Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Sheikh Wasiullah Abbas confirms Mufti Menk is not a Salafi, but Hanafi

Jump to page:

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
To appreciate this topic, click 'Appreciate Topic' on the right.
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#91 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 18:20
www.muftisays.com/forums/27-sharing-portal/11432-is-dr-ak...


The above link is where I posted the opinions of various contemporary ulama on the issue of taqleed.

Quote:

To me, this feels like a huge issue and will become one of the biggest negative impacts he's going to have on Hanafi's, especially the lesser educated one, the ones whose source is google and youtube.

In fact, most of his talks are so good that people share them to educate ignorant friends and family, but now, in response, all their gonna hear is that he's another Salafi, another Dr Zakir Naik. Where we only listen to some of his stuff and ignore the rest, so where will they draw the line?


The above post is why I feel the need to share the various valid views.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#92 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 18:25
SunniSeeker wrote:
View original post

From what I have read, I did not get the impression that taqleed mutlaq was fine mainly because there was uniformity of views or madhabs, rather the discussions clearly speak about doing taqleed of various views across madhabs.

Shah waliullah's statement posted earlier actually says the opposite of what you are saying, as he says it would be necessary for a person to follow one imam if he only had access to that imam' views, but if he was, for e.g ,in the haramain, where he could access various viewpoint s, then it would no longer be necessary to follow one imam.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Asaaghir's avatar
Spinistan Throne
1,140
Brother
750
Asaaghir's avatar
#93 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 18:48
Concerned wrote:
View original post

We're in the "NOW" period, Shah Saheb was in the "THEN" period.

Now we see brothers and sisters going through what seems an evolution of the religion. The authentic orthodoxity is getting lost.

I'll be honest with you brother,much of my Salah is done with Salafi brothers and I've seen them changing from Hadith to Hadith, from mas'ala to mas'ala and now I see them sitting in Salah like I do, not on their buttocks. I see them being closer and closer to my way. Everyday they are evolving and all I can see is the Hanafi ruling coming up, yet they will never ever admit it not will they ever mention his name.

You ask them a question and their answer is, "there's new evidence akhi"

However, they will not step back from the teachings of Shaykh Albani no matter what new evidence is being presented.

Another major issue is laypeople coming back home from their tours of Al-quds and they think they know it all. It's very dangerous as most Hanafi's don't even know what their school teachers and the evidence behind it.

What you are promoting maybe be valid, but the way you are doing it, is the Salafi way.

We advise people to stick to one set of rules at all times, you're suggesting that we can be more relaxed. Becoming more relaxed in our every day worship is an open target for iblees and his henchmen.

So what if there are other majority opinions from other schools, people will just make unqualified decisions at the wrong time.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Asaaghir's avatar
Spinistan Throne
1,140
Brother
750
Asaaghir's avatar
#94 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 19:00
I know a Hanafi couple and they follow the same principle you've laid out. They aren't educated but they have access to scholars, books, friends, family and the internet.

What did they do?

The husband gave her 3 divorces in one go. They stayed away from each other after the baby was born, then shopped around for a fatwa. They were told by everyone, friends, family, books, internet that it was over. Then they found an ahle-hadith imam and asked him. Low and behold, they got back, got divorced again, got back again and had more children.

So tell me brother, what should they have done?

Should they have practiced TS or TM.....remember your response should be general and valid for everyday scenarios.

Give them one solution fit for all for everyday.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#95 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 19:01
vimeo.com/55091312

Quote:
We're in the "NOW" period, Shah Saheb was in the "THEN" period.


Well here is a qualified alim speaking about NOW.
In the above lecture , sh TAHA karan makes it clear that in the middle ages if someone was in a region where there was only access to one madhab, then this whole topic would not be an issue, but nowadays in the west where we have Muslims from all backgrounds and ulama from all backgrounds and easy access to authentic information from various authentic ulama, we can follow opinions from other madhabs and even act on hadith, once another madhab acted on it.

The rest of your post is not directly related to this topic.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Asaaghir's avatar
Spinistan Throne
1,140
Brother
750
Asaaghir's avatar
#96 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 19:23
Shaykh Taha mashaallah :)

What about my post below it, you might of missed it ;)
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#97 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 19:31
We will get to your post, but first make it clear that you disagree with what sh Taha karan is teaching. You just have to listen from 60 mins onward for a few minutes.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
42
Brother
21
#98 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 20:49
Concerned wrote:
View original post


The shaykh also QUALIFIES these statements which you should also mention.

Please clarify what you understand by unrestricted taqlid. Is it hopping from one opinion to another and back whenever you feel like?
report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0Like x 2
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#99 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 22:03
Quote:
The shaykh also QUALIFIES these statements which you should also mention.


It is clear that the shaykhs view is definitely vastly different to the taqleed shaksi view propagated by Deobandi Ulama, both when it comes to taking opinions from other madhabs and acting on a hadith that is contradictory to ones madhab.

Please point out exactly what you are referring to in terms of qualifying the statements.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
42
Brother
21
#100 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 22:18
Concerned wrote:
View original post


Brother first of all you need to acknowledge, as brother Muadh pointed out also, that the deobandi ulema and others who advocate TS do not negate TM.

Then please clarify what YOU understand by "taking opinions from other madhabs and acting on a hadith that is contradictory to ones madhab" AND how this is done practically by a layman.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Like x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#101 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 22:38
Quote:
. Brother first of all you need to acknowledge, as brother Muadh pointed out also, that the deobandi ulema and others who advocate TS do not negate TM. [/quote]

Let's be practical. As far as I am aware, a deobandi alim generally insists that an individual has to follow one madhab at all times and is not allwoed to leave the madhab, unless it was some extreme cases involving life and death or some very extreme situation. An individual also cannot choose to act on a hadith contrary to his madhab. Let's call this taqleed shaksi. They also insist that followers of all madhabs must practice taqleed shaksi, and it is the majority view.

I don't care what the muftis write in theory, the above is what is taught and practiced. If this is not true then show me a deobandi hanafi aalim who explicictly allows an individual to not practice the taqleed shaksi as explained above. If you do this then there is no need for further discussion.


[quote]Then please clarify what YOU understand by "taking opinions from other madhabs and acting on a hadith that is contradictory to ones madhab" and how this is done practically by a layman.


We are going off tangent. I have posted from contemporary ulama from all four madhabs who clearly disagree that it is necessary for all individuals to practice taqleed shaksi as explained above. I have done so in an attempt to show that their are other valid views besides taqleed shaksi , so one can not condemn others for acting on those views. In fact this whole discussion started because people have issues with mufti menk acting against the Hanafi madhab, and are finding faults with him for doing so.

In the various links I provided, the ulama have explained what "taking opinions from other madhabs and acting on a hadith that is contradictory to ones madhab" means and explained how it is practically applied. So this has nothing to do with my personal opinions.

So again I am generally interested in what qualifications shaikh Taha mentioned, so i can learn from it and see if I misunderstood his position, which BTW is the shafi position. If you cannot answer such a simple query, then what's the point of this discussion. Are we just arguing for arguments sake?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
IslamicSciences.info's avatar
London
19
Brother
9
IslamicSciences.info's avatar
#102 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 22:54
"I was also thinking along similar lines. However...

TM worked well in the past because access to information for the laity was less than it is at present and so were not exposed to a diversity of opinions. Each locality had their own 'culture' and the ulema therein pretty much were of the same disposition in fiqh matters. Hence there would've been some sort of uniformity in practice in each locality - you could say although it was TM outwardly, it was more like TS as the ulema on had access to were of similar 'type'.

As people began to get exposed to diverse variety of scholars, the need for TS became apparent."

Now it is a completely different situation...if the need for TS became apparent hundreds of years ago, it is even more so now."

Regardless of what was or was not the situation in the past, my point is that TM does not necessarily lead to following of desires any more than TS does, so there is no need to abandon it even in these times.

