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Deobandi Only Masjid and Gujrati only Masjid

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 18:47
Here in our Masjid we have barelwis in masjid committee, so because of them da'awa work is very much suffering. . .
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 18:47
remember we are speaking of two issues, mosque committee and mosque membership. I see you points on Gujrati exclusiveness for the committee but what about non gujratis being general members? The fear is that from there they may end up in the committee. Cant they have something in place that allows for open membership but restricts who sits on the committee. Now I more understand the Deobandi issue, although I do not fully agree with it. How about letting membership be open, but put something in place to ensure that the committee would run the Masjid according to the teachings of the Ulama Deoband. Is this possible? We need a lawyer.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 19:13
i did bring this up with the committee once back when i was a youth. the answer i got was pakistanis are excluded as they dont want barelwis taking over the masjid. simple solution would be a constitution that the masjid will only be run on the deobandi maslak.

imagine if india/pakistan never split. then there would be no issue. everyone would be indian. what then? pretty stupid as in reality indians and pakistanis are the same ethnicity!
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 23:40
So, Gujratis consider Pakistanis to be Barelwis by default?
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2015 00:28
True Life wrote:
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generally, yes.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2015 10:17
xs11ax wrote:
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I could say the opposite. Pakistani's aside, most Indian's I know who are not in the UK are all Barelwi - Hardcore Sunni :)

All depends on which part of India or Pakistan I guess.
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2015 10:39
abu mohammed wrote:
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salaam

just to clarify, i did say generally GUJARATIS consider pakistanis to be barelwis by default. i didnt say INDIANS. i should have also clarified that i was talking about UK gujaratis.

reminds me of an incident that happened once. i met someone (gujarati) i hadnt seen for a long time and got talking. told him i am married now and that my wife is pakistani. as soon as he heard pakistani he started stumbling over his words and said something like "oh yeah they are muslim as well". this is the mindset of many gujaratis. gujaratis know that pakistanis are muslim obviously, but they feel that they are MORE muslim than pakistanis!
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2015 11:07
This topic is an interesting one. The running of masjids is an issue. For a long time I did not want to become a member but have become one recently. I agree that it is a problem. To specifically highlight gujrati and deobandis is pretty unfair. I mostly attend a Bengali masjid. It is a family run affair with no members and committee as such. The Gujrati mosque is very well organized and this is true for nearly all gujrati masjids. With regards to mixed masjid committees I personally feel our people are a bit too uncivilized to make it work. Gujratis have this fear that Bengalis and Pakistanis are tougher people and will muscle their way through (and this is true to some extent as gujratis are very meek people) Also the dua of Nabi Musa AS where he asked for the assistance of his brother suggests that people work closer with family, tribe etc. I would love to see it work maybe in a generation or two. Also let us not forget the gujratis have deep splits even between bharuchi and surti. So all in all as long as all the people are allowed access to facilities equally I think each group to their own committee. The issue comes that when it comes to collecting money money is collected from all though in gujrati masjids gujratis will pay an additional fee for membership. Funds are heavily misspent in certain masjids and if the committee guys are dodgy the money goes all over the place. Alhamdulillah this is not the case with the gujrati masjid I am a member of. With regards to the Bengali masjid I attend even Bengalis complain that they don’t know where the money is spent. The imams and owners are constantly asking for money but is there a clear audit? Please note this is not an issue of gujrati vs Bengali vs Pakistani. Whoever it is must be honest and a taqwa person. Recently a masjid not too far from me has had issues. A gujrati family run affair. They demolished a mosque to build a new one without sufficient funds and without even offering temporary masjid. Another gujrati mosque one man show is pure corruption. The guy demolished a good mosque which was sufficient for the needs of the people and then built a new one raising funds from local people and then he did the contract himself. Nice way of earning money. My main issue with masjids is that they should provide facilities whoever runs it;

1. They should allow tablighi jamaats to stay.
2. They should keep the masjid clean
3. Keep finances transparent
4. Nobody should make money or there should be favouritism towards one’s family. i.e. all jobs to certain families
5. Leave masjids open and not hassle the musalees to get out of the masjid
6. They should find good ulema who speak English
7. They should work on Islamic classes, improving makhtab etc
8. The masjid should have social activities
9. Not boss the imam about and treat him as a personal slave
10. Work with mashwara with good ulema

In my local gujrati masjid I am totally happy with what the local ulema and committee are doing. My major beef with them through the years has been that they have not recruited an English speaking imam though now they have advertised a job. My other issue is that collections need to be changed. Half of the madrasahs and darulooms especially from indopak I would totally stop all their collections as it has become a good business for them. Apart from that the masjid does pretty much everything that can be asked.

At the same time I beg those who are religious and capable to get involved in this and become part of the committee. I have seen the devastating effects of corrupt people or incapable people holding the reins of the masjid. Another local masjid where my close relative was the president literally stopped progressing for many years. He was one of those tablighis who understand that tabligh is the be all and end all. So no programmes were held by ulema, even a poster was considered bidah as it is not used by tablighi jamaat. So sometimes when you get hardcore tablighis or jahil tablighis this also causes a major problem. So all in all there are major issues. I am tempted to stand in the next meeting to become a committee member but I do not consider myself worthy.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2015 11:09
xs11ax wrote:
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yes Gujratis do feeel they are more muslim than pakistanis. No doubt in this. Also we think most pakistanis are brelvis which is probably true
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd May 2015 03:17
I am deeply saddened by the support I am reading on here regarding it being permissible for a constitution to restrict the Masjid committee to be made up of only Gujratis/pakistanis etc. I see it as completely against the basic teachings of Islam and alhamdulilah for the response by Maulana Muhammad from this same website regarding this issue:

Quote:
2. c):
Also please can you comment on the. following: a rule which these committees make, that only those who come from a particular country may become a member (eg only those whose ethnic origin is "indian" are allowed to be masjid members)

The prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) strived all his life to break these traditions from the days of ignorance. To limit who can serve and offer services to the house of Allah based on which country or part of country they born in is despicable and shameful. Breaking the Islamic brotherhood blessed in the words of Nabi (Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) based on race is the works of Shaytaan and has no part in Islam.

2. c. (i): "those who are affiliated or whose family roots are from another country aren't allowed to be members. What is the shar'ee ruling in this regard?"

There is no basis in Islam to this condition and would be incorrect.


2. c. (ii): "some go to the extent of not even allowing children (whose family background is from another country eg Bangladeshi or Pakistani) to attend the maddrassa that is operated by the masjid management. Are they allowed to use such a discriminative law?"

They are not permitted in Islam to have such a law.


www.muftisays.com/qa/question/4181/common-issues-prevalen...

If anyone has any response online regarding this being permissible please post it here or if any Ulama reading his thread can comment that would be appreciated.
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd May 2015 03:21
Suppose people decide they want to restrict membership based on which village you come from, then would this also be supported so as to have a successful running of affairs which may only be achieved by like minded people? Remember we are speaking of a Masjid, not any orgaization.

London786 mentioned the differences between Baruchi and Surti , Are there any Masjids in the UK in whihc membership is restricted to only one of these groups?
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd May 2015 03:31
This response by Mufti Ebrahim Desai also addresses some issues I have with this whole membership issue:

Quote:
Membership Fees in Masajid

By Mufti Ebrahim Desai
POSTED: 18 SHAWWAL 1423, 23 DECEMBER 2002

Q.) What is the Shariah's view on membership fees paid monthly or annually to local Masjid?
A.) During the time of Nabi Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, there was always a need for funds to further the cause of Deen - Islam. Nabi Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam would exhort and encourage the Sahaba, Radi-Allahu anhu, to spend according to their means. Contributions to the Musjid should be on a Lillah (non-obligatory) basis and not under obligation of membership. Furthermore, the Masjid is for the benefit of all the Muslimeen (believers). Therefore, the concept of membership is contrary to the spirit of inclusivity. In fact it is a common practice of the Christians, Jews and Hindus whose holy places are full with elitism and financial prejudice. And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
[/quote]
www.albalagh.net/qa/membership_fees_masjid.shtml

This is regarding membership alone, so how much further away from the spirit of inclusivity are we when we go even further and restrict membership.

here is another response by mufti Waseem khan :

islamqa.org/hanafi/darululoomtt/52317

[quote]A masjid is the house of Allah and those who frequent it are all equal in being Muqtadis and members. Since all members are equal in being a part of the Masjid, no one must be preferred above the other on account of a fee which is paid.
If you implement the system of ‘paid membership’, then you are actually saying that those who pay ‘the fee’ are legitimate members, while those who do not pay are not legitimate members. This however, is totally wrong and is against the teachings of Islam. The masjid belongs to Allah, and is not in the ownership of anyone. Hence, you cannot charge a Muslim a fee to be a member, nor can you ask him to pay a fee in order to obtain special benefits and privileges. This is not permissible in Islam. All Muslims who frequent a certain Masjid, are equal with respect to their right of attendance, and their right of general benefits and privileges........
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd May 2015 13:37
I remember shaykh Zahir Mahmood doing a talk once in which he said today you have Mosques with beautiful names such as masjid e bilal, however if bilal ra turned up today he wouldn't even be allowed on the committee.

There's are Mosques that won't even allow you to be on their committee if your not a barouchi gujrati, the racism and exclusiveness is not as bad as it uses to be, but it's still there and it's ugly face does pop up from time to time.



However on other side no one can negate/deny the work that these people have done for Islam, if it wasn't for them then there would never be as many as other Islamic groups as there are today. This country leads the West in madaris, ulema, huffaz etc, Tabligh, khanqah and other notable efforts, so credit given where it's due.


Racism, patriotism needs to be booted out, the Prophet Saw said to the nearest meaning 'it's rotten so leave it'.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd May 2015 13:54
The thing we have forgotten is that the beauty of a Masjid is neither in its massive structure nor its beautiful designs nor its minarets and domes but the sincere worshippers inside.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 4th May 2015 14:12
one solution

every mosque is registered under some other name like x x association or x x society. have the membership to be part of the society with criteria like nationality and school of thought but don't associate the membership fee with the mosque so if you are a fee paying member then you would be the member of the so and so society or association but not the mosque
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