Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Saathies - The Source of guidance?

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
abuzayd2k
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,225
Brother
125
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2016 07:42
Split away from this Topic www.muftisays.com/forums/86-qa-support--fiqh/10791-questi...

ibn Ismail wrote:
View original post


Jazak'Allah brother.

I hope it would also depend what good deed or type worship is being referred, and to what extend one boasted. I can't see how a moment of stupidity can result in a cycle of good deeds being wiped clean.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,901
Brother
342
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2016 11:42
Imam Ali wrote:
View original post


Why can't this person seek forgiveness and make Taubah instead of getting into theoretical discussions about moments of lapses?

Isn't it easier to make Taubah and wipe even the possibility of losing good deeds?
Posted via the Muftisays Android App
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,225
Brother
125
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2016 14:22
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post


Asalamualaikum brother Muadh.

I hope you're well.

The brother in the example is someone, I know. He's been told by saathis that once the thoughts of riya have been entertained his deeds have been nilled, and replaced with sin. Tawbah would simply forgive the sin, but the good deeds are lost permanently because he has committed minir shirk.

So, that can prove to feel quite demoralising knowing you put in a lot of hard work, and money. However, I'll pass on the link that brother ibn Ismail has posted.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,901
Brother
342
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 6th February 2016 15:07
Imam Ali wrote:
View original post


W-Salam,

He has a fundamental and structural problem in his life if his source of knowledge is "Saathees" instead of sound evidence.

If he doesn't change his tactics, he may get worse then being demoralised.

Send him this thread and if he continues on his Path of trusting "Saathees" he would have no one to blame but himself for his depression.
Posted via the Muftisays Android App
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Like x 1Agree x 3
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,225
Brother
125
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2016 15:02
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post


He thinks it's a sound source because their saathis who've spent 4 months in Jamat on many occasions.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Disagree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,901
Brother
342
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 7th February 2016 15:48
Imam Ali wrote:
View original post


IF he is involved with the work THEN he should know that it is AGAINST Usool for his "Saathees" to be advising him in this manner.

IF his "Saathees" are involved in the work they should also know that its AGAINST Usool to be advising him.

The REMIT and SCOPE of their work and discussions should be within the FRAMEWORK of 6 points as dictated by Maulana Ilyas Saheb (RA) from 1940's and affirmed by all subsequent Shura until 2016.

IF this brother knows this and STILL decides to go against principles and THEN get depressed based on wrong source and wrong answer then surely there is no one else to blame.

All in all this is a fine example of "own goal", if the Brother doesn't know the Usool and his "Saathees" then the matter needs to be referred to the local Shura for them to FIX a structurally flawed and fundamental issue.

Giving this Brother answer to this query won't solve future problems.

Jzk
Posted via the Muftisays Android App
report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0Like x 1Agree x 1Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
27,561
Brother
9,601
abu mohammed's avatar
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 8th February 2016 09:42
Split away from this Topic www.muftisays.com/forums/86-qa-support--fiqh/10791-questi... as discussions in the Q&A are not permitted. (op updated with link too)

The Q&A section does not permit discussion of question and answers unless further clarification is required.

The original topic is still open for more answers from the Ulama, otherwise please continue here with what I would call a very dangerous subject.

Another danger that has crept into tablighi jamaat - because the original foundations are not followed, hence giving the work a bad name and creating egoistic's within the group.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,011
Brother
881
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 8th February 2016 14:25
No tablighi saathi no matter how long he has spent is an authority on any issue. The same is true for the sufiya. No matter how much zikr you have done, whose suhba you have kept keep away from fiqh. Leave it to the people of knowledge.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Agree x 2Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
271
Brother
235
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 8th February 2016 17:32

some thoughts i had...i don't mean to argue...

 

1) whenever i show off or a feeling of pride comes to mind, i immediately make dua "Ya Allah, don't wipe out these good deeds, You are too Raheem and Kareem, please forgive me instead!"

2) bro Imam Ali, you should direct your questions, especially those of this nature, to Ulama you know irl. preferably Ulama who are down-to-earth and know their stuff. Otherwise, you can email someone like Mufti Ebrahim Salejee who is a competent Alim of shariah, a respected shaykh of Tariqah and easily accessible by email. There are only a dozen regular posters on MuftiSays, and how of them have knowledge and understanding?

3) I have learnt this "good deeds getting wiped out by a little showing off" concept from Ulama and Mashayikh myself. so why is the saathi to blame when he's simply saying what authentic Ulama say and write?

