Comprehensive Pakistan Thread

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2017 08:05

MUFTI SYED ADNAN KAKAKHEL

Pakistan was created in the name of Islam:

Halalified YouTube Audio

State of Pakistan was established after migration just like the state of Madina:

Halalified YouTube Audio

Importance of Pakistan:

Halalified YouTube Audio

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2017 12:51

bint e aisha wrote:

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History tells us Pakistan was never meant to be independent country, it was meant to be an autonomous state or a province of India with Muslim autonomy.

Something like Scotland (with maybe more devolved powers).

In 1945 Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) did a course correction due to Hindu treachery and he realised that Hindus will not give Muslims autonomy so he asked for Pakistan.

Creation of Pakistan created massive problems for Muslims (of India). Muslim vote bank, Muslim intelligentsia, Muslim institutions, Muslim Infrastructure was all severely crippled and have not recovered until today.

(Muslims) of India would have understood that they made a sacrifice for an “Islamic State” but the fact is that Pakistan is an utter failure so sacrifices have gone in vain.

Bangladesh have gone the other way and they are now practically 27^th state of India.

It is a humiliating reality that we have to face every day.

For (Muslims) of Pakistan they are safe, not being lynched for eating Kebabs for Muslims of India and Bangladesh, Pakistan is a serious disappointment.

I don’t know what the answer is. Its rather too late to discuss two-state theory but Muslims of Pakistan should pick up some pace (and do something) to make Pakistan a success.

That’s all we can do.

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There is no Plan B!

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2017 14:58

Quote:

History tells us Pakistan was never meant to be independent country, it was meant to be an autonomous state or a province of India with Muslim autonomy.

Something like Scotland (with maybe more devolved powers).

Agree

Quote:

Creation of Pakistan created problems for Muslims of India, is this the reason they disagree with two-nation theory and support the notion of "akhand Bharat" (undivided India)?

Quote:

(Muslims) of India would have understood that they made a sacrifice for an â€œIslamic Stateâ€ but the fact is that Pakistan is an utter failure so sacrifices have gone in vain.
Bangladesh have gone the other way and they are now practically 27th state of India.

It is a humiliating reality that we have to face every day.

It doesn't mean that we should look back on partition.
We should agree that Pakistan was indispensable and Pakistan is indispensable.

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2017 11:40

Umm Khadeejah wrote:

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I love this post and hence I would like to comment on it even though it was not addressed to me.

Quote:

Thanks for the detailed explanation about creation of Pakistan. I was also in a wrong impression that Jinnah was the cause for secularism found in Pakistan today and I never knew he wanted to establish an Islamic government.

Jinnah's character has been used by the seculars of Pakistan to muddy waters.
But I am surprised that religiously inclined Muslims of Pakistan have not been able to put the controversy to rest.

Jinnah by disposition was a secular man. He was not very religious. That Allama Iqbal chose him to lead the Pakistan movement is a tribute to his abilities.

Also there is no reason for the Muslims of Pakistan to be defensive about anything.

After 1857 the ire and anger of the British was turned against the Muslims and hence their mettle for participation in the independence movement was seriously curtailed. In view of this it could be called a miracle that Jinnah managed to get a country for Muslims.

If we look at the freedom movement of India then one has to admit that the history had seen few parallels to this phenomenon. A mass movement of this kind and complexity and unity simply does not exist in the world history. Movement for Pakistan on the other hand happens to be a one man show.

Both are remarkable in their own right.

After that to argue that Pakistan movement was an exercise in secular polity is an innovation.

Quote:

But this puzzles me more. If the very basic objective was to establish shariah and founders (I hope I can call Jinnah a founder here) are in favor, then why was it difficult to bring in shariah?

This is a good question. Pakistan movement was a one man show and that man happened to be secular.
He could not have designed his country as an Islamic state, even if he wanted. He simply did not have that mind set.

So the next question will be why othr Pakistanis did not do the needful? If Jinnah did not have the disposition to mould Pakistan into an Islamic state then why did not others fill in the gap? Answer to that is simple. There were no other capable people. Our clergy, even today, just like Jinnah simply does not have the know how and capability to create an Islamic state. They do not have the know how to manage a modern state. Our secular sector of Muslim society has neither the inclination nor desire to create an Islamic state. So who will create the Shariah based state?

The ruling dispensation in pakistan has been most confused one in all of Muslim history. People like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto are amongst the most pathetic examples of politicians in civil history of the universe. You can not have expectations of even good secular governance from people like them. They all are or were cheap politicians and would never rise to the level of statesman.

To expect the establishment of an Islamic state from them is an idle dream.

Quote:

I also thought the most Islamic leader pakistan ever got was Zia ul Haqq. Anyways it is very sad to see even the ulema got deluded. Whatever be the case, I feel bad how weak we muslims have become.

General Ziaul Haq is the favourite punching bag of the secular chest beaters over the world. In view of Muadh Khan's comments about his circumstances I shall not comment immediately on his tenure.

Quote:

The enemies are continuously working against us. On the other hand when we Muslims try to get back and the enemies give a blow, we fall flat for years and take years to get back.

True.
And I am glad that you know it sister.
It also means that others too know it.
Honestly speaking the problem that you are alluding to in this group of statements is the one that I have been focusing upon for a few years. Rightly or wrongly I feel that I do have a way out of this vicious circle.
That is what I have been trying to say for some time.

Quote:

We Muslims should be more active in bringing in Islam than the enemies in bringing it down. I am not aiming this post at Muslims of pakistan but Muslims in general.

Me too.
And it can be said without fear of any contradiction that all of us at MS and other forums have been worrying about the same.

Quote:

The defeat, weakness and inability we are portraying is just unbelievable. We have destroyed all the efforts that our pious predecessors put for Islam.

I shall put it differently. We simply have not found the way to stand upon our feet.

Quote:

We are in such a poor state. Sorry for the rant but I wish we all bounce back every time we face any attack and not just surrender. Already the loss we Muslims incurred cannot be compensated here but only in akhirah. Sooner we realize, it is better or else I fear only worst happening to us. Only Allah SWT can guide, unite and protect us.

I too hope and I too pray for it.

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Muslim Ummah aspires to attain a rightful and honored place among the civilizations of the world and make our proportionate contribution towards international peace, progress and happiness of humanity.

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2017 11:50

bint e aisha wrote:

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Quote:

Why are you against the creation of Pakistan and two nation theory?

As I said earlier sister, because the bill came to me. I am an Indian Muslim.
Thus I feel the best way is to follow is that Pakistanis think about Pakistan in their own way and we Muslims of India think in our own way. let us simply do away with the confusion.

Quote:

Do you really believe in Hindu-Muslim unity?

Good question.
As a Muslim of India I do not have the option to disbelieve.

Quote:

I am asking this cos I used to think that Indian Muslims do have sympathy for Pakistan. Your response would be appreciated.

Sister you got a Muslim country and you should enjoy it.
How Muslims of India think about pakistan should not bother you. Muslims of India are merely 14,1 percent while the majority community is eighty percent and too many of the majority community hate Pakistan very intensely. Please know this very well, even if you do not like it or understand that. So any Muslim in India showing any liking for Pakistan will put himself in grave danger. That is unfortunate and sad but that is what the reality is. Please understand it, accept it and move on.

Later on I might get some more enlightenment on this issue but at the moment I am ashamed that I have none.

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2017 11:57

bint e aisha wrote:

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Quote:

It doesn't mean that we should look back on partition.
We should agree that Pakistan was indispensable and Pakistan is indispensable.

Now that we have bounced these comments back and forth several times I hope you understand that if you think of the interests of the Muslims of Pakistan then you end up compromising Indian Muslims and vice-a-versa.

That is all.

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2017 12:10

I really really really don't want to write about General Ziaul Haq (RA) as a Professional Solider and his background and his Career due to the Hadeeth of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) of not talking ill about a person who has passed away.

May Allah Ta'ala forgive his sins and grant him Jannatul-Firdaus (Ameen).

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There is no Plan B!

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2017 12:24

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Even then kindly provide an objective picture because I need it to sort out the things in my mind.

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2017 12:56

Maripat wrote:

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It seems that my questions have annoyed you..well it wasn't intended.
Khayr leave it. Don't wanna comment here anymore!
Salam

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2017 13:01

bint e aisha wrote:

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I don't think you have done so. In fact it is the opposite.

It's not often we get to read the opinion of others first hand.

I'm stuck in between as both my parents are from both countries, so any detail is informative. I too can speak from both sides, for and against. But as I was born in the UK, I don't have a real insight into these countries. I can only say what I see from experiance.

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Actions are judged by intentions, so each man will have what he intended.
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2017 13:14

bint e aisha wrote:

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Not at all.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2017 07:11

Hassan Nisar on Atom Bomb - 1

Here is the video in the question.

But first some general remarks.

Internal enemies can be more damaging than external ones.
Experience of the Muslim Ummah has born out this from day one.
Banu Quraiza, Banu Nazir, Banu Qainuqa were early examples of close tribes endangering the very existence of the Ummah.

Muslim Ummah at every point of time has to be alert about such internal enemies.
In 1757 Nawab Sirajuddaula was betrayed by Mir Jafar.
In 1799 Tipu Sultan was betrayed by Mir Sadiq.

Sadiq az dakan, Jafar az bangal
Nag-e-mulk, nang-e-qaum, nang-e-deen

Sadiq in Deccan, Jafar in Bengal
Wretched of nation, country, faith

Hassan Nisar is not an out an out enemy in the open.
But he is very damaging to the Ummah that is struggling to come out of the dungeons of the western colonialism.
He is a friend worse than an enemy.

Someone said that you are worse of with a foolish friend than an intelligent enemy.

The least damage he is doing is to demoralise Muslim Ummah by demoralising Muslims of Pakistan.
He does not indulge in out and out demoralisation.
He acts as if he is operating out genuine ineterests of Muslims and Islam.
I am sure he is certain that he is doing a favour to Pakistanis in particular and Muslims in general by acting in a manner in which is acting.

He adopts an attitude that looks objective to unsuspecting people.
In reality he speaks out of interest and not disinterest.
Unfortunately the interests at the back of his motivation are not of those of the Muslims of Pakistan or the Muslim Ummah in general.
He is a residual or derivative Maucaulian.

1st Baron Thomas Babington Macaulay, Member of Her Majesty (The Queen of England)'s Most Honourable Privy Council (25 October 1800 â€“ 28 December 1859)'s Minute on Indian Education on February 2, 1935 has the following, by now very infamous, quote:

Quote:

We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern, --a class of persons Indian in blood and colour, but English in tastes, in opinions, in morals and in intellect.

Reference: Bureau of Education. Selections from Educational Records, Part I (1781-1839). Edited by H. Sharp. Calcutta: Superintendent, Government Printing, 1920. Reprint. Delhi: National Archives of India, 1965, 107-117.

By now this is well known that he had some hideous plans for intellectual subjugation of Indians, Muslims and Hindus. The irony is that by and large Indians in general and Muslims in particular are following the same route-the algorithm proposed by Baron Macaulay. And shamelessly. Same about Pakistan.

British left India, created Pakistan. Yet the servile intellectuals they left behind keep perpetuating the same mindset that was created to further the British interests.

British are gone and hence their interests in Muslim society of the subcontinent have greatly reduced but the slave mindset has not come out of the colonial subjugation. It continues to serve the god that is broken long back.

Hassan Nisar is one such colonial puppet. A Muslim who speaks the language, thought and cherishes the values that are not only foreign but even enemic to Islam and Muslims.

The habit that was created by the British in the last phase of their stay in the subcontinent has reached our DNA.

The tragedy is compounded by the fact that he bases his arguments on logic and he operates out of actual ground level facts and hence the Muslims who would like to fulfill their covenant with Allah SWT can not figure out the deception that is woven into his narrative. Since they can not catch his perfidy they arrive at the wrong conclusion - they assume that he is speaking the truth.

In reality his truth is adulterated.

The Muslim clergy is ineffective in catching his adulteration because they, like an ostrich in desert, have never cultivated the vocabulary needed to address the issues that he focusses upon.

The Modern educated Muslims can not catch his subterfuge because, just like Hassan Nisar, they too remain awestruck by the the former colonial might and present material wealth, military power and scientific establishment and technological prowess. West can only be correct and by implication Hassan Nisar.

If Hassan Nisar is a programmed cyborg than the modern educated Muslim is a miserable broiler chicken who is practically useless for task of making Ummah self sufficient. He suspects that there might be something wrong in the odeology perpetuated by the likes of Hassan Nisar but can not pin it down and then in a haste to protect his own integrity surrenders abjectly and finds refuge in simply keeping silent.

That is the tragedy. When the modern educated Muslim should have shut Hassan Nisar up he prefers to remain silent. In the meanwhile Hassan Nisar has moved from being a vocal and brilliant journalist to a public intellectual caught in a backward Muslim country to whom his beloved community does not listen.

Coming to the video in question.

In this video Hassan Nisar does accept that it was a near impossible fete for Pakistan to make the atom bomb.

Strangely enough he also admits that it protects the hunger of the hungry.
There lies the first catch for us.
If it protects something then should it not be classified as an achievement of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?
It should be.
But Hassan Nisar has sabotaged the accolades by mixing the metaphor.
There is technology and there is a problem in his metaphor.
The problem is of hunger.
Now hunger is a bad thing and you should not protect it, you must do something to remove it.
Buy mixing his metaphor he has managed to denounce a significant, by his own admission, achievement.

Then you have that macabre analysis in which Pakistan wipes out eight percent of Indiaian population and in the meanwhile herself is hundred percent wiped out. This part is more sickening then it looks at a first glance. The fallacy here is that just because there is a bigger and hostile neighbour a Muslim country must simply give up all hopes. Normally military and arms disbalance should be point to ponder and worry but not a conclusive argument about your well being. Or against your well being. Hassar Nisar errs on that.

Pakistan should have worked on poverty removal and for the modern development more than it has and she still should do that but this can be said without demoralising the population - Muslims.

Someone should kindly summarise this post.

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2017 09:05

Bismillah

This is what I could summarize in general and not just for pakistan Muslims:

Muslims should be aware of perfidious friends. As they are more dangerous, people who recognize them should tear their veil and expose them to naive people so they become more aware.

I want to add something from my side. This is why I said people who are blessed with knowledge and good vocabulary should come forward to defend. For example, when people like katju or anyone talk non-sense, even though our words do not get to their heads, we should leave the message strongly and wisely on their blogs or any media they are using. They may not take it but there are many who read and it can change their perspective. We should not underestimate any little efforts we put. Now I know many people like me may not have good knowledge or strong in English but still we should learn to attempt. I remember the words from my sheikh's bayan. "If you decide to drive the vehicle only when you become a perfect driver, this can never happen because you will become perfect only when you start and keep driving." Eventually with improvements we will become perfect one day inshaaAllah. If ulema lack this ability to defend when they have good knowledge, then those who are good at putting things perfectly should consult with the ulema, learn from them and try to defend. The evil ones should not be left alone to their vicious acts. Strong knowledge should speak that would shut them up eventually inshaaAllah as it will enlighten the deluded ones who are listening to their treacherous talks. Allahu alam

Sorry if it is off topic.

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Say, "O my people, work according to your position; [for] indeed, I am working. And you are going to know who will have succession in the home. Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed." Surah Anaam, Ayat 135

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2017 09:28

Umm Khadeejah wrote:

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No it is not off the topic sister.
And thanks for the summary. (Though perhaps I have to do my post again.)
I have spent some time commenting on Justics Katju's FB page.
In general I have been doing precisely what you are suggesting.
Additionally my effort has been that my brothers and sisters should be doing the same.
This is one avenue in which we can achieve a lot.
Muslim Ummah today has a bad name.
Most of it is due to negative stereo-typing by the west because of the ages old prejudices.
We got to remove that.
Academics is the shortest route to that goal.
I am doing that and I invite my brothers and sisters to join me.
A few people from UK, a few from US, a few from other main european countries, a few from India, a few from the Gulf, a few from Pakistan, a few from Africa and that is all.
We can change the image of Islam in few years only.
Unfortunately I don't have even that.
I have only one, Muadh Khan, on MS.
There are few brothers on FB but they are too hesitant and to respond to my requests.
Though they keep writing.
May Allah SWT give me this work force that I want and need so desperately.

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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2017 09:33

Bismillah
Let Allah SWT help you with the accomplishment. Ameen

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