

In other words, the system was collapsing under its weight. But the worst part was that though it was all too obvious, nothing could be done but to sleepwalk with eyes wide shut. Anyone who suggested that the process was unsustainable; if not pooh-poohed as a naysayer, was shrugged-off with our legendary laissez faire: yehan to apni guzarti hey maze main, akhrat ki khabar khuda janey (enjoy while it lasts – who has seen the hereafter). But no one, not even Iqbal, had the faintest idea that this wobbly structure could be so brutally rocked by a microbe.

When it happened, one was reminded of another shrug. Zia-ul-Haq was often warned that some of his actions would backfire. When they did, he simply said: yeh toe hona hi thaa ; yes, that had to happen”. One still cannot deny all the collateral benefits: air getting cleaner, birds chirping louder, friends and families coming closer, moods more reflective, and personal hygiene now nearly an obsession. And of course we are delighted that corona has lined-up all the high and mighty who were getting too big for their boots (no pun intended) in the same firing line

Understandably, we do not want to lose these gains and have therefore assured ourselves that once the crisis was over, it will no longer be business as before. Possible; but not if history or even mythology were any guide. Nimrod was killed by a mosquito; an ant creeping up the tusk felled an elephant; and David got the better of Goliath. None of that convinced the people at the helm that the balance of power was a sound concept. The UNO, established after the Second World War to prevent or preempt conflicts, cannot fulfill its raison d'être because the Big Five, reluctant to loosen their grip, scuttle all efforts to restructure the world body. At home, the political dynasties resist changes that could infuse new blood. And the Army nips in the bud any move to reform the Higher Defence Organisation, since it could dent its exclusive status. One might still argue that the corona phenomenon was a gamechanger and some citadels must therefore fall. The problem is that even revolutionary movements were hijacked by the better organized or the more powerful.

The Iranian revolution was spearheaded by the Communist Tudeh Party, but was taken over by the Mullahs in quick time. The Arab Spring, triggered by a lone self-immolator, helped the Egyptian military entrench its regime. The Kashmir uprising of the 1990s was led by the pro-independence JKLF, which was soon edged out by groups sympathetic to Pakistan. “The more we change, the more we remain the same”, may sound cynical, but it’s essentially because the beneficiaries of the old order do their best, or their worst, to defend the status quo – in this case, to restore the status-quo-ante. And, they will also be better placed!

Yes, the Virus may not discriminate between the poor and the rich, but the latter have more cushion to absorb its onslaught. Stronger economies, though certainly under stress, were more likely to survive this crisis than those barely keeping their heads above water. Individually too, despite the lockdowns; people with money in bank could put food on the table, while the daily wage earners were out begging for alms. But for our charitable traditions, most of them would have kicked the bucket or stormed the Bastille. Depending upon when we will limp back to a new normalcy, our emaciated masses would rather take out their pushcarts than rally to support a just order. And then there are no signs that the post-corona world would be a more level playing field for the underdog.

To start with; pleas by the UNSG notwithstanding: wars continue; no relaxation of sanctions on Iran; and no letup for the besieged Kashmiris. Reduced violence in Afghanistan, Syria, or Yemen may be due to the diminishing capacities of the belligerents – and some of them must already be positioning to resume combat with more vigour. The state that claims monopoly on power is hard at work to grab even more. Its rationale: after terror, it has to fight another global war – against an invisible enemy. And the looming economic meltdowns provide just the right pretext to declare an emergency. That all these challenges were more effectively met by devolving power—to the point of application, as they say in the military—never crossed an establishment mind.

Lockdowns may or may not be the best option in the current crisis, some of the arguments from the pro-lobby clearly showed that it couldn’t care less about the plight of the powerless. One of them who had never missed a meal in his life believed that since the hunger takes longer to kill than the virus, therefore corona first. Another from his ilk consoled us that in Pakistan people do not die of starvation. If they don’t – as those who defied the recent lockdowns must have noticed – it’s because some of our compatriots take food to the hungry. In the process, the people thus saved will keep the country afloat—and not the state. One can reasonably assume that our big business would suffer because of the worldwide recession, but also that the informal sector could still provide livelihood to the masses. Given a choice therefore, I would rather shut down the government than our undocumented enterprises.

The unipolar world order was already on the mend because the sole superpower had overstretched itself and was running out of steam. In Pakistan, when people whisper in your ears that it was now worse than under Zia, the imbalance was clearly beyond critical. I don’t know why the “tiger force” reminds me of Tiger Niazi, but its creation has uncomfortable similarities with FSF, the mafia that blew-up in ZAB’s face. And if there was any Churchill around to ask if in the present state of war, the courts were still functioning, he was likely to draw a blank.

Indeed, we do not know in what shape the virus will leave us. If we are by then prostrate on ground, all bets are off and the sphinx that will rise from the ashes will lead the new order, or the disorder. But it’s more likely that the world would not be beyond repairs and then the onus of chartering an equitable course would be on the victims of the old order. It can be done, but only if one learnt from the laws of nature.