But the situation in the past was not as you mentioned. Yes there was an Iraqi School and there was a Madani School, but there was enough diversity within each as to allow someone to follow their desires if they wanted to. Just look at Mukhtasar Ikhtilaf al-Ulema of Imam Tahawi and you'll see plenty of differences between Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Sufyan al-Thawri, both of whom were from the Iraqi School and were contemporaries. And did Imam Abu Yusuf not detail the differences between IAH and Imam Ibn Abi Lailah (which covered pretty much every chapter of Fiqh) in his Ikhtilaf Abi Hanifah wa Ibn Abi Lailah? Guess where the latter was from? Yep, Iraq. Or look closer to home at the differences between IAH and his students, who are regarded as being of the same Madhab, let alone the same regional School. Or what about when Imam Shafi'i was residing with Imam Muhammad in Iraq? At that time, you would have had the typical diversity and variation of opinions between the Hanafi and Shafi'i Schools as we do now, if not even more so. Or when Imam Shafi'i moved to Egypt and eventually dominated Imam Awzaa'i's School which was already established there? Or when Fudhayl Ibn Iyadh took the Hanafi School to the Maliki dominated Al-Maghrib and Al-Andalus? As you can see, there was no lack of diversity or information at all.

"One only has to pose a question to google on a single issue and you are provided with a whole variety of answers - which do you accept and on what basis?"

There are a number of ways for deciding, for e.g. on the basis of ease as Ibn Humam highlighted, or he can go with whichever opinion he has most confidence in, etc, but the important point here is that once he has decided (on whatever basis), he cannot change whenever he feels like it, as I detailed in my initial post.


report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#103 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2017 23:03
I do not know much about Barelwis, but a far as I am aware Sh Asrar Rashid would be considered one, and here is him on facebook disagreeing with taqled shaksi.


Quote:
Asrar Rashid
July 25, 2016 ·
Someone asked whether the position I stated regarding the four schools, taking from all four and changing schools. This should not be confused with talfiq (mixing a issue in such a way that it is invalid in all four schools). Some people claiming to be muftis and scholars oppose this in a machiavellian fashion. I would advise them and others to read 'alIqd alFarid' by Imam Nur alDin Ali Samhudi, 'Khulasat alTahqiq' by Imam Abdul Ghani Nablusi, 'Jazil alMawahib' by Imam Suyuti and the first part of 'Shawahid alHaq' of Imam Yusuf Nabahani. The position I have stated is what these imams have written as well as other great imams like Imam Rafi'i and Imam Nawawi etc as cited in the above works.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Asaaghir's avatar
Spinistan Throne
1,140
Brother
750
Asaaghir's avatar
#104 [Permalink] Posted on 6th July 2017 08:56
Asaaghir wrote:
View original post

These people went and did something outside of their school because they believed that they could hop on, hop off and were told is valid.

brother concerned, your opinion please

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,902
Brother
342
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#105 [Permalink] Posted on 6th July 2017 11:00

IslamicSciences.info wrote:
View original post

The reason for the differences between NOW and THEN are that back then the Ulama were sort of vetted by the contemporaries and held in the public eye based on the opinion of other Ulama. So although a well-known Hanafi (scholars) would have vehemently disagreed with a Shaf’ae one, nevertheless the standard of scholarship could be determined.

In our times (particularly in the West and especially in America) there is no such thing. A man (or a woman) is put on a scholarly pedestal by layman and there is no vetting of the scholarship of the person.

I personally know “Imams” who have no clue about Fiqh and a famous “Imam” in UK told his group that if you ORDER your wife, she has to OBEY unquestionably. Brother believed this opinion and enforced it relentlessly until by chance he happened to come in contact with a few Deobandi “Muftees” and due to the title “Mufti” he decided to check this answer and also that his relationship was being affected.

I was giving a talk in America and two of fellow “Imams” who are held in high esteem amongst the laymen didn’t have a clue about Imam Nawawi (RA), let alone any meaningful knowledge of Hadeeth (beyond authentic and weak).

Therefore turning to the first available religious authority for a laymen is fraught with danger. The laymen has to do his (or her) research and get to a trustworthy and credible scholar.

Now let me get DOWN to the intellectual capacity of concerned and begin to talk about low-level issues like lobster etc. Once you have a trusted scholar then give them your scenario and circumstances and within the principles of the Madhab there is enough leeway for Ulama to formulate an answer.

Simply put, you cannot compare the level, authenticity and rigours of Islamic knowledge which exited previously to our youtube generation Imams (who talk a good game) but are terrifyingly ignorant! 

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top

Jump to page: