DAWAHMAN ImranibnMansur and Imam Asim on Mawlid

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 19th January 2016 12:43

The recent feud between Dawahman ImranibnMansur and Imam Asim has been interesting. It would be good if people can share their views on this. I will attempt to make some points;

1. Dawahman like many others like him started in a good way. It is clear from his antics that the fame has got to him. He should have stuck to his non controversial dawah instead of getting into aqeedah and fiqh issues. This is a reminder to myself and other laymen. We should stick to basics of deen and leave the complex issues to the ulema.
2. In my opinion Imam Asim despite our many disagreements with the brelvi brothers is completely right in putting ImranibnMansur in place. However I do wonder why Imam Asim is actually debating with Dawahman on mawlid. Even according to brelvis it is mustahab to do mawlid.
3. I liked the message of Maulana Asrar Rashid the brelvi alim who said that such debates on mawlid are pointless as debate is only on the fundamentals of religion.
4. It was worth watching the salafi and brelvi daees on both sides. The salafi speakers were full of pride and arrogance. To those who have seen the ulema and pious people of the ummah the salafis would be the total opposite of that. Interestingly zulfiqar memon was there. He was quoting the ahle hadith scholars of India. It seems like the separation of the ahle hadith of the indopak and the salafis of the UK which was happening in the UK seems to be reversing due to people like zulfiqar memon and more importantly people like wasiullah abbas who has managed to become the mufti of Makkah.
5. Imam Asim has conducted himself in a far superior manner to his counterpart Dawahman. The only possible negative point about Maulana Asim was that he seems to have been delaying his response slightly. This is understandable as such things are not to be rushed but since he gave a challenge he should have kept his word. It seems like there have been some misunderstandings and miscommunication on the part of Imam Asim but nothing sinister like how Dawahman is making it out to be.
6. I am surprised that these 2 people have like close to 300k followers between them on places like facebook, twitter etc. The other brelvi alim saqib shaami has a huge number the last time I checked. Deobandi ulema should be utilising social media but in a more professional manner.
7. Deobandis should stay out of this issue.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 19th January 2016 14:59

Was following dawahman on instagram but I soon unfollowed for some reason. There's many others like him who have many followers in their thousands. The youth are attracted to their style of getting the point across....but speakers themselves dont know when and where to draw the line....there is one youngster who has numerous followers he has opened himself to questions and answers and has requested all followers to freely dm him.... he barely looks in his twenties. I find this very shocking.

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ربي زدني علما
(My Lord! Increase me in Knowledge)

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 19th January 2016 15:15

Although I posted it else where Here is a strong but thinly veiled rebuke by the Salaafi Scholar Abu Eesa, towards Dawah Man, on Face Book although he did not mention him by name most of his face book readers understood who he was addressing.

Abu Eesa Nimatullah.

4 January at 05:59 ·

The number of Muslims who don't stay in their lane, speaking about things they are not qualified on, or ready for, is growing fast; it's like a viral breakout, a disease which has become endemic amongst us.
Social media really has become a fitnah for them. It gave a platform to those who should not be on it.
Perhaps they were saved from clubbing or dating or doing drugs etc, and instead started "practising" only to become addicted to another drug which is even worse: speaking without knowledge, "educating" without being educated, "warning" when ignorant, typing because they simply can, and so on.

Once one is bitten by the bug of fame and attention, it is near impossible to go back. You think you can start talking about usul because of a few classes you take, and you think you can talk about bid'ah because you can pronounce the letter 'ayn - in fact, they always seem to have a great letter 'ayn, right? - and you think you can teach when you are wholly ignorant of the Shari'ah, and you think you can try and explain matters when you don't even know the Arabic language, let alone all the sciences that follow.

Is this status about YOU? Yes it is. I don't need to mention one name as a flag-bearer of this disease when I aiming this at 50 of you who try and do the same but at varying levels of success. If you're thinking "it's me he's talking about", then you'd be right. If you're feeling paranoid right now, you should be. Because I *am* talking about you. Yes I've read your statements. Yes I also have a personal account on social media too and see and read what everyone else is talking about on my friends and liked lists. You shouldn't have gone there in the first place. This is what happens. If you rise like a balloon, full of gas, then expect someone to pop you when you talk nonsense or try to come across as someone you're not and mislead people. Is that me judging you? Sure thing. Hatin' on you? Absolutely. Forcing you to only stick to what you're good at. Correct.

