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Abu layth and his hatred of deobandis

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 6th May 2016 15:11
Concerned wrote:
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I agree with you. My point was abu layth's reasoning and mocking attitude. He was mocking the fact it is 48 instead of 47.9999 etc.
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 8th May 2016 08:50

[Quote Abu Layth] What an absurdity...that a woman can travel 47.9 miles but not 48! Such views are an abomination to human civility! And especially to women liberties!

These kind of views belong in caves and not communities!...another reason why many people leave the Faith...due to the illogical and laughable legislation of certain men...and the silence of others!

Make NO mistake in understanding that despite what the local Mulla tells you...this view is NOT from the Quran nor Sunnah...all else is simply an opinion...and in this case most certainly an absurd one! [/quote]

عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏:‏ ‏ "‏لا يحل لامرأة تؤمن بالله واليوم الآخر تسافر مسيرة يوم وليلة إلا مع ذي محرم عليها‏"‏ ‏(‏‏(‏متفق عليه‏)‏‏)‏ ‏.‏
 

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to make a journey of one day and night unless she is accompanied by a Mahram (husband or any other relative to whom she is prohibited to marry)." [Bukhari and Muslim]
 

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2016 08:51
Harris Hammam has defended abu Layth in his most recent facebook posts. I will attempt to answer his silly arguments inshallah. It would be great if our brothers on this forum can assist on this issue. I would like to urge Abu Zubair and Ustadh Salman ibn Nasir to please advise their buddy Harris Hammam. Intelligent brothers like them should be able to see that in this whole episode the problem is not with the deobandis but rather with Abu Layth and by extension Harris Hammam. Anyway I will be updating this thread slowly but will need some help from our dear brothers on this forum and elsewhere inshallah.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2016 11:55
Harris Hammam wrote a whole post on the 48 miles issue. He went into some fiqhi details but Towards the end he wrote a little comment;

Finally, when it comes to Mufti Abu Layth, I disagree with his treatment of the 48 position, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to do so, just as scholars of the past took the mick out of each other for their views they deemed to be absurd. MALM perhaps went too far but let us start to develop a chin, not like Amir Khan's. I do however severely disagree with MALM in that 48 may lead to apostasy and a mockery of the Din of Allah, but that's about it. As for personal attacks on MALM, let's just chill for a bit. If you really have something personal against MALM, don't try to do him over in this minor issue!

May Allah keep Mufti Abu Layth laughing.

#Hashtag
#Hashtag
#Hashtag
#Hashtag

See the highlighted parts above. He does seem to indicate that abu layth made some sort of mistake but he shrugs it off. I mean it is not a minor slip up that abu layth made. I mean do those that apostate even know this 48km fatwa? So he admits apostacy has nothing to do with the fiqhi ruling.

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2016 12:28
shouldnt we be bringing this to the attention of scholars who some times share platform with him? im sure i seen posters where is is speaking at events with deo scholars present. guy should be boycotted if he has these views.

also the 48km thing is it really a hard and fast rule? i thought the 48km was for determining when one becomes a musaafir. so can a woman not travel a 3 days journey, or 48km or both? is not 48km an estimate of what you could travel in 3days on camel/horse etc. today you can travel from uk to aus in less than a day so what will happen to the 3 day rule?

i ask this as sometimes i let my mrs drive to her mums which is about 40miles from house, even if it was 50 if she safe in the car i wouldnt see a problem with it. so what do the muftis say.

apologies if im going off track but its something thats beein bothering me for a while. im not one to deny hadith n stuff but how do we know which hadiths and rulings are for all times and which ones were specific to the time n era of rasolullah (saw). there are many examples were ulema have said so and so doesnt apply in our times. can it not be argued for this? woman driving in a car is alot safer than a woman in wild arabia them days riding on a camel.
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2016 12:42
I will highlight some of harris's objections. He says Believe me, my days of calling Deobandis out for such absurdities are over If it was really over why the need to mention Darulooms in his post when discussing females travelling without mahram. Why not retract for his years of public bashing of deobandis? Are we supposed to be mind readers that HH has changed his ways? Why the need to comment on what laymen are saying on a public forum?

