Achieving Sunni Theological Unity

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 26th February 2016 10:45

The solution to the issue for any Muslim is 2-3 simple steps:

I am a Muslim and my loyalty is to Allah (SWT) and His Rasool (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)
The past Ulama were better then me and may Allah (SWT) reward them abunduntaly for their efforts and forgive their mistakes (Ameen)

The Salafi/Sunni rhetoric is based on producing text from someone in the past and holding a current Muslim responsible for "their words and actions" and asking to either exonerate them for the text or explain if they back it. This has done untold damage in our communities with online and in person interactions.

How many sites are there with text and words of Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) and scans and Deobandees are challenged to explain it? Then there are sites with text and words of Shaykh (Maulana) Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwee (RA) and scans and Barelwees are challenged to explain it.

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 26th February 2016 13:09

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Thank you for your kind words. May Allah bless us all.

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 26th February 2016 13:13

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I have sent you a message on your blog. I could not really understand the justification of Yazeed being an acceptable ruler. Maybe you can educate me more inshallah

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 26th February 2016 13:29

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You've hit the nail on the head. There is simply no need to transfer the baggage of the Subcontinent here. We are facing massive attacks on our Deen in the west and we really have to prioritise defending our this than utilising vast amounts of our time amd resources in defending our maslaks and 'speculative-
controversial' beliefs (as I put it in the article). Here we have people questioning the existence of Allah, saying our Deen is barbaric and I cannot repeat the things they say about Nabi (saw)

, and yet not enough of our Ulema can academically and articulately answer these objections. Don't get me wrong, that's not to say there are no answers, and there are gems out there who can really put these critics in their places (and I do have contact with some of them, alhamdulillah) but our side of the story needs to get out there and this can never happen if our talents and resources are spent in 'speculative -controversial' debates.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 26th February 2016 13:32

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Ok, I will have a look in sha Allah.

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 29th February 2016 05:53

Assalamu Alaykum,

Going through this thread, and getting to know about the muslim mindset of the west (specially UK), i have a few humble requests to make.

One, i don't think talking about deobandi aqaaid is bringing extra baggage from east to west. HAQ shall remain HAQ, even in Antartica. For example, if i am a mufti, and i am living in Brazil, and someone asks me whether Rasoolullah (SAWW) had the knowledge of five and knowledge of unseen, i will reply that no he (SAWW) did not! What has that got to do with deobandi/pakistani/indian extra baggage or hazrat worship? There are so many ahadeeth of Rasoolullah (SAWW) which say that ONLY ONE jamaat will remain on HAQ, till the arrival of Mehdi (RA). I follow deobandi akabireen, because i think that their interpretation of Islam is the closest to Sahaba and Salaf. I admire them based on academic excellence and not because of blind taqleed. So i am still loyal to Allah (SWT) and Rasoolullah (SAWW), but i am also grateful to deobandi akabireen for reviving many departments of deen and bringing islam to me in its purest form.

Two, i have noticed the trend in muslim youth of the UK, that they openly start criticizing the deobandi akabireen. Now i see salafi influences here. On one hand, they will call Mufti Taqi Usmani (DB) "Shaykhul Islam", and in the very next sentence they will harshly criticize him for digital photography. Disagreement over a fiqhi issue is one thing, but there is always a nicer way of saying things. We disagree with Imam Shafi (RA), but not even once in my madressah studies, have i heard a hanafi teacher of mine saying some harsh stuff about him. And this gets more interesting, that whenever there is a need for a fatwa, or getting bayt, or tableegh, the muslim (deobandi) youth will always turn to Maulana Yusuf Motala (DB), or Mufti Kamaluddin (DB) or Dewsbury markaz. They don't want to be tagged "deobandi", and they don't want to leave the deobandi roots either. And our akaabir openly admitted to being hardcore deobandis.

