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How to convince someone for not joining IS?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 13th May 2015 06:43
السلام عليكم

I'm trying to convince a Malaysian brother to wake up from delusions of IS' Khilafat.

Problems are- he doesn't believe media information and 'Ulama who are not involved with any war, he knows plenty of information from IS sources, he heard from some real people and he started searching for truth but ended up believing what IS says.

Please suggest something.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 13th May 2015 07:40
Ws,

I think it's important to identify his reasons and understanding of it first. Find out what convinced him and why. That can then be addressed first which will put him on the defensive and in turn see things from a more detailed Shar'ee perspective.

"he doesn't believe media information" - very good
"and 'Ulama who are not involved with any war" - not good
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 13th May 2015 08:29
im no fan or supporter of IS but i disagree with Jinns final sentence. the biggest fitnah today is lack of ulema in the front line. im sorry but i wont listen to any scholar personally myself who talks about forign affairs/jihad if they themselves never even fired a bullet. otherwise be bad as these moderates who go around interpretting islam saying oh we dont need scholars to tell us how to pray or fast.

as for IS just ask the malaysian brother exactly why he thinks IS are good? tell him name one reputable scholars ( even those who are involved in jihad)

shaykh abu qatadah (HA) and shaykh maqdisi (HA) both have refuted IS and theses two are considered amongst the highest authority on jihad. also explain to him IS have done more harm to the syrians than good, prior to them coming along the muslims be it FSA or Juhbat an Nusra were making gaings taking over large territories until IS came and fought the mujaahideen. IS is just hype they have no intention of liberating muslims just to build a power base
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 13th May 2015 17:01

Black Turban wrote:
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  1. Do the Ulama need to be involved in an action in order to give a Fatwa on it? Is every Heart Surgeon has to be a Patient first or Heart Disease?
  2. Ulama involved in Jihad have alreay spoken about them, see above!
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 13th May 2015 19:32
I know technically it does NOT qualify as Jihad, but I wish the youth had the same enthusiasm about social work and community services.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 14th May 2015 02:20
Yasin wrote:
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He is actually a man who started practising after joining the effort of Tableegh. We spent time with a Jama'at 4 years back. That time we would discuss all types of Islamic affairs. He was also very concerned about deteriorating situations of Muslims. Nearly a month back he contacted me and expressed his intention. I sent him respected brother Muadh Khan's central mosque article (he didn't read I guess) and wrote some important points like how they fought other Islamic groups and created fitnah.

He is Alhamdulillaah very open minded and respect others' opinions. Yesterday we talked nearly for 2 hours. I tried to explain events from the initiation of Syrian war till now. He said that he wasn't claiming IS to be on 100% Haqq and was very sad seeing infighting among Muslim groups. He also said that every group had some problems but he was trying to sort out the group whose intention was broad and most important. IS' goals seemed most appropriate to him.

He suggested me to watch IS videos showing governing system in their territories. I understood that he was convinced by these videos. He (humbly) replied to my arguments by quoting from IS sources.

In conclusion, he is annoyed by biased media and assuming every news regarding IS as propaganda. So he is trying to know authentic information (from IS sources!). However, he is not going to join them quickly (Alhamdulillaah) because he has got some family problems due to father's death.

mkdon101 wrote:
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Yes I told him everything. But he believed IS propaganda. Perhaps they have videos about their scholars also. This brother said that he watched scholars from different countries working for IS. Even he saw a senior Afghan scholar among them. Actually he is not aware of caliber of Baghdadi's scholars or others who issues fatwa against IS.

Muadh_Khan wrote:
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He in fact respects 'Ulama as he is from Tablighee background. The reason why he doesn't believe non Jihadi 'Ulama's opinion regarding IS is (he thinks) they don't get correct information of what's really going on in the battle.

I'll inshallaah inform him about Jihadi 'Ulama's stance against IS. But I guess he has already read IS refutation of these rulings against them.

True Life wrote:
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Alhamdulillaah he is a sincere and nice guy. He realizes that doing something without thinking brings more harms than good and this is why he is trying to help his family as father died a month ago. He is planning to work for 2 years, collect money to assist family and himself and then make "Hijrah".
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 14th May 2015 07:52
He needs to read about Khawaraij. They didn't listen to the Sahaba because they thought they knew the (interpretation) of the Quraan better.

Ali (RA) removed the title of "Ameerul-Mumineen from his name so they said he must have now become "Ameerul-Kaafireen" because opposites are true.

First they wanted to fight and then they wanted to negotiate then they changed their mind etc etc etc.

Abdullah Ibn Abbas (RA) one of the most knowledgeable amongst the Sahaba were sent to them but many of them refused to trust and believe him.

Apply all of the above to ISIS, the ignorance, the arrogance, mistrust of Ulama, violence against Muslims is all there!
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 14th May 2015 17:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I totally agree. In fact IS' strategy is very strong. If a sincere Muslim selectively watches their videos of good treatment of people, refutations of 'Ulama's stance against them, war crime of US-led coalition etc then he starts believing them. For example, this is a recent video on their health service:

Quote:
Islamic State Health Service? ISIS launch British-inspired NHS


The Islamic State has released a video unveiling its latest caliphate initiative: a health service which shares remarkable similarities with Britain’s National Health Service (NHS).

Posted on social media late Thursday night, the video publicizes the Islamic State Health Service (ISHS), written in a style almost identical to NHS branding in Britain, the MailOnline reported.

It is being advertised as the ‘Islamic State Dewan of Health’. The background of the photo may depict doctors performing operations in the IS stronghold Raqqa.

The doctor in the video is also pictured wearing pale blue surgical scrubs, which are not dissimilar to the ones worn by British surgeons and pictured on UK health leaflets.

The video comes after it was revealed a number of British doctors and trainees have fled the UK to join Islamic State militants in Syria.

In March, nine medical students travelled to Syria, telling their families they were going to help treat victims of the civil war.

The students were of Sudanese origin and had been studying in Khartoum, but were from the same diaspora in the UK.

Families of the four men and five women travelled to the Syrian border with Turkey in an attempt to persuade their offspring to return home.

One Turkish opposition politician, Mehmet Ali Ediboglu, said he believed the young medics had been brainwashed.

“They have been cheated, brainwashed. That is what I, and their relatives, think,” he said.

“We all assume that they are in Tel Abyad now, which is under IS control. The conflict out there is fierce, so medical help must be needed.”

He added that given their medical background it was unlikely that they had joined the fray.

“Let’s not forget about the fact that they are doctors; they were there to help, not to fight.”

The students have been named as Lena Mamoun Abdelgadir, Nada Sami Kader, Rowan Kamal Zine El Abidine, Tasneem Suleyman Huseyin, Ismail Hamdoun, Tamer Ahmed Ebu Sebah, Mohammed Osama Badri Mohammed, Hisham Mohammed Fadlallah and Sami Ahmed Kadir.

The MailOnline also speculated that another British radical, Aqsa Mahmood, could be drafted into the Islamic State Health Service.

She was revealed to be the extremist who posted online as Umm Layth and was responsible for recruiting impressionable young women to the Islamic State.

Mahmood studied radiography at Glasgow Caledonian University and was planning to become a doctor before travelling to the Islamic State in 2013.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 14th May 2015 17:58
Black Turban wrote:
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When someone takes good out of the "Best" (islam), then of course it will look good. but when they dilute with it other ideologies, then it starts to stand out like a thorn to most but to a few, it will still look good.