You wanted to give da'wah? Your keeping silent for a good few years will be the best da'wah you will ever give. You want to be an activist? Get off FB and actually get active and help someone. We don't need any more heroes online. The world doesn't need you. Believe me, it doesn't. Your style isn't so new, and your approach isn't so unique so as to justify the masses being exposed to an ignoramus. There is a huge difference between sharing content from qualified people and reminding folks that way - a great and encouraged thing - and you trying to do reminding from your own pocket and not knowing what you're talking about.

And sometimes, you *will* know what you're talking about, but you should remain silent. Just to learn the system. Just to learn the skill of patience and humility. It will serve you well later when it is time for you to lead.

I studied for nearly seven years - that's full time, not part time classes, and that's proper studying, not "practising" and living as a Muslim - before my teacher told me to go public with da'wah. My mouth and my fingers were quiet during that time. I studied for another seven before I had the belief and support from my teachers that I should have an opinion that is worth listening to. It's taken me another five years to realise that opinion isn't worth much at all, wa Allahu'l-Musta'an.
Son, just stay in your lane. Please. For your own sake.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 19th January 2016 16:02

Ensuring the Proper Effect of a Truthful Word
.
Shaykh Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani (db)

Hazrat Maulana [Shabbir Ahmad Usmani] رضي الله عنه used to say that if Haqq [a truthful word], in a truthful [proper] manner [of conveying], with a truthful [sincere] intention, is said, then it will never cause fitna. But there are these three conditions, first is that what is being said is the truth, second is that the intention is correct, and the third is that the manner [of conveying the message] is proper.

So if you happen to see anywhere that due to speaking the truth some fitna is arising, or any dispute or argument, then know that from amongst these 3 conditions a condition was unfulfilled: either the message was not the truth; or the niyyah was improper, as the message was the truth but was said with a wrong intention. [For example] the purpose was to show-off or to make oneself be seen as higher, or to lower another; so the niyyah was wrong. Or if the niyyah was also correct then the method [by which the message was conveyed] was incorrect.

If the method was correct, the niyyah was correct, and the message was the truth then it would not have caused fitna. Eventually at one time or another, [the message] would have had its effect but it would not have created fitna.

Translated (from Urdu) from a talk entitled Maulana Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi: Lessons from His Life delivered in England on July 30, 2000 by Shaykh Mufti Taqi Usmani (db) at a symposium to commemorate the life of Shaykh Abul Hasan Ali an-Nadwi رضي الله عنه.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 19th January 2016 17:31

Sultan ul Awliya Shaykh Abdul Qadir Gilani (Rahimullah) The following quotes are from him (Rahimullah), pity we have neglected his teachings. They are taken from a book called Jila al Khatir

* O young man, while your faith is still weak you have to be concerned with your own affairs. Do not be concerned with your family, your neighbors, and the people of your town and county. When your faith has strengthened, come out to your family and children and then to the creatures. Do not emerge to them before protecting yourself with the armor of piety, covering the head of your heart with the helmet of faith, having in your hand the sword of the oneness of God and in your quiver arrows of answering the Caller, riding the horse of good guidance, and learning the art of attack and retreat, fight and thrust. If you attack the enemies of the True One (mighty and glorified is He) at this point, support and aid will come to you from your six directions: right and left, above and below, and in front and behind. You will snatch creatures from the hands of Satan and carry them to the door of the True One (mighty and glorified is He). The person who attains to this spiritual station will have the veils removed from the eyes of his heart. Whenever he turns to one of his six directions, his sight penetrates the veils and nothing remains screened from it. When he raises the head of his heart, he sees the Throne and the heavens, and when he lowers his head in reflection, he sees the levels of the earth and all its inhabitants of jinn, human beings, and wild beasts. Once you have attained to this spiritual station, you can summon the creatures to the door of Allah (mighty and glorified is He). Before this happens, you can achieve nothing. If you call the creatures when you are not at the door of the Creator, your call to them will be disastrous to you. Whenever you move, you go down; whenever you seek promotion, you get demoted. You have no clue about the righteous. You are tongue‑wagging with no heart, an outward with no inward, a public life with no private life, and a tour with no attack. Your sword is made of wood and your arrows are matchsticks. You are a coward with no courage. The smallest arrow can kill you and send you to the Day of Resurrection. O Allah, strengthen our practice of religion, faith, and bodies with your nearness and “give us good in this world and good in the hereafter and protect us from the torment of the Fire.”

* O young man, you are nothing other than a lower self, natural inclination, and passion! You spend time with strange women and young boys then you say: “I am not interested in them!” You are a liar. Neither the Law nor reason agree with what you say. You add fire to fire and firewood to firewood, so there is no doubt that the house of your religion and faith will catch fire. The Law’s disapproval of this behavior is universal, exempting no one.

Acquire faith, knowingness of Allah (mighty and glorified is He), and strength of nearness first and then open up a clinic and be a physician for the creatures, acting on behalf of the True One (mighty and glorified is He). Woe to you! How can you touch and handle snakes when you have no expertise in snake handling and have not taken the antidote? You are blind, so how can you cure the eyes of people? You are mute, so how can you teach people? You are ignorant, so how can you practice religion? How can the person who knows no usher bring people to the door of the king? You have no right to utter a single word until you experience a resurrection and witness wonders.

Be sincere in your actions; otherwise, do not lay claims. Once you have cut off all relations and closed the doors and ways, the direction of the True One and His nearness will open to you, the way to Him will be paved for you, and the finest, best, and noblest things will come to you. This world is ephemeral, evanescent, and vanishing. It is the abode of tribulations, afflictions, grieves, and cares. No one will have a perfect life in this world, especially if he is a wise man. As the saying goes, “the wise man who remembers death will never find the delight of his eye in this world.” As for the person who has a lion whose mouth is wide open standing next to him, how can he settle and how can his eyes drop off to sleep? O unaware ones, the mouth of the grave is wide open, the mouths of the lion and the snake of death are wide open! The executioner of the sultan of destiny is carrying the sword in his hand, waiting for the command. Only one in a million is in this state of wisdom — wakeful and free of unawareness. The vigilant person has renounced everything, saying: “O my God, You know what I want! You have favored your creatures with these plates, but I wish for a morsel from the plate of Your nearness. I want something from a thing that belongs to You.”

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 19th January 2016 23:59

such sad pathetic states us muslims are in. seriosuly makes me feel ashemd to me muslim sometimes when i read these stuff. seriously havnt muslims got anything better to do? we are getting slaughtered all around the world, got a racist islamaphobe PM ( im sure you're all aware of his latest remarks about niqab and learning english) have a very strong anti muslim narrative going on in the uk via media and certain individual yet all we can do is talk about mawlid? laa howla wala qoowata.

we all go on about likes of umar رضي الله عنه yet lets face it no one actually wants to follow his footsteps or be like him. imagine you could enter the sacred chamber where rasoolullah (saw)

is buried i would feel so embarassed and ashmed to go there. what face will i show? we cant defnd islam or his honour or his dean but we have no hesitations in attacking one another. raza nadim of mpacuk said something which really sums up out conditions 'slaves only feel comfortable fighting fellow slaves but never the slave master'

before people say oh dawahman is salafi and asim is breawly i can assure you us deobandis are just as bad. just go on hanafi fiqh channel and inkofscholars. constant petty tit for tat refutations with salafis. u think david cameron or obama gives a monkeys if ur deo or salafi before they drop their bombs and makes anti muslim laws. we need to fix up. if only muslims and scholars showed the same passion for fighting against oppresion, injustice and kufr we wont need another umar رضي الله عنه and salahuddin رضي الله عنه. we can only bow how heads in shame. i just hope I live to see the day when islam rises and make dua Allah uses me for service of his dean and not for bickering about minor issues. (rant over)

make dua for me and the ummah. threads like these only depress me. our brothers and sisters are eating cats and grass in madiya and zabdaani yet we want to argue about milad and raf yadain and show our faces in front of rasoolullah ( saw) as if were some big shot sufis. i feel ashmed and shy to even go madinah any more. ya Allah forgive me for my shortcomings and let us live to see better days for islam and the ummah ameen

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2016 01:30

mkdon101 wrote:

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Shaykh Yasir Qadhis response.

A European Prime Minister has suggested that Muslim mothers who don't speak English may be a cause of radicalization in the Muslim community.
Such profundity! Truly, this thought never even crossed my mind, despite the fact that I have read numerous books on the subject, teach academic classes at my University on fundamentalism and radicalism, and have delivered many lectures on the topic. Hence, I must thank the Prime Minister for his ingenious and shrewd observation on the actual causes of radicalization.

For here I was, thinking that false invasions of other lands, mass genocides, tyrannical rulers throwing chemical weapons on their own peoples, drone warfare and the tens of thousands of innocents killed, political racism, societal ghettoization of Muslim communities, endemic Islamophobia coming straight from politicians, and the almost coordinated onslaught of demonizing the religion by the media, all played a primary role in radicalizing an already psychologically troubled teenager .

What a relief! The actual cause of jihadi radicalism seems to be that sinister auntie who cooks the best biryani in the community but can't order takeout pizza over the phone if her life depended on it (not that she'd ever need to, with the quality of food that she knows how to cook!!).
Thank you Mr. Prime Minister. I now know who the true threat is. (And it ain't that auntie....!)

PS. And of course, while the Prime Minister is prodding the Muslim community ever more, we have our brave knights in shining armor, who can't even speak Arabic nor have ever trained in the sciences of Islam, who believe that, at this sensitive time when our religion itself is under attack, they must launch internet wars and 'defend' the truth about secondary and tertiary issues (such as the mawlid), all the while feeding their own massive egos with more Facebook likes and Youtube videos, even as they divert the Ummah from truly defending the sanctity of Islam.

True knowledge is to know one's ignorance. I'm afraid those who bark the loudest typically display the shallowness of their own learning.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2016 09:48

mkdon101 wrote:

seriosuly makes me feel ashemd to me muslim

I wouldn't say that, ever. We can never be ashamed of being a Muslim, rather we should make Dua for those who are giving us a bad name or bad impression. Being associated with shameless people is one thing, but don't be ashamed of being a Muslim. If you find something to be ashamed of, understand that it is not of Islam :)

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2016 10:16

mkdon101 wrote:

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Very good point ya akhi.

The whole debate contingent should be air dropped in Syria where they find themselves surrounded by Basshar, Hizbullah, Iranian Shia Militia, Free Syrian Army, Jabhatul Nusra, Daesh, Russia, NATO, US.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2016 11:32

abu mohammed wrote:

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salam.

i would generally agree and also would say saying such things in certain circumstances can cause one to leave islam, however my audience was you guys ( fellow Muslims) and the context has more to do with how we behave which makes me ashamed as opposed to teachings of islam. however you are right and i should have chosen words more wisely, i was very angry and emotional reading the opening post. i haven't even followed the mawlid debate just heard about it but its enough to make my blood boil.

today in the news a 10yo had his house raided just because he had wrote he lived in a terrorist house when he meant terraced house. this is blatantly an attack on muslims yet where is the anger and passion? yet we can spend hours debating if we should say ameen loudly or go on milad. its a joke.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2016 11:33

salaam

to be fair this debate is not really a big thing and the only reason it seems bigger than it is, is due to facebook and twitter. the first i heard about it was on here. in the grand scheme of things its really not that big a deal and the vast majority of muslims have not heard about this debate and never will.

i understand there are other issues affecting the ummah, but i dont understand why people here have a problem with the issue of milad and the biddah and shirk surrounding it being debated. deobandis in the past have debated against milad and probably will in the future. so why do we have an issue with salafis debating it?

yes there are other important issues that need to be addressed, but that does not mean this issue is a waste of time. milad has all sorts of biddah and shirk surrounding it which can lead a person to jahannam and even kufr. is that not important?

and for those that think this debate is a waste of time, then isnt debating about this debate an even greater waste of time? isnt this thread a waste of time? maybe this thread and any mention of this debate should be deleted so we dont waste our time on something that is wasting time?

anyone want to waste more time replying to my waste of time comment in relation to a waste of time thread about a waste of time debate? :P

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 20th January 2016 12:18

xs11ax wrote:

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Its a question of priorities we as a muslim community are under siege. I would disagree everybody on social media has heard of it or been drawn into it even more people have been galvanised by this then the raids by Israel on Gaza last year since my time on internet I have not seen anything like it.

When the fitnah of Qadiyanis emerged in the sub-continent it was prioritised Ulemah despite their issues united on one platform to face that challenge.

On the flipside we have the History of Islamic Spain, when the Kuffar gathered their forces to exterminate Islam the muslims were sitting around literally discussing issues like Mawlid.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

As for the issue of Biddat and Shirk that takes place at Mawlid even the Barelvi Ulemah like Asrar Rashid have conceded that, and refuted it.

Fact is this issue has been debated for centuries, with no result except both groups remaining entrenched in their positions.

This issue is not just about Mawlid more pressingly it is about Internet Celebrity Culture, were individuals can attract thousands of follower whilst only having cursory knowledge of religious sciences.

We have Muslim Facebook Celebrities, Muslim twitter Celebrities, Muslim You tube celebrities, Muslim Forum celebrities this Cult of Celebrity is a major fitnah in itself.... You made a thread called Sub-Culture
some time back and this is an example of a Sub-culture emerging were ignoramuses are becoming Leaders.

Prior to the internet age neither Dawah Man nor Asim Hussain would have had much of following, neither are Scholars (Asim Hussain only did an 3 year abridged course at Madrassah he is not an Aalim ) . ... Whats more both seem to have sheep blindly willing to support every wrong thing they have said or done.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 21st January 2016 05:42

There is at least one point that we got to take note of. Whoever wins will be available in the market with renewed enthusiasm to create further nuisance not only for the losing side but us too.

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DAWAHMAN ImranibnMansur and Imam Asim on Mawlid

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