Third, whenever there is a debate about some aqeedah or fiqh issue, there is a argument presented that islam is being attacked in the west, and people are going murtad, and ulema are still busy in minor issues. This argument is presented by those, who have very limited knowledge and muta'la'a, and are unaware of muslim history. There are 6 departments of deen (jihad, ilm, sulook, khilafat, tableegh, refuting the batil sects), and all have been going in parallel for the last 1400 years. Indulging yourself in either one of the 6 paths, doesn't mean that you are neglecting the others. All 6 lead you to Allah. For example, there have been some huge ulema and mashaykh who have dedicated themselves totally to khatme-nabuwwat cause. Will you accuse them of not implementing khilafat? Just take a look at our fuqaha and muhadiseen, and almost all of them refuted the batil sects. Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal (RA) did munazaras with mu'tazila ulema, and refuted them, and as a result he saw Allah (SWT) without any hijab. Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) refuted khawarij. Now no one said, that Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) should do jihad himself instead of refuting khawarij.

Four, if noman ali khan is surviving without a tag, then it is fine for him. But for becoming a good Aalim/Mufti, you just can not stand in a middle. You must have solid academic background, and you must align yourself with a group of Ulema.

Wallahu A'lam.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 29th February 2016 06:10

Assalamu Alaykum,

Five, this assumption that Ulema have no choice but to tow the line is again not correct. There are some major 8-10 issues currently within the deobandi circles, and many Ulema have differed from the akabireen. But this disagreement is based on academic research, and not some emotional stuff. The Ulema who have differed have not been labelled heretic or whatever, and still remain "deobandis". But like i said, there is always a nicer way of saying things. I hope no one minds, but the muslim brothers of the west are too rude and too straightforward.

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 29th February 2016 07:56

Interesting discussion, while i agree that the cultural stuff from subcontinent or middle east should not be brought to the west. But this doesnt mean we become all hippy and jolly and pretend nothing happened, when something does happen in the name of deen in front of us.

So i agree we dont need to bash barelvis per say, but we need to teach , preach and warn against any creativeness done within the deen. Our focus should be addressing the issues and matters, we shouldn't bother about which maslak's name or jammat.

This ties in to maybe what the OP is suggesting in a way. That we bring the common man to the main aqaid and practices of Islam. And in this process whatever creativeness done in deen needs to be shot down, so be it.

And Sound ulema need to do this. Being in west doesnt mean we compromise on the truthfull teachings of the deen. What is biddah is biddah and needs to be identified. What we shouldnt waste too much time in is labeling people and forming enmity with groups. Keep the focus on the issues and matters, and educate the masses on those matters.

This strategy has always worked and such ulema or speakers gain swift attention within masses aswell. Mufti Menk is a good example. Also new generation of salafi scholars have learnt this art.

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 29th February 2016 08:15

archive.org/stream/AhleSunnatWalJamaatByAllamaSyedSuleman...

Author: Shaykh (Maulana) Syed Sulaiman Nadwi (RA)

Page: 43/Paragrpah 2

Allahu-Akbar! How many veils have been put on the reality of Islam!!! Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) considered it suficient for someone to point to the sky for their Islam while we don't consider someone as a Muslim if he doesn't believe (and testifies to) each and every principle of Nasafi (sequentially)

Bottom line is that Islam is simple, somewhere people got involved and made it so complicated and then insisted on their philosophy being only true Islam...

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 1st March 2016 01:23

As-Saif wrote:

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The problem with this approach is that it doesn't solve anything, because just as you claim cetrain beliefs of other groups to be Bid'ah under the fervour of following Haq (even if you don't actively go around looking to criticise other groups, as you suggest), they will say the same about certain beliefs of yours and we'll be in a situation no different to the one we are in now. So I don't see how this would end the disputes.

The solution I have detailed, I believe, finds a way of being on the Aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnat in a manner that is sufficient and worthy according to all the current major claimiants to Sunnism, and under such conditions there cannot be any disputes, in sha Allah.