I can't recall the Hadith about the date / fruit and how it looks and when one recites the Quran...this is something similar. Maybe someone can recall the Hadith for me, otherwise I'll update this post when I get the correct wording.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2015 07:58
Has the Islamic State become our problem?
If yes then it is very legitimate thing to take it seriously and take steps to address the problem.
If it is merely a problem for the west then with due respect it is their problem.
If west requests us with utmost politeness to help them is tackling this problem then also the first thing to do will be to ask what will we get in return.
As of now most of our problems are due to west and not the Islamic State.
Biggest of these problems is that they are hell bent upon imposing their values on us.
Till sometime back they had physically occupied our lands - colonialism.
At the very moment we are in a devious grip of economic colonialism.
The west is not at all amenable to any Muslim country looking forward to implement Shariah.
What is wrong if we want to live our lives according to Islam? Is freedom meant only for west? Does freedom mean only to implement western values.
Which problem is more vicious western grip on Muslims or Islamic State threat to the west?
Isn't our pain painful?
Why should I run with all the sympathy when west is having a trouble with a brutal off shoot of Al-Qaida, itself a western creation.

The trouble is that our thought process has become west oriented.
Their pain is our pain. their joy is our joy.
We got to come out of that mindset.
Till we leave that mode of thinking we shall continue to act like western puppets.

There is a very subtle walking on the edge that we Muslims have to indulge here.
And walking on the brink and edge is amongst most dangerus things.
Unfortunately there is no choice.
We took too long a break from worldly affairs and we have ended up in this soup.
Lord Most high willing things should start turning in our favour soon.
But we got to pay the price of ignoring worldly affairs, ignoring science and technology.
We are simply in the trap for the time being.

Never accept to be a part of western paradigm - neither conditionally nor at all unconditionally.
We have our interests to take care off.
Till we have the possibility of talking and walking for ourselves our curt answer to the west should be that sorry we can not help.
We have our problems that we got to focus upon.

My brothers and sisters might not be aware of so many Muslim lives being lost in fighting for the Europeans in the two world wars.
What was the purpose of those lives lost?
Nothing.
Let us be wide awake this time.
No unilateral sacrifices for those people who in all honesty are the inheritors of the crusades.
When the west demands sacrifices from you the least you should do is to become passive.
In case you want to assert then first assert for your own social, cultural, scientific, technological, military and political space.

Why do we get worked up for western interests even when they are not asking us.

And if the argument is that sooner or later our interests also will get entangled with these matters then may be we can wait for that time. In case our internal urge to intervene is very strong then first let us demand our own interests first.

But the problem is that we are not even aware of our inetersts being compromised by the west.
The only thing that we are aware of in these matters is that the west was supporting dictators in the so called middle east.
As if that helps.
If we have a dctator in Singapore then let us celebrate him.
If there were dictators in the middle east then let us criticize west for this little criticism will not anger the west.
Very starange state of mind we have.

Let us wake up and behave like thinking people.
Ask with all politeness, "Can we live like Muslims?"
And that is just the beginning whether you like it or not.
Whether you have the courage or not.
For soon you will be asked to specify what is meant by living like Muslims.
It must be very enjoying to indulge in hair splitting theology on SF and MS.
But life is little bit tough.
It throws difficult questions at you.
Have we done the homework about what we want when we interect with the west?
Hardly.

May be we can begin now.
Kindly begin now.
Tell the west that they have been intefering in our lives for too long and now we desire to live our lives according to Islam and this means that the west has to do the major readjustments now.
Whether the west loses to the Islamic State or wins over it above questions will remain still open.
For us these questions are more important than western interests.
So far the west had been minding its own intetests.
And we have been assuming that it, the west, will take care of our interets automatically.
Silly of us.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2015 14:29
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Sorry to say such comparisons are not really helpful. The youth who have/had such enthusiasms it needs to be channelled in the right way. This is where the Muslim countries, ulema and elders have let us down.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 15th May 2015 14:59
london786 wrote:
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Please elaborate how can we channel their enthusiasm in the right way.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 16th May 2015 15:51
You ask him a few things

1) Declaring mass takfeer and making the blood of others permissible

2) Killing fellow mujahideen

3) Killing women and children

4) Parading removed heads about (mutilating their bodies/disrespect to the dead)

5) Targeting minorities who are no threat to them, whilst staying away from the main battle, the main enemy


Ask him honestly ask yourself and you don't need to be an alim/mufti to answer this, is this really the way of Rasoolalah (saw) and his Sahaba رضي الله عنه ???

