Sheikh Wasiullah Abbas confirms Mufti Menk is not a Salafi, but Hanafi

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#61 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:17

When I say look at the matter with an open mind, it is similar to telling a deviated sufi to look at a matter with an open mind, or a shia to look at a matter with an open mind. If they refuse to do so and insist on sticking to what they know and viewing everything through that lens, they would never be able to see the truth. I am not saying taqleed shaksi is a deviated view.

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#62 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:27

Concerned wrote:

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The point is, we're all going to end up as impure, filthy, zaanis because we won't know which issues of Fiqh has clashed with another.

The point is, it's SAFER.

The point is, families won't be in conflict.

The point is, children won't be born as illegitimate.

The point is, parents will be living in sin.

The point is, there will be discord among brothers and sisters.

The point isn't to say like you are enforcing on others to accept that the other 3 schools are wrong.

The point is, each school has its reasons and they back it with evidence to coincide with other issues.

The point is, you just want to be flexible and practice what suits the needs of yourself and probably your female relatives.

The point is that your are partially correct but not qualified enough to jump around.

The point is, your are giving preference to your "OWN" understanding from other schools and a mixture of Ulama, the point is, you are following your desires.

The point is, you are becoming a ghair muqallid.

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#63 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:35

The point is you have not read anything that was posted in this thread, nor the other thread on sh Akram

the point is that contemporary ulama and ulama of the past of all 4 madhabs were not able to think of all of your points and got it all wrong.

The point is that your making something binding on every single Muslim, which has no definite basis in the Quran or sunnah. Ulama came up with these ideas and restrictions to the best of their ability based on their understanding and they differed. And these restrictions increased as we got further away from the best of generations.

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#64 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:36

Concerned wrote:

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You are accusing those who advocate and practise Taqleed Shaksi to not have an open mind. The reality is to the contrary. Ulama have looked at both opinions, evaluated the current circumstances and then given an opinion that Taqleed Shaksi is the best option. This set of Ulama have never denied that the other position is not valid.

Those who oppose Taqleed Shaksi have merely taken an opinion and advocated it. Their principled position is that it is THE MOST ORTHODOX position.

How can you ask those who advocate Taqleed Shaksi to open their mind? Ridiculous! You obviously have no clue what Istihsaan even means…

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#65 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:40

As usual ignore all post which you cannot answer or which does not go in your favor, and only conveniently select what you want to reply to, so you can win the argument. Also as usual put words in people mouths so you can prove a point and win an argument.

I told Ryder to approach the topic with an open mind, as he was dismissing other views besides taqleed shaksi as a minority view in addition to other things.

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#66 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:48

There was a response by a mod in another thread which cracked me up and it worked if you ask me.

Instead of continuing with the bickering, the mod did a classic and froze the topic.

God knows what the intent behind it was, but for me, it was like when a spouse tells the other, "enough is enough" one word did it that day :)

That one word was, "FINE". & It worked!

Your arent open minded enough to understand the dangers of pick and mix, so fine. So be it.

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#67 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:52

If you really wanted to stop the 'bickering' you could have not posted.

Instead you are creating suspicions over the mods intention in another thread.

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#68 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:57

Ah! The memories!

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Ahmed ibn Hanbal said, "If in any matter there is agreement between three people, then one pays no attention to the verdict of anyone who disagrees with them." Someone asked him, "Who are they?" He answered, "Abu Hanifah, Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan.
As-Samani / kitab al-ansab.

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#69 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:57

Concerned wrote:

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Experience has shown that you lack the Academic ability and sufficient intellectual capacity to engage in a discussion.

Your plea to “open our minds” is just a cry for us to give up and take your point as the Gospel.

If we don't agree with your copy/paste opinion, we have a closed mind no matter how absurd your point of view (usually is).

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#70 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:05

Yeah because it is easier to deal with me than to deal with the topic at hand. And its easier to keep picking on a few of my words directed at one individual , due to his specific comments, and ignore the issue we are speaking about. And its easier to selectively choose what you want to discuss and ignore everyone else.

Yet its me who cannot engage in a discussion. How do all threads move away from the issue and become a personal discussion about me?

Now I remember why you were banned from sunniforum.

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#71 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:15

Asaaghir wrote:

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When I was in Hajj, I met a brother who owns a sweet shop.

He told me that one day, a little girl came to his shop and filled a bag with the pick n mix sweets.

When she got to the till, she asked him, "are they halal"

Now this shop keeper had an attitude, he said he couldn't be bothered to empty the bag and sift through the sweets and separate the two. So he told the little girl, "They're all halal!"