He gives some advice; My advice to laymen is never to buy into emotionally-charged sectarian laymen. Now this is a joke if I ever saw one. I very rarely get involved in sectarian issues and have mostly a good relationship with a number of Muslims from various groups. Where did HH get such information from? I'm sure he knows plenty of people in my local area who know me so why not ask them. Yes, I have a problem with modernists like Abu Layth and will always go after them as they are a danger to the Muslims. Everyone else I don't have a major issue with. I find it ironic that Harris Hammam is alleging that I am into sectaranism. I mean this was the guy who spent a lot of his life attacking deobandis on forums such as ahlalhadeeth and islamic awakening. He used to attack asharis in a crude way and a whole host of people.


Harris Hammam continues;

They will mess with your brain and will make you start distrusting others. Wow what a strange fellow. He is the same person who spent a lot of time criticizing hanafis, deobandis, deobandi scholars on public forums and social media making a good number of people distrust ulema and deobandis with his silly comparisons with madkhalis, nitpicking small mistakes of scholars like shaykh limbada

If anything, this 'rant' by London786 has brought me closer to MALM. Mashallah it has made him closer to a devient. Shows his level of ikhlaas if a mere rant by a layman brings him closer to malm. Still it is good that he gets close to him. He might want to also do an interview with henry jackson society with him and meet his buddy rashad ali and sign fatwas by usama hasan. I think this tag team of HH and MALM will take Qulliam to the next level.

I might just pop down to Birmingham one day and meet the brothers there, and give a lecture. I might even give a lecture on "The position of the Malikis vis-a-vis Taqlid Shakhsi" - how does that sound? Then we'll definitely be in cahoots to batter the fanatical Madkhali segments of Deobandis to kingdom come. Once again the absurb comparison of deobandis to madkhalis. Alhamdulillah we deobandis will be around for a long time to come. Even Abu Eesa admitted that when others were dropping like flies after 9/11 etc the deobandis were doing what they do best. Grassroots work mashallah.

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2016 12:51
I have made a conscious decision that I shall devote only a certain percentage of my time and energy to take on HH and his collaborators. I am not responsible beyond my capabilities.

I know success comes only after Allah swt's help arrives and after some time of effort. Because of this my inter locution with HH and company has to be mechanical, according to some protocol chosen by myself and I must not expect immediate results. And in no case be discouraged. Allah swt has designed people like HH and Abu Layth, in His Wisdom.

So in conclustion there is no point in dissipating our energies on them. Read durood

أللهم صل على محمد وعلى آل محمد كما صليت على إبراهيم وعلى آل إبراهيم إنك حميد مجيد. أللهم بارك على محمد وعلى آل محمد كما باركت على إبراهيم وعلى آل إبراهيم إنك حميد مجيد
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2016 14:54
One thing I have to give credit to Ismail Ibrahim for, and that is for opening my eyes to the fact that the Deobandis are incorrect in the way the put across Taqleed , the method which a laymen has to practice Taqleed, and the fact that they ignore other valid views on how Taqleed is to be practiced.

And before anyone cautions me of who to take knowledge from, then They can read what the Shafi ulama and others have explained about Taqleed.
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 11th May 2016 15:42

Message to Haris Hamaam:

There are many who disagree with Taqleed Shaksi and will continue to and there is no problem with that.

Nevertheless it is an opinion held by Scholars and they have the right to express that opinion and for others to make Taqleed of their opinion.

The 48 miles distances is also held by many Scholars and it is demeaning and unbecoming of a Scholar to issue “rants” on the subject which are baseless.

I am happy that you have distanced yourself from the issue.

Let’s now turn to the issue at hand…

The matter with Abu Layth Al-Maliki is not of disagreement on Academic matters but of his involvement with PREVENT and his possession of hard-core pornography…There are many Muslims (Brothers, Sisters & Parents) who are witnesses to the conduct of Abu Layth Al-Maliki but due to various reasons (safety, fear etc) don’t wish to come out and testify against this person.

Whatever you think of Madkhali Deobandees they are in no way morally reprehensible individuals like Abu Layth Al-Maliki. His explanation doesn’t go far enough at all to explain his association with the TROJAN HORSE program and possession of hard-core pornography.

Abu Layth Al-Maliki is well connected so he can probably target me personally for this post, report me or have this post removed but it doesn’t change the facts.

He is 100% involved with hard-core pornography, He is 100% a morally reprehensible individual.

At the risk of personal safety, I have delivered the message to you for the day of judgement.

As far as Deobandees are concerned, there are some very sincere individuals who are strict on following the Sunnah so Allah Ta’ala will protect the Deobandees when I, you and Abu Layth Al-Maliki will be long gone.

We truly live in the times of Dajjal when people defend individuals such as Abu Layth Al-Maliki and Scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaah are condemned for holding opinions which they deem to be close to Sunnah.

Just because someone can articulate, speak or write effectively doesn’t give them acceptance in the court of Allah Ta’ala.

The time for Abu Layth Al-Maliki will come, if not in this world but in the hereafter.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 12th May 2016 02:00
al-salamu alaykum,

There is a lot of su' al-dhann in this thread. Academically, even the Hanafis don't really have a united frontier for the 48 miles position let alone any other number. It is well known that the scholars have calculated the number for the ease of the laity similar to the rulings on how big a well vs najasa falling into it. It is 2016, let's move on from Taqlid debates (it's been done to death)... If you have proof a prominent figure has sinned then please consider veiling the sin (especially if they have repented) considering:

عَنْ أَبِي بَرْزَةَ الأَسْلَمِيِّ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ يَا مَعْشَرَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِلِسَانِهِ وَلَمْ يَدْخُلِ الإِيمَانُ قَلْبَهُ لاَ تَغْتَابُوا الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعُوا عَوْرَاتِهِمْ فَإِنَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ عَوْرَاتِهِمْ يَتَّبِعِ اللَّهُ عَوْرَتَهُ وَمَنْ يَتَّبِعِ اللَّهُ عَوْرَتَهُ يَفْضَحْهُ فِي بَيْتِهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ مَنْ سَتَرَ عَوْرَةَ أَخِيهِ الْمُسْلِمِ سَتَرَ اللَّهُ عَوْرَتَهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَمَنْ كَشَفَ عَوْرَةَ أَخِيهِ الْمُسْلِمِ كَشَفَ اللَّهُ عَوْرَتَهُ حَتَّى يَفْضَحَهُ بِهَا فِي بَيْتِهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

وعن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ “المسلم أخو المسلم لا يخونه ولا يكذبه ولا يخذله، كل المسلم على المسلم حرام عرضه وماله ودمه، التقوى ههنا، بحسب امرئ من الشر أن يحقر أخاه المسلم” ‏(‏‏(‏رواه الترمذي وقال ‏:‏حديث حسن‏)‏‏)‏‏.‏

If not, then provide proof as it is a claim. Why are they "afraid", I'm sure many will have their "back". I'm not here to defend either parties or side with them. I could care less as both parties should focus their energy on saving the Muslims who are on the brink of kufr and when bigots are constantly insulting Islam. However, consider that Sh. Abu Layth (and Sh HH) is a scholar and if you cannot give him the respect of a scholar then give him the respect of being your Muslim brother. If you have a problem with him just block him on your Facebook and move on. If you have a problem with if someone is ridiculing a furu' matter then give an academic rebuttal but don't forget the words of your Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم). Please take my post as a reminder to myself first and then unto everyone else. I apologize if I was rude to anyone, this is not my intention. There is a good clarification by brother Zameelur Rahman on AskImam from last year about the distance of travel. The sources are already mentioned for the inquisitive minds:
askimam.org/public/announcement/85

Much can be said but please consider the following:
My shaykh (a direct student of Mawlana Abu 'l-Hasan 'Ali al-Nadwi) once said to me (he heard it from his teachers): "Only non-Muslims consider us all Muslims, but Muslims consider this person 'kafir!' that person 'kafir'". He also said that once his teacher remarked, "If we all brand our brothers and sisters as 'Jahannami', Jannah will be vacant!".

~ IQ.
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 12th May 2016 02:26
May Allah protect the people of knowledge from such slips.
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 12th May 2016 08:08

ibnulqayyim wrote:
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W-Salam,

(Mufti) Ibn Yusuf Shabbir (HA) articulated a point rooted in Shariah. He could well be wrong, way off the mark etc. All Scholars have the right to disagree with him.

(Mufti) Abdur-Raheem Limbada (HA) supports Taqleed Shaksi and is a Shaykh of Tassawuff. He could well be wrong, way off the mark etc. All Scholars have the right to disagree with him.

Abu Layth Al-Maliki is someone who went undercover inside an Institute and undermined the trust of the Muslims (Moz Hussain etc) placed in him. They trusted him as a Scholar, he snitched!

Abu Layth Al-Maliki is also proven to indulge in hard-core pornography.

Both of these matters are well known, established and Muslims are witnesses to these matters and so you are.

There are pages upon pages of refutation from Haris Hammam about Deobandees and many outbursts from Abu Layth Al-Maliki against Deobandees for “Academic slips”.

The issue with Abu Layth Al-Maliki is clear as daylight.

Don’t try to hide behind Academic sophistry and try to portray actions of a morally reprehensible individual like Abu Layth Al-Maliki as “Academic disagreements”.

The issue here is consistency in case of both Haris Hamaam and Abu Layth Al-Maliki. Former was hard done by South African Ulama and others on Sunniforum and I stood up for that, he shouldn’t have been personally targeted. Abu Layth Al-Maliki is a supporter of Maqasid so what is the Maslaha in attacking the Fiqh stance of another Scholar? And in the manner in which it was attacked.

All from someone who is a morally reprehensible individual.

Nobody is branding anyone as a Kaafir but truth and lack of standards need to be called out.

And if you think I am a supporter of Deobandees or (Mufti) Abdur-Raheem Limbada (HA), people will laugh at you so don’t try it!

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 12th May 2016 10:17
henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Refuti...

Why does Abu Layth give interviews to Islamaphobic organisations like Henry Jackson society. This was authored by his mate Rashad Ali of Qulliam Foundation who has a clear reference to an interview with Abu Layth on page 38/39. The same Rashad Ali who Abu Layth recommended for a job at the Trojan hit school. Interestingly Usama hasan has written a foreword for this. Usama Hasan is an interesting name as he is a person who authored a fatwa which was signed by Abu layth. Another Qulliam link to abu layth. More about this on another post inshallah
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 12th May 2016 10:31
www.quilliamfoundation.org/press/the-sunday-times-front-p...

So an anti-isis fatwa by the promoter of secularism, evolution and hardcore deviant who has mocked Islam Usama Hasan is signed by abu layth. Why give credibility to qulliam and usama hasan? Why not write his own fatwa on isis and sign it or sign the other fatwas against isis but instead sign a fatwa by qulliam and Usama. Seeing his links to Rashad Ali of the Qulliam foundation and then to Usama hasan surely abu layth must answer these questions. He raves on about apostacy blaming deobandis for it but why not look at people like Qulliam/Henry Jackson society who are pushing islamaphobia through the media and their contacts in government and thus probably resulting in some poor souls despairing and apostating. Why not tackle Qulliam instead of focusing his energies on deobandis?

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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 12th May 2016 10:42
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11413815/Police-chief-i...

This is the defence piece by Andrew Gilligan probably the most Islamphobic journalist around.

Some interesting parts from above article

Police also told the school that one of their part-time teachers, Nahiem Ajmal, was in his spare time a key figure locally in the Home Office’s counter-extremism programme Prevent.


So Abu Layth was working with prevent.

Instead of teaching in the school check what abu layth was up to. Is this ethical from a non-muslim perspective that instead of teaching kids he is doing his spy work

Park View managers asked Insp Williams for evidence that he had carried out his Home Office duties in school hours so that they could sack him.

Inspector Williams handed over several pages detailing Mr Ajmal’s work with young people at risk of extremism.


Abu layth was busy doing the following instead of teaching

This included confidential reports submitted by Mr Ajmal on his clients, including what they had done, their initials and where they lived, allowing the school to identify them.

One entry said he “had been carrying a weapon. Defused the situation over the phone, then went in. [The client was] quite unruly, began Taliban/extremist rhetoric again.”


The last situation sounds like most schools from inner city areas where kids carry weapons. Instead typical that abu layth has to link it to the Taliban. lol.

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