The division starts when groups (whether they be Barelwis, Deobandis or Salafis) start to push aqaa'id that are beyond the essential ones needed to be Ahl al-Sunnat (regardless of whther they are right or wrong) and which other groups have an issue with and this is what we mean by cultural baggage. Who said to do tawassul through the dead is necessary? Or that Wahdat al-Wujood is necessary? If someone doesn't accept these, can you excommunicate them from Ahl al-Sunnah? Never. So these aqaa'id are not needed for someone to be Sunni in the first place, so don't push them in public when other groups have an issue with them. All this does is create disunity so just leave them out. It's not going to affect your Akhirah if you drop them. But disputing with your Muslim brothers over non-ncessary issues to the degree that we do, I guarentee, will affect your Akhirah, so be more concerned about this than defending beliefs like tawassul through the dead and Wahdat al-Wujood, which you can do without. The same goes for Hazir-Nazir, Noor-Bashar, etc from the Barelwi side and taking the dhahir meanings for the Attributes of Allah from the Salafi side and Ta'weel for the Asharis.

Abu_Bilal, your post is too long to make any comments on right now and you've brought up a lot of unrelated issues, so when I have a chance, I'll try to give my thoughts but it may take a while.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 1st March 2016 04:23

See, this will all be on a case by case issue. Yes some issues can be just ignored , but then there will always be issues that will always remain in the very center. You cannot turn a blind eye. What needs to be done, is to educate the ulema how you deal with them, and how you convey and educate the masses regarding them. So to instill this attitude, that "Apna Maslak choro nai, aur doosray ka maslak chayro nai" ( Don't leave your path, and don't disturb other people on their path).

Teach your children,loved ones, and your students that why we dont follow Hazir Nazir, why we dont call Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani to help, when such notions are out there and people get to see them. But also teach them that some of our brothers do this, they understand things a little different, so we live and let live.

Yes, when the time arrives when the issues are not there anymore, then the talk is over. For example, We dont teach or learn as layman what Jahmiyya is, what Mutazila is, because these issues are not there in the public domain anymore. Neither we have organized Jahmi's out there, or organized Mutazilis out there, teaching and preaching their way. Hence, you dont see ulema addressing their issues from their mimbars in the masajid.

So case by case, in each community it would have to be analyzed, what issues are prevalent and what are not. Then, with the proper adab, teach and educate your audience. Teach them priorities, communal harmony, and the adab of disagreeing.

No doubt, as wise men say ,you bury some of the fitnas by just not talking and speaking about them. So yes, analyze and see what are those type and deal with them accordingly. But what needs to be taken head on, then address it with the right way and adab.

Now i see you are saying, that you want to be the catalyst of this movement, that we wipe out all the secondary hair splitting theological issues, which are not from the dhururiyat e deen, from the face of this planet. I wish you good luck my brother, if Allah makes it happen at your hands, then i give my hand in allegiance to your, but until then, i would say please propagating from the very class rooms of our madaris and the mimbars of our masajid, that we deal with differences in a non-hostile manner, but we definitely deal with notions that need to be addressed.

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 1st March 2016 04:50

Quote:

There are so many ahadeeth of Rasoolullah (SAWW) which say that ONLY ONE jamaat will remain on HAQ, till the arrival of Mehdi (RA). I follow deobandi akabireen, because i think that their interpretation of Islam is the closest to Sahaba and Salaf.

Maulana Abu Bilal, so it seems you are saying that in this time the one Jamat That is on Haq is the jamat that follows the Deobandi Akabir.

Can you briefly point out the main beliefs or teachings unique to the Deobandi Akabir which differentiates them from other 'jamats' and result in them being on the haq?

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 1st March 2016 14:40

Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said that there will be a J-A-M-A-A-T on Haq, he didn't say that there will be a S-E-C-T in a particular part of the world in any Hadeeth neither did anyone interpret the Hadeeth in this manner.

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd March 2016 02:22

Unfortunately, it seems as though my message is not getting across clearly enough so I’ll give this one more go...

Abu_Bilal, I am not saying that you should remain silent if someone asks you about the Ilm a-Ghaib issue or anything similar. As I have already stated, the problem is not so much with you saying it should not be adopted as it is with, in this case, Barelwis arguing that it should. So I don’t see what issue you could possibly have here. There is no onus on you to accept what you perceive to be Bid’ah. The problem on this issue would be with the Barelwis pushing an unnecessary belief (regardless of how correct they may deem it to be). So it would be ‘Barelwi baggage’ in this sense and nothing to do with compromising Haq on your part (but mind you, Deobandis have their own baggage, like Wahdat al-Wujood and other issues that can be analogised upon the problems that Deobandis have with certain Barelwi aqaa’id, such as Ilm al-Ghaib, etc and therefore, similarly done away with).

On your point about one group remaining on Haq, are you honestly telling me that Nabi (saw)

was specifically referring to Deobandis? I can assure you that he (saw)

was not. He was in fact referring to Ahl al-Sunnat wa al-Jama’at and before you claim a monopoly to this title, the Aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnat is simple and straight forward, whereas the ‘identifying beliefs’ of Deobandis (or Barelwis and Salafis for that matter) go beyond it, so being Ahl al-Sunnat cannot by definition be predicated on being Deobandi. I am not making a judgement on whether Deobandis are Sunni or not, just that the latter does not depend on the former.

Your point about working on different fronts simultaneously (the six areas of Deen you mentioned) is an obvious observation and has nothing to do with mutala’a (and I felt it quite offensive and condescending of you to state what you did here). Yes we should be working on all fronts but some have fronts have priority, like defending the Deen as compared to defending one’s unnecessary maslak, and if the latter is being given priority at the expense of the former then things need to change. I don’t know if you live in the west or not, but more and more Scholars are beginning to adopt this approach over here and for good reason.

The other points you mentioned are not relevent (though there is much to say on them) so I'll skip those.

As-Saif, you wrote, “Yes some issues can be just ignored, but then there will always be issues that will always remain in the very center. You cannot turn a blind eye.” Can you please mention what these ‘centre’ points are and how my method will not resolve them in an amicable way? Then you also wrote, “so we live and let live” which completely opposes what I quoted from you above, so your point doesn’t seem very coherent.

“communal harmony, and the adab of disagreeing.” This isn’t possible here because these are issues of Haq and batil in their eyes and if there’s anything we’ve learned from Deobandi, Barelwi and Salafi disputes it’s that there is no love lost between them.

"Apna Maslak choro nai, aur doosray ka maslak chayro nai" – I couldn’t disagree with this more. Firstly, it’s just a way of maintaining the status quo when it’s the status quo that’s the problem in the first place. We need to find a way of uniting the Ummah, not maintain divisions. It also seems like somewhat of an oxymoron when considering the dynamics of sectarianism. When you practice “Apna Maslak choro nai”, it necessarily entails provoking the other sects so “aur doosray ka maslak chayro nai" is simply not possible given the first half of the statement. Consider that both you and Abu_Bilal have said Haq is Haq, Bid’ahs should be opposed, we can’t turn a blind eye and the people need to be warned against batil, etc, etc.

“you want to be the catalyst of this movement”. I have no such ambitions. All I’m doing is presenting an idea. If someone else wants to take over, be my guest.

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd March 2016 05:41

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I still feel that uniformity has seldom been achieved in the ummah at any time in history of our academics or public sphere. What is possible is keeping our selves united and that is only through tolerance and sincerity.

Sencondary nature academic issues and divisions i doubt will ever sieze to exist. Because our tradition has these different tastes within it. I still propose we need to enhance this education of how to deal with it. Stay united even if you cant become uniform.

From myside i have not much to add anymore. You are sincere and May Allah help you whatever khair you are working towards. Ameen wasalam.

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Achieving Sunni Theological Unity

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