4) Never have I heard that it against the usool to advise a person. Never have I heard that all of our discussions should be within the 6 points. I have learnt that while in jamat and gusht then keep your talks within the 6 points. The brother spoke to a (tabligi) saathi at some point in his life and heard about this "showing off" concept...so what? are tabligi saathis never allowed to speak to another Muslim brother unless he gives him a 6 poiints bayan?

A recent convert in my masjid has been for 40 days...sometimes he speaks good of ISIS and it scares me to think what he must be learning about them...should I not advise him because this topic is outside the 6 points? then if he does something stupid, who will be to blame?

Alhamdulillah, I learnt about many extremely important deeni issues from tabligi saathis and ulama in jamat. fiqh, aqeedah, current affairs. The Imam, a Mufti, refused to speak to me about Isha timings for example but I learnt about it from saathis.

5) This topic does fall under the 5th quality, tasheeh-e-niyyat (correcting one's intention), or ikhlas as some people say.

6) Usools are guidelines. Not shari' ahkam. We should not raise it to such a level where we point at other brothers and single them out for abandoning usool. This is a tactic from Shaytan devised to disunite the brothers.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,901
Brother
342
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 8th February 2016 20:10

kanzoorbhai wrote:
View original post

You have never heard that queries pertaining to Shariah and above and beyond 6 points should be directed to Ulama and not to "Saathees"? Where did you spent 4 months???

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abu_Bilal's avatar
Offline
Pakistan
196
Brother
268
Abu_Bilal's avatar
#11 [Permalink] Posted on 9th February 2016 04:05
Assalamu Alaykum,

Being a hardcore tableeghi myself in my early days, it is a harsh reality that this noble work has now been hijacked by "jaahil saathies". And this "ghulow" (over exaggerating the work of tableegh) is now seriously damaging other works of deen.

Even akabir ulema like Mufti Taqi Usmani (DB) have started condemning this attitude openly in public. It is really sad to see that fitnah has spread in this great work started by Maulana Ilyas (RA). Most of the people who spend 4 months don't even respect Ulema, let alone asking Ulema about masail and attending their lectures.

Maybe it is lack of taqwa, as pointed out by Maulana Saad (DB). We really need to cry to ask Allah to remove all these fitnas and bring back the work to the noble principles as laid down by Maulana Ilyas (RA).
report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0Agree x 2Winner x 2
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,225
Brother
125
#12 [Permalink] Posted on 9th February 2016 11:10
kanzoorbhai wrote:
View original post


Asalamualaikum akhi.

I thought that too. If the saathi being told what Ulema have told him/them then it's surely, alright? However, he's been at logger-heads with some of them when he's challenged them a little by asking them to elaborate or asking for evidence.

I've forward his question to Mufti Mohmammad ibn Adam, Mufti Ismail ibn Musa Menk, and Mufti Ebrahim Salejee.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
27,561
Brother
9,601
abu mohammed's avatar
#13 [Permalink] Posted on 9th February 2016 11:25
Imam Ali wrote:
View original post

The response might be correct in many aspects, but at the end of the day, they are not scholars.

I can say VERY VERY confidently that "Saathies" who have spent 4 months in Jamaat, cannot even pray Salah according to their school of thought. They don't know Fiqh, and Aqeedah is a whole new topic.

Just hearing lectures and reading Fadhaail e a'maal doesn't make one knowledgeable, for that, they need to study.

It's a shame that even elders fall in this trap and start to teach what they have limited knowledge of.

It's this sort of attitude that gives tablighi jamaat a bad name and that's why the Salaafi's eat them up for breakfast and digest them in seconds.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+0 -0Agree x 3
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,225
Brother
125
#14 [Permalink] Posted on 9th February 2016 11:34
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


There are exceptions, akhi.

I've come across a few who're quite knowledgable i.e. students of knowledge. They'll provide an answer then refer you to a qualified scholar for clarification.

Is this acceptable in the world of Tablighi Jamat?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,011
Brother
881
#15 [Permalink] Posted on 9th February 2016 12:35
Imam Ali wrote:
View original post

Brother it is not acceptable in the tablighi jamaat. In tablighi jamaat fiqh questions and other complex issues are refferred to local ulema. Tablighi jamaat is a great work. In the UK I can state that it is probably amongst the best group for awaam to be involved in. You don't go in tabligh or join their effort to learn fiqh or aqeedah in detail. You will not learn elaborate ways to combat salafis. This is not the job of the tablighi jamaat. The job of the tablighi jamaat is confined to basic deen which is what we actually need. For more complex issues one needs to go to the ulema.

Tablighi jamaat is good at what they are doing. Let them stick to it and we should all join them. To learn fiqh, aqeedah then visit your local scholar. I don't think it is more complex then that.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Winner x 1
back to top