Open any channel like the Animal World, and the chances are that a predator was chasing a herd of zebras. It gets one, and the others feel relieved under the illusion that they had saved their skin. Sure as hell, another of the species would be hunted in the next round. The French military thinker, Beuf, has formalized this phenomenon as “the piecemeal strategy”. The next episode was likely to show how the horned buffaloes deal with such threats: they build a cauldron for an all-round defence. it’s then the animal of prey that beats the retreat. Now that corona has locked-up the pillagers of earth, time for its saviours to rally around is just right.

Of course, there is a better course available, but that’s for the powers that be to take. According to an old Subcontinental wisdom, jab sara dhan jataa dekhiey to adha dijiey baant – when all that you have was in jeopardy, give away some of it. A just distribution of resources and powers is the proclaimed objective of states and societies. Post-corona, if it was not done voluntarily, some may rally together to snatch all of it.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
2,616
Brother
3,198
Maripat's avatar
#1004 [Permalink] Posted on 6th June 2020 06:26
India - Good, Pakistan - Bad

The constitution of Pakistan bars anyone who is not a Muslim from becoming the head of the state. Ahmedi Muslims were declared non-Muslims by a parliamentary amendment in the constitution in 1974 and are not allowed to participate in the general elections unless they sign an oath proclaiming the finality of the prophet Muhammad. Hence a Hindu, or an Ahmedi or a Christian or Sikh cannot hold the highest civil office in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Yet every other Pakistani TV anchor, populist politician, and an array of Islamic demagogues point their finger towards India criticising her for an imaginary religious discrimination, claiming that Muslims in India face widespread persecution and discrimination on the basis of their faith.

The constitution of the Republic of India guarantees equal rights for all of her citizens without any kind of discrimination, hence, Dr Zakir Hussain, RK Narayan (a Dalit), and Abdul Kalam became presidents of the Republic of India in 1967, 1997 and 2002 respectively. The systemic persecution of Hindu community and other religious minorities in Pakistan is an everyday occurrence.

According to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan report released for 2019, every year, 1,000 Hindu young women are kidnapped, forcefully converted to Islam and married off to their kidnapper. Most recently, the case of a 14-year-old from Jacobabad in Sindh caught attention of international media. The girl was kidnapped while on her way to school and was forcefully converted and married to a Muslim.

When her family filed a case against the culprit, she was brought to face the court. Despite her refusal to change her religion and refusal to consent to marriage, the court, fearful of the Islamic clergy, sent her to a children care home and refused to give her back to her family.

Scores of churches are burnt down or destroyed in the name of Islam in Pakistan. In 1997, thousands of Muslims descended on Shanti Nagar, a small village in Punjab, and destroyed 785 houses, demolished four churches and forced 2,500 Christians to flee the village.

In 2009, fanatics attacked the town of Gojra near Toba Tek Singh in Punjab and burned down Christian homes, killing eight Christians, including four women and a child. Blasphemy law is used as a tool of repression to settle scores with helpless Hindus and Christians.

Asiya Bibi, a Christian, was one such case in which she was accused of blasphemy after a petty argument with Muslim women from her village. She had to spend 10 years in prison before she was acquitted and secretly flown to Canada where she has been granted asylum. Governor of Punjab Salman Taseer, who visited Asiya Bibi in jail and promised to help her find justice, was himself gunned down in Islamabad by his own Muslim security guard.

Jihadi Islamic doctrine was originally born out of the wedlock between western powers and Pakistani military to fulfil the necessity to contain communism from taking hold in Afghanistan. It was conceived by the dollars provided by the CIA and in the evil womb of the Pakistan secret service ISI. Today, Jihadist Islam has become a Frankenstein monster.

Currently, it is exclusively the Pakistani military establishment and the ISI who are in actuality the very evil entity that manufactures, nurtures and exports Jihadi terrorism. From Afghanistan to the Vale of Kashmir and from Morocco in North Africa to the Philippines in the Far East Pakistan, roots of Islamic jihadist terrorism can be traced back to the military General Headquarters (GHQ) in Rawalpindi.

Any attempt to condemn Islamic jihad or the Islamic cultural invasion of non-Muslim societies is conveniently labelled as Islamophobia. The most recent example of which is the city of Hamtramck. No sooner did Hamtramck, a city in Wayne county in the US State of Michigan, became the first American city to elect a Muslim majority council that the residents got a taste of what it is like to live under the domination of an Islam-centric political administration.

In a controversial move, the council has allowed the use of loudspeakers five times a day for Muslim call for prayers causing anxiety among the locals. The loudest noise a normal human ear can bear is 140 decibels and anything above that will incur in pathological damage to one’s health. At average, the mosque loudspeakers generate a noise between 110 and 120 decibels. So when Hamtramck residents complained of the loud noise blasting five times a day in their neighbourhood, they got accused of ‘being against Muslims’.

Source : Yahoo
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
abuzayd2k's avatar
Offline
Hindustan
929
Brother
-22
abuzayd2k's avatar
#1005 [Permalink] Posted on 6th June 2020 16:19
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

For Pakistanis the two nation theory is a matter of aqeedah, but for Indians it is a political matter. As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

When we lived together with non Muslims in one country, Islam was our defining differentiator.

When we broke away and formed our own country, sectarianism became our differentiator.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top

Jump to page: