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abu mohammed, abuzayd2k, bint e aisha, Abdur Rahman ibn Awf, sipraomer
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#676 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 18:48

sipraomer wrote:
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Ok, picking the same issue the 4th time as per your request.

I was trying to discuss the issue point by point in an organized and concise manner. That is we discuss point 1 then point 2, then point 3 and so on and so forth.

  1. When discussing point 1 (the first and starting point and not the end), I quoted Khalid Mehmood Abbasi on Khilafah and asked a question. I also said, if you disagree what is your evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah
  2. You said you disagree with Khalid Mehmood Abbasi on Khilafh and quoted Dr Tanveer Hussain who is a Clean Shaven PTI Supporter

Before answering, if you don't understand the issue ask and say "I do not understand the issue"

If you do understand the issue but did not know that you were refuting Khalid Mehmood Abbasi on Khilafah by quoting Dr Tanveer Hussain who is a Clean Shaven PTI Supporter, say, "I made a mistake I did not know the source etc".

Instead you are saying "Its the content which matters".

Do you stand by your own words quoted as follows:

sipraomer wrote:
No I didn't know who he was. I was interested in the content and not in the person

If you stand by your own words then let me confirm:

  1. You are saying that it is OK to quote content without checking sources or establishing authenticity.

Before answering, if you don't understand the issue ask and say "I do not understand the issue"

Let me repeat, we will get to all the issues 1 by 1 in a polite, precise manner. Do you standby refuting Khalid Mehmood Abbasi on Khilafah by quoting Dr Tanveer Hussain who is a Clean Shaven PTI Supporter?

Yes or No? Did you make a mistake OR do you genuinly believe that it is Islamically permissible to quote clean shaven random PTI supporters because they agree with your points?

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#677 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 18:53
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Are you discussing about Khilafa or are you discussing about my post in which I said that ulema should not take part in jamhuri politics?

What are you discussing? First of all make it clear. This is the last time I am asking.
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#678 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 18:56
sipraomer wrote:
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Quote:
Ulema must avoid politics. Especially Jamhuri politics. This is only worsening the situation for them and practicing Muslims. They must engage in social welfare of the society in order to earn rewards in Akhirah and improve their image as Muslimeen. They must also produce the means of earning halal revenue instead of being dependent on donations for their deeni work. Without economic freedom there is no such thing like freedom.

In Mardan, I myself saw ulema doing imamat and were also sewing clothes for a living in their spare time. In my vicinity there are ulema who are doing whole sale business of selling clothes. Earning a halal living is a sunnah of Prophets, Sahaba and Tabieen etc. There is no shame in it. And besides, giving dawah through practical example while being engaged in worldly affairs is the most needed form of dawah today. There are billions of bayans. However, public demands honest businessman and honest professionals.

A practicing Muslim who sells pure milk to the public can have a larger impact on people than making 1000 bayans in 100 days.

In this age we lack honest traders and honest professionals. The clean shaven are not ready to fill the gap. However, if ulema take the lead then I am sure that they will rapidly change their image in the eyes of the public.


Everyone is going to face Allah Taala at the day of judgement.

Now tell me, where have I mentioned Khilafah in this post???
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#679 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 19:46
sipraomer wrote:
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This question and answer has become very confusing :)

If the issue is that, wether we can accept the truth coming from a clean shaven man, Why not ? We will accept the truth and even give it in reference, his sin is a different issue altogether.

Allah swt quotes munafiqeen in Quran, accepting the truth from them while rejecting them because they are not saying it with a sincere hreart :

In سوره منافقون :

اِذَا جَآءَكَ الۡمُنٰفِقُوۡنَ قَالُوۡا نَشۡهَدُ اِنَّكَ لَرَسُوۡلُ اللّٰهِ ‌ۘ وَاللّٰهُ يَعۡلَمُ اِنَّكَ لَرَسُوۡلُهٗؕ وَاللّٰهُ يَشۡهَدُ اِنَّ الۡمُنَافِقِيۡنَ لَكٰذِبُوۡنَ

“When the hypocrites come to you, [O Muhammad], they say, "We testify that you are the Messenger of Allah ." And Allah knows that you are His Messenger, and Allah testifies that the hypocrites are liars.” (Surah munafiqun)

This poetry by the poet لبيد ابن ربيعة العامري during the time of Jahilyya was praised by the prophet pbuh, because despite his kufr, what he said was true:

الاكل شيء ما خلا الله باطل*وكل نعيم لامحالة زائل

( Every thing except Allah swt is batil, and every pleasure is temporary)

Is that the issue ? or you people are discussing something else ?

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#680 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 19:47
Seven days have passed and the Azadi march in the capital is still going strong. Some critics were hoping it will fizzle out in couple of days.
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#681 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 19:48

sipraomer wrote:
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Yes, we will discuss this post of yours (and much more)

www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/11437-comprehensi...

But we will discuss it point by point by point and not at random.

Now, I have not asked you anything but set the scene so tell me by picking an option

  1. I understand what you have written
  2. I have not understood what you have written so please explain it again
There is no question anywhere in this post.

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#682 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 20:06

Rajab wrote:
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It depends on your mindset, if you are an honest unbiased person and someone who trusts their senses OR you are biased and will continue to support a certain narrative.

You can watch live coverage OR you can choose not to believe it because the world is against the Ulama of Deoband due to a Zionist Agenda and images/videos are being manipulated.

Depending on the mindset, two answers are entirely possible to your question.

P.S: Doesn't mean that the situation will not change within hours.


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#683 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 20:27

Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I have not asked anything but tried to explain how we should proceed and why.

I have then asked the young brother if he understood it OR would like me to explain the 1 line (above) further.

I have ended up with a "FacePalm" for my efforts.



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#684 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2019 20:32

ALIF wrote:
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Part 1:

  1. Would you accept the Tafseer/Translation of a Qur'aan from a clean shaven person?
  2. Would you accept the Tafseer/Translation of a Qur'aan from a Scholar who has studied and specialized in it and other (Scholars) have exhibited their trust in the said person.

The question is not about random "truth" but Tafseer/Translation of a Qur'aan

Part 2:

Lets suppose that you despise PTI and disagree with it, entirely. And you also make your disagreement entirely clear

  1. Would you accept the Tafseer/Translation of a Qur'aan from a clean shaven PTI supporter?
  2. Would you accept the Tafseer/Translation of a Qur'aan from a Scholar who has studied and specialized in it and other (Scholars) have exhibited their trust in the said person.

The question is not about random "truth" but Tafseer/Translation of a Qur'aan

Part 3:

  1. Why would you accept the Tafseer/Translation of a Qur'aan from a clean shaven PTI supporter?

For what purpose? Would you not refer the matter to a classical trusted commentator/commentary of the Qur'aan?

The question is not about random "truth" but Tafseer/Translation of a Qur'aan

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#685 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2019 01:59
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I would accept Tafseer and translation of Quran from someone who is a scholar, is trust worthy and Muttaqi as compared to a clean shaven PTI supporter or the likes of him.

These are two set (and narrow) parameters, where the choice is rather obvious, and being a PTI supporter is a political inclination while Tafseer/ translation is a purely Ilmi thing. Again being ‘clean shaven’ is a relative issue. Some clean shaven people like ‘Allama Iqbal’ and ‘Said Nursi’ may be taken a bit more seriously than even some established scholars.

So it depends on who we are talking about...

But I would rather ‘opt out’ of this discussion as I am still not clear as to what is the topic under discussion. Sorry for interfering. You can ignore me and continue with the topic please.

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#686 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2019 05:52
bint e aisha wrote:
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I agree with most of your views sister.

And by the way I just used your post to express my own views and in spite of me using quotes after quotes from your post my intention was just to express my views only. I was not reacting to your views. I find your views very natural and my disagreement with you is mostly minor.

But I am thankful to you for pointing out that if we criticize Maulana then the onus is on us to bring in the evidence.

Sadly in my psyche the damage to Maulana's image has been done.

And if no one agrees with the Maulana on the forum then the problem boils down to whether we should support Imran Khan or not. That, I suppose, we should discuss.

And there it becomes a problem again. Being Deobandis we should be focusing on Deoband.

Sadly we do not have the likes of Drs Israr Ahmed, Zakir Naik and the PM Imran Khan.

On so many frontiers it becomes a bad report card.

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#687 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2019 06:49
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Let us assume that Maualna Fazl-ur-Rahman dislodges Imran Khan.

Will it be good deed, Neki?

I most humbly would like to disagree.

JUI has been talking of the Dharna since at least April but they implemented it only after an excellent United Nations General Assembly speech by the elected Prime Minister Imran Khan.

Let us note forget that Democracy is Haraam is not an argument here because JUI has been part of it.

In summary it can not be good deed to punish a Muslim for his brave act. Maulana should fear Allah SWT.

***

There is another distraction that has been creeping into Maulana-vs-Imran Khan discussion - Khilafah.

Sadly we are in the middle of a very intense power game between the west (combined with the Zinoist and and by now Saffron forces) and Islam. Whether we like it or not.

In this situation it looks like a good idea to invoke Khilafah because that would purportedly united the Muslim Ummah and make us unassailable. I most respectfully disagree.

Talk of Khilafah and the west will increase its cohesion and Azm and resolve to defeat Islam ( the religion of terrorists and hence terrorism personified) faster than Muslims uniting as an Ummah.

Please do not forget that west has been operating out of their united strength. They have been active and assertive and they are simply defending their superiority in the power structure. Muslims on the other hand are simply struggling to unite and every time they show even feeble strength the west comes down extremely heavily and completely decimates the effort.

In fact the actions of the likes of OBL and Baghdadi are counter productive from this point of view that these have helped the west to unite and made Muslims defensive plus created more enemies for Islam and Muslims than we have the strength.

Muslims will be well served if they operate out of strength rather than by creating a more powerful enemy than we cab deal with. sadly we are doing the latter and not the former.

I suppose at least for the time being Khilafah should be out.

On the other hand there is some point in case Muslims are interested in declaring that we shall not compromise on Shariah, come what may. And that Shariah will be defined by us. This itself is a tall order but much better option to defend.

The best option is what I have been using as my Signature for years. In case brothers and sisters would listen. This is a motto or a manifesto that can be defended in broad day light and the west will be looking hard for options to deal with it. Personally I have no better ideological option to take on the west.

Wallahualam.

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#688 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2019 07:19
Maripat wrote:
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Sir, we are out of options.

Wether we go slow or fast, openly or discretely, it will hardly make a difference. The enemy has made it a point to either force us into total submission or else annihilate us...

It is a fact that we are weak and disunited and disorganised and demoralised and therefore ‘at the moment’ we can’t defeat them...

But we will learn to fight back during the process of resistance. Instinct for survival is very powerful and it creates miracles :)

Just keep watching the renaissance of this Ummah out of the ashes of the past. This is my faith !!!
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#689 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2019 10:22

08NOV2019: If new Elections have the same results...

If a new #Elections has the same result we will not accept it and we will start #Protests again 

Maulana Fazlur Rahman #Azadi_March_Updates #Democracy #Pakistan

اگر نئے الیکشن یھی نتائج لائے تو پھر قبول نہیں کریں گے

مولانا فضل الرحمن

Watch Interview clip:

twitter.com/Muadh_Khan/status/1192749054486351872

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#690 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2019 10:48
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Strange !

He was never so illogical before, don’t know what is on his mind ?

To be honest, nobody is interested in these games any more. People know they are being fooled around but they can’t do anything. Various mafias are ruling the country. Even ‘justice’ is selective. The politicians (including Imran) are not truthful about many things. The truth can not be differentiated from falsehood. Nawaz was supposed to be the epitome of corruption, now comes his ‘platelets’ and he is about to fly out of the country, possibly along with his daughter. There are thousands of equally or more sick patients in jails who don’t get even proper treatment. The allowance for treatment of a common jail inmate is only Rs 150 per day (according to Dr Shahid Masood, who spent time in jail himself for a few months)...

Every politician arrested for corruption ends up in hospital in a few days or gets ‘production orders’ to attend assembly sessions.

Even now, it seems, the real wheeling and dealing is done by the all powerful establishment. Imran khan might be crying hoarse that there will be no NRO but who cares about him ? He is not the real ruler..

Those who speak a word about the ‘real masters’ are blacked out by media, labelled foreign agents, anarchists...

Humiliated and frustrated, many start talking nonsense, but most simply loss interest in the process and goes into isolation :(

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