Deobandi Only Masjid and Gujrati only Masjid

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 05:17

Assalamu Alaikum

Lets start with Gujrati only masjids. I don't know how other Masjids are run, but Gurati Masjid have provision for people to become members by paying a fee, and that makes them eligible to vote and become a member of a committee. Any one can come and pray and use the facilities but only Gujratis can become members of the masjid. Although I heard that in England in some Masjids, Pakistanis can not atttend the madrasas as well. I guess the apparent need for such a stipulation in the constitution would vary from place to place, as I have seen how some Muslims behave in England and I am told they are not Gujrati but from a particular country.

What are your views about this? Is this correct or even advisable? Is it a minor issue and should be ignored? IF it is necessary in england due to certain situations should other countries also put in this clause because masjids in Uk are doing this? Or is this totally against Islam and shouldn't be put in the constitution unless absolutely necessary?

After this we can speak about "Deobandi only Masjids". I can more understand why people would see the need for this but I can't understand why the person would have to be a Gujrati Deobandi to be a member.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 12:58

Why do you need to be a member of any Masjid? Can't you pray without being a member?

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 13:17

As I mentioned, anyone can pray in the Masjid and use its facilities, but only paying members have the right to vote on matters and sit on the Masjid comitte. Annual membership fees also raise funds for the Masjid. I still find it highly offensive and Gainst Islamic teachings to have a stipulation that only Gujratis or only Deobanis can become a paid member. Although I want to separate the discussion because the reason for only allowing Deobandis to be paid members is so that it is impossible for other groups to take over Masjid leadership (Deobandis are the saved sect ?), while I can not see the rationale for insisting one must be both gujrati and Deobandia to sit on a masjid Comitee.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 13:20

It also has to do with the wording, as you can have a document available for public viewing which states bluntly that only followes of Ulama of Deoband can become a member of this Masjid. And worse than that only Gujratis can become members of this masjid. where is this practice found in Islam?

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 13:41

You have bypassed my question, entirely.

Is the purpose of a Masjid to pray or to become a member?

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 14:05

I think brother Muadh's questions are leading in the right direction, I would like to have the decency to further expound on these. Running the Masjid and using it's facilities are - as also admitted by the OP - clearly two different things at hand. I strongly agree, that it would be totally unislamic to exclude Muslims (!) based on cultural or secterian differences from the basic usage of any Masjid.

But to run a Masjid smoothly a mutual understanding amongst those in charge is an essential factor, and should not be underestimated. This might sound controversial or even unislamic to some, but I have observed Masjids run by multi-cultural and multi-secterian administrations fail miserably more often than succeed. Unfortunately lack of understanding, miscommunication and too diverse ideas in the long run lead to dirty politics, conflicts, seperation and other desasters. Of course, this is not the ideal situation but it's reality and if we can work on reducing and eradicate the hatred and prejudices outside of the Masjid boundaries, maybe one day not only our shoulders (or ankles) can join inside the Masjid but also our hearts.

I also acknowledge, that not all Masjid committees put these restrictions out of the noble intention of merely running the Masjid smoothly. Some might also be motivated by prejudices and racism... which they will be accountable for infront of Allah. This is also not a "problem" exclusive to Gujratis or Deobandis...

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 14:28

@muadh_khan I answered your question already :)but now you asked a new question and the answer is obviously that the main purpose of the Masjid is to pray.

@true life yes this is the point of view of some. Butaybe this itself does not eliminate dirty politics conflicts and separations because this still happens and there is even vote buying and voting based on family ties or home villages.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 14:40

I did NOT claim committees like these are free from any problems or vices. But then allow me the counter question: How do mixed committees automatically reduce the appearance of these? Can't really be the solution... should look somewhere else...

And ironically you are attesting to my point: Keeping in mind the general condition of the Ummah committee members should not even come from different villages, let alone cultures. :-p

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 14:56

Does this reflect the attitude of such persons towards non gujratis and non deobandis in general, so therefore they will never be a part of the Muslim community in which there are a minority? So the Islamic principles we learn about not thinking of one group of people to be superior to another and not having excessive nationalism and tribalism and brotherhood have nothing to do with this mode of thinking?

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 15:16

So, unless you are a member of the committee you don't feel as a part of the community? You can't think of better ways to engage with your local community than deciding the colour of the Masjid carpet or at which time Eid salah should be performed? I'm sure sincere committees will insha'Allah take brilliant suggestions by even non-committee community members into fair consideration... and if they are not that sincere, then why would you like to become part of them in the first place? And I said it before any unislamic motivations behind such administrative regulations will be questioned about by Allah ta'ala, but really if state of our unity outside the mosque is like this then what do you expect in a Masjid committee?

I repeat: If sincerely done for having a certain like-mindedness and things in common to run the Masjid smoothly and avoid conflicts of interests, I personally understand it and experience has shown this to be a safe route. If done out of those bad motives you mentioned, then it is blameworthy and reflects the overall state of our unity.

Sorry, my English is not so good, but I hope you understand what I mean. Otherwise I will have to give up and hope for someone else to explain...

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 15:23

I understand your point of view. Also if the main goals of the masjid comitte are what you mentioned then we also have a problem . unless of course there is another organization to deal with broader masjid related issues.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 17:27

Concerned wrote:

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To run a Mosque or anything you need like minded people

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 17:31

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Agree, but even the best of us get driven out or eventually opt out - not to mention any names :(

Also, go up North, Blackburn area for example. There was a time when Masjid's would simply open because they didn't get along with each other within the members. (Well at least that's what I was told when I saw mosques in almost every corner)

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 18:28

salaam

not sure how other masajids work, but in batley anyone who is not a paid up member does not get certain privileges that members get. examples are, discounted fees for the maktab, free burial service, discounted fees for nikah service. and within the gujarati imws run masajids, anyone who is not india does not get to be a member and is discriminated for this when it comes to using certain services provided by the masajid. i no longer live in batley, but this thread has made me think where my family would stand if i did as i am indian and my wife is pakistani. this system of their's also creates an air of superiority amongst the indians and inferiority against the pakistanis. it even affects things like appointment of imams, ustads, muadhins etc. i cant remember EVER praying behind a non indian imam in any of the imws masajids in all my years. so this stronghold that gujaratis have definitely discriminates against non indians due to their ethnicity which of course is haram. if committee members cannot get along with muslims of other ethnicity due to ethnicity alone then they do not deserve to hold such positions as their bias will get in the way of running the masjid in a non biased way. i remember a certain incident where there was a very lovely, pious, well mannered, intelligent, gentle, pakistani uncle who prayed all his salaat in the masjid without fail. as he was usually one of the first one there even in fajr salaat, he started to give the adhan. after quite some time giving the adhan, some indian with a wild hair up his back side started making an issue out of it and eventually forced him to stop giving the adhan in favour of an indian giving the adhan. if the gujratis did not have the backing of an all gujarati committee then i doubt this injustice would have been allowed to happen. funny thing is, you will hardly find the members of the committee in the masjid for salaat. they only pop up on special occasions! this mentality and politics that our fathers have imported over from the villages from when they were living in shacks and working in fields have become redundant in this age in the UK and really need to end as they get in the way of islamic progress in the UK.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 30th April 2015 18:46

It's not just an Indian thing, or Gujarati thing. it can also break down to the type of Gujarati one is.

I may be Indian through my dad too, but my mum is from Pakistan (by birth), my wife is also Pakistani and we are still confused as to what type of Indians we are (makes me laugh) all I know is that we aren't the type that can be part of the committee and I hope I'm wrong about that, not that I'd want to be one.

I also know of a popular Barelwi Pakistani Masjid, however, the Imam is Gujarati. it's amazing to see how the rest of the world can move on but the Gujarati thing can't.

Alhumdulillah, just PROUD to be MUSLIM

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