Astagfirullah man.

I obviously told him what I thought and scolded him, but you see the point I'm making.

@Asaaghir and @Concerned picking and mixing is a good example.

Similarly, I went to a HMC certified Chinese takeaway. The guy in the shop was a Hanafi, so I asked him if everything was definitely halal.

Naturally he laughed and pointed to the certificate.

I told him HMC only certify Meat and poultry. They don't do sea food and what you're telling me is halal is actually haram.

So what should I do, accept the fact that such an item was halal according to Imam Malik but haram according to imam Abu Hanifa?

The layman in the store was in it for business and making money, he didn't care! As long as one school called it halal, he was okay with it and basically told me it wasn't his problem.

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#72 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:17

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On the contrary!

It is always good to engage with those whom we disagree with to get their perspective and to see the limits of our argument.

Problem is that someone like you simply hasn’t got the intellectual capacity or academic background to make it happen.

Your cries of “open your mind” is just so people pay attention to you and agree with you.

Why I got banned from Sunniforum is a different topic and your analysis is not entirely accurate but since it plays into your (victim) narrative you digress and talk about it.

Let me make the fundamental point AGAIN:

Taqleed Shaksi: Ulama do agree and concur with the fact that earlier Muslims neither advocated nor practised Taqleed Shaksi. They acknowledge that Taqleed Shaksi is a later development but needed due to our circumstances.
Taqleed Mutlaq: Ulama state that this is the original and orthodox position advocated in the Qur’aan and Sunnah. Taqleed Shaksi is not therefore it should be abandoned.

How the heck can you ask group 1 to open their mind? Their mind is already open and that’ why they have come to their position after serious reflection and analysis of both positions.

Every treatise on Taqleed Shaksi clearly mentions and acknowledges Taqleed Mutlaq to be a viable and accepted position.

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#73 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:37

I don't understand your first scenario, but let's deal with the second one.
I have modified it and created 2/scenarios.

How does taqleed shaksi solve the problem?

Quote:

Similarly, I went to a HMC certified Chinese takeaway. The guy in the shop was a Hanaf who ate shrimps, so I asked him if everything was definitely halal.

Naturally he laughed and pointed to the certificate.

I told him HMC only certify Meat and poultry. They don't do sea food and what you're telling me is halal is actually haram.

So what should I do, accept the fact that shrimps are halal according to Ml Ashraf Ali thanwi but haram according to Mufti Ebrahim Desai and according to Mufti As Desai.

The layman in the store was in it for business and making money, he didn't care! As long as one mufti called it halal, he was okay with it and basically told me it wasn't his problem.

[/quote]

[quote]Similarly, I went to a HMC certified restaurant. The guy in the shop was a Hanafi, so I asked him if everything was definitely halal.

Naturally he laughed and pointed to the certificate.

I told him HMC only certify Meat and poultry. They don't do drinks and what you're telling me is halal is actually haram.

So what should I do, accept the fact that coke and sprite and lucozade and ribena is halal according to mufti Sacha but haram according to the earlier rulings of the Hanafi madhab, and haram according to those who do not approve of small amounts of alcohol?

The layman in the store was in it for business and making money, he didn't care! As long as one mufti called it halal, he was okay with it and basically told me it wasn't his problem.

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#74 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:41

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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You are still insiting I told a whole group of people to.open their mind , after I repeatedly told you I was speaking to Ryder after certain comments he made.

But I guess you will repeatedly ignore this so you can derail the topic. Where are the mods?

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#75 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:52

Concerned wrote:

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Concerned wrote:

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In any discussion, we first deal with the principles and then we deal with scenarios (guided by principles). The principles lead to solutions to problems.

Children lack the intellectual capacity to know or evaluate principles and dive into “My dad’s car is better than your dad”. Issue here isn’t HMC or your drummed up hypothetical (and heavily modified) scenarios to tilt the argument in your favour.

The issue here is principle of “Taqleed Shaksi” vs “Taqleed Mutlaq”.

Taqleed Shaksi: Watch who you follow and seek advice from. Check the character, morals and practise of the person, seek the opinion of his (or her) contemporaries before approaching
Taqleed Mutlaq: Find the first available person ask and move on. Get to the person who is easily accessible to you.

Which position appears to empower the laymen?

[Mod edit: last line modified (breaking rules)]

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Sheikh Wasiullah Abbas confirms Mufti Menk is not a Salafi, but Hanafi

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