Would they be happy if they were here today to see such atrocities being committed in the name of Islam??

Tell him leave emotion at the door and think with your head, our allegiance is to Allah and His Rasool (saw), ulema who are heirs of the Prophets (as) have refuted them worldwide and not just from one particular school but all schools.


Not one big Alim/Mufti has risen to their cause, in fact they have deemed this so called khilafa a sham, there is no consensus of ulema and no shura and the khilafa claim is invalid.

The fools who claim the ulema can't give rulings because they are not on the battlefields, oh really since when and according to whom?? This isn't the first time Jihad has taken place on the globe in this century, why did ulema go to Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia etc to Fight?? Many who fought in them wars live today as well. Many ulema pledged bayah at the hands of Mullah Umar and in their hundreds and these are not my words but the words of South African ulema, why arent the ulema rising in pledging to Baghdadi?? They all surely can't be sell outs, Buryani palace scholars can they??


You can't understand the intricacies of Deen without understanding it from the ulema themselves and in that we've been told to stick with the jamaah the main body. Why interpret verses and scholarly texts yourselves? When you are sick or your child is do you administer which drugs to take and the dosage and frequency yourself or do you go to a medical expert? If you were to do that then you'd be called a fool with a few screw loose. Exactly.


Life is sacred and Allah knows what's in the hearts of men.

Shaykh Sulaiman Khattani actually mentioned this in a recent talk the youth of today want to raise the banners of Islam and March, but sadly these warriors can't lift a mere blanket which weighs a few kg for fajar and are absent from fajar Salah.

How will the nusrah of Allah come when so many commands are being broken and muslims are far from deen?

We're the ulema and the old wise people in this group? They aren't any and this is the group that the ahadith warned about 'foolish hot headed youth', who are doing nothing but damaging the name of Islam. They've even jeopardised the jihad in Syria, what more do you want me to say??


This is the way of Rasoolalah (saw) and his Sahaba رضي الله عنه ???

Think again
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 18th May 2015 15:44
Many people are ignorant about IS and are deluded into thinking that IS are a legit khilafah. However there are things we should consider:

1. IS claims to be defending and liberating Muslims - but instead seems to attack them first and foremost. It seems that the first priority of the group is Muslims that do not follow its extremely narrow and particular viewpoint that appears to revel in and glorify extreme levels of violence. Isn't the correct Islamic conduct to guide those who are misguided rather than to annihilate them?

2. Since IS fights and kills those who also claim to be defending Muslims, it seems that liberating oppressed Muslims is not their main priority, yet they continue to flaunt this narrative. It looks like very cheap and distasteful to use the plight of Muslims who are suffering hideously under the Syrian regime as propaganda for the group who would rather kill members of other jihadi factions that do not declare allegiance to al-Baghdadi than those who are actually harming innocent Muslims.

3. al-Baghdadi has no claim to be considered the leader of all the Muslims in the world. Rather, he is the leader of a group in one geographic area that appears to be despised by the vast majority of Muslims, including all of the scholars who can be considered the experts of Islamic knowledge - if they all unanimously shun him; it indicates to me that he is not sound. I certainly wouldn't want to put my faith in a doctor who has been shunned by all other doctors as a fraud/quack. So how can Muslims - who believe in the afterlife - seriously, risk their soul by following someone and his group that have been exposed as a frauds?

5. IS attacks and kills civilians, yet is a virtually undisputed fact that killing non-combatants and innocent people is a major haraam. They literally encourage their supporters in the West to stab their neighbour for no reason. There is no basis in Islam for harming people for no reason - or even those that help them, such as with the case of Alan Henning.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 18th May 2015 19:00
If anyone is interested in knowing more about ISIS relations to fellow Jihadi movements in the region, you can listen to the interview of Shaikh Abu Sulaiman al-Muhajir (member of Jabhatun Nusra):

Halalified YT Audio
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