Hazrat you have taken the mantle of explaining Shaykh (Mufti)'s Fatwaas and what he means when using certain terms within the Madhab and its implications we are merely saying that your explanations make no sense.
We also benefited from your explanations to learn that Haram doesn't mean "Haram" and we are all mistaken for thinking that.
.....The incident of hazrat kaab bin ahbaar radhialllah anhu when he demanded his loan from Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam in a harsh way. Hazrat umar radhiallah anhu got angry and drew his sword to kill him. Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam said him no umar. Instead advise him to demand his loan back in a better way and advise me to return his loan.....
(I'm sorry for off topic post.)
Wasn't it Hadhrat Zaid bin Su'na رضي الله عنه who was a Jew scholar that time and showed harshness intentionally to observe Rasulullaah 's Akhlaaq?
Sayyidina 'Umar رضي الله عنه was standing near and his eyes got bigger out of extreme anger and he threatened verbally, not by sword.
I've heard this story several times. However please correct me if I've missed anything.
In fact, we should say that it is haraam for males to teach even four year old girls. If we see that teachers are molesting even 5 year old girls, then we should not be fossilized in our thinking and say that the age limit is 7 years. If a teacher molests a man's 4 year old daughter, will he accept the 7 year limit?
A.S. Desai
[/quote]
So, khalwah between little girls of 4 year old & ghair mahram is haram?
Respected Brother Arslan: I feel due to fitnah, there shouldn't be any khalwah between gahir mahram and even a baby girl. Could you please ask Mufti if it's haram? If it's not haram, then what's the reason for that.
1. It's a reported case which has been investigated. Nobody has been found guilty yet. The Majlis should remember this when choosing the tone & language to adopt.
2. As probably already mentioned no doubt Hadhrat has Shar'i daleel as to the claim that girls should be completely segregated from boys from the age of 6. He however fails to mention the daleel. In another fatwa persons of equivalent calibre to Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi Rahmatullahi Alayh were not considered as proof for a claim. The Majlis insisted on going back to Imam Abu Hanifa Rahmatullahi Alayh & his students. So why suddenly do they regard Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi Rahmatullahi Alayh as a conclusive authority? In other words, one can't have it both ways.
3. Then the Majlis claims, without evidence that this Satanic misdemeanour is occurring widely. May be it is, but they haven't adduced any evidence to that effect.
4. What's the proof that it is Haraam for male teachers to teach girls over 6? What's the Shar'i proof that it's ok to teach girls under 6? Are girls under 6 not likely to be molested nowadays?
2) Yes one can have it both ways according to the shariah. It would help you immensely to read my above posts again. I have already explained this. In matters regarding shariah and matters regarding the methodology of issuing fatwas your illogical conclusions and objections are of little concern. It show a deficit in your thinking that you object without properly knowing the rules of ifta. I suggest you first familiarise yourself of these masail then come up with objections.
Rest of your objections are not worth reading. As I have mentioned countless times before our maqsad is not dissecting fatwas of ulama to prove our intellect. Our maqsad is the cultivation of taqwa through which we can hope to attain the awwaleen entrance into jannah through the mercy of Allah Ta'ala. These objections can be held against you specially when they are blurted out without proper knowledge to back it. A better exercise would be to spend time reading beheshti zewar to learn fardh masail and spend one's time in reading seerat and stories of salf e saliheen.
umar123 wrote:
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What is more pathetic is your attitude of istikhfaaf of deen that you have displayed so profoundly. As if slandering a muslim dors not hold any value for you. The 'feeling' you have is called 'badghumani' by shariah whicb falls in the category of a grave sin. On the day of qayamat you will be demanded by Allah Azza Wa Jal to present your daleel for your 'feeling' (badghumani). What will you say then? Pathetic?
Well the ulema have had the same feeling for unnecessary arguments regarding deen.
Kindly see this thread which is the speech of Mufti Taqi Usmani saheb:
www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?81601-Spiritual-h... I hope you wont accuse Mufti Taqi usmani saheb of 'slandering'. lol.
Yes such arguments are indeed Pathetic.
It is reported in Musnad-e-Ahmad, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and Mustadrak Haakim that
Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) said:
"That nation is not led astray after the guidance has been brought to them, except when they are given to arguments."
The arguments in this thread is completely unnecessary. Only part that makes sense here is Maualana Yaseen sahebs academic input, the rest is all nafsi nafsi.
Haraam is makrooh e tehrimi? Difficult to swallow..
Might be like As we say in urdu that so and so thing is poison for a .... Patient.. or as we say that usmein to insaniyat naam ke cheez hi nahi..
But Can a Mufti say that?
Quote The interest and enthusiasm shown by yourself and your companions is praiseworthy and congratulatory. However, my advice is that you change this interest of yours from discussions and debates to learning and teaching Deen.
Devote your time and energies to the practical implementation of the Deen. You should make an effort to adopt the lifestyle of our beloved Nabi (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) and likewise turn the attention of others in that direction.
This suggestion of mine is based on two reasons. Discussions and debates hamper the ability of a person to carry out (good) actions. It is reported in Musnad-e-Ahmad, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and Mustadrak Haakim that Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) said: “That nation is not led astray after the guidance has been brought to them, except when they are given to arguments.”
Hence no good abodes for that nation that indulges in arguments and debates. Another point is that by having too many discussions and debates, generally, people‟s enthusiasm to understand is plagued, and they are more desirous of having their views and opinions accepted. Also, that person who is not very well learned in the Shariah, tends to get carried away and does not pay heed and give due consideration to the limits of the Shariah. At times it may happen that a thing may be false and incorrect (in terms of the Shariah) and this person will endeavour to prove it to be true and Haqq. At times in such discussions a person may slur and revile an accepted servant of Allah Ta`ala‟s, hence blackening his Book of Deeds. A combination of all these factors, not only deprives one of the virtue of good actions, in fact, one‟s mental ability and tendency to accept the Haqq decreases gradually.
Therefore, it is my humble and sincere advice to all of you that each one of you follow and place your trust on that Aalim, whom you envisage and consider as being on Haqq, whom you deem is an Aalim-e-Muhaqqiq, and who is conveying the Message of Allaah Ta`ala and the Sunnah of Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) to the people for the Pleasure of Allaah Ta`ala. Practice according to this person‟s advice and teachings and continue with your daily routine. Instead of all this vain discussions and debates, you should all rather spend your time more constructively and engage in Thikr, Tilaawat, Durood Shareef or some other beneficial Deeni work
I love your wishy washy, sweep it under the carpet answer.
Let's dissect what you said & formulate some questions for you?
1. The Majlis categorically say that they only accept rulings of Imam Abu Hanifa Rahmatullahi Alayh & his students & no other Muftis after that, no matter their seniority is binding on them. It is on this basis they reject Masturat Jamat fatwa despite the Ulama in question permitting it are mujtahids of their time & no doubt of a greater calibre than The Majlis, yet when it suits the Majlis they want to rely on Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi's fatwa for which they didn't provide a reference?
2. What specifically is illogical about my conclusions?
3. I assume you know the rules of Ifta right? Enlighten us.
4. You made an assumption about my niyyat which you claim is to prove my intellect. May Allah Ta'ala forgive you for your sin.
5. You might emotionally call it objections. I might call it valid concerns.
Even though its a rhetorical question. No I do not think that Maulana wrote it due to his ego.
As for Maulana A.S. Desai saheb. As per the above advice people should do 2 things:
1. People who do not agree, leave the refutations to the ulema. (I personally do not agree with many of his opinions)
2. People who follow him, do not act as if those who do not follow his opinion as deviant.
If laymen had the ability to discuss such fatwas only considering the academics setting aside ones ego and enemity, then it would have been a wonderful thread as I see Maulana Yasin saheb was contributing. In sunniforum also there were rarely some good threads, where the ulema took time to discuss. But we laymen also have keep our akhlaq and an open mind for the discussion to be fruitful.
Instead here, wheneven Maulana A.S. Desai sahebs fatwas are mentioned, Some go to the extremes of ridiculing him and other act as if Maulana is the only person on Haqq. Pathetic indeed. Is it so hard to do that. I m also guilty of unnecessarily provoking arguments. I still remember Arsalan (a.s. of sf) and I had an argument in sf. I unnecessarily taunted him when he asked a doubt of Imam Malik and it became an argument. That was because of my ego. But later I remember he had the courtesy to apologize even though I taunted him first. Now alhamdulillah we get along well.
The sad part is that, all posters of this thread are Sunnis. Also we all follow Hanafi Madhab and are mostly Deobandis (except for me, I am shafi'i) and we argue like we are arguing with the Ghair Muqallids or something. Remember we are One Ummah, One Army, the followers of Prophet Muhammad .
Sorry about the Rant, I hate it when the 2 people on Haqq argue with each other.
despite the Ulama in question permitting it are mujtahids of their time & no doubt of a greater calibre than The Majlis
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I told you to familiarise yourself in basic knowledge of deen first. I have explained the matter you are raising again. Claiming ulama to be mujtahids in itself shows the superficiality of the substqnce of your objections. I suppose you dont know that there were no mujtahids after the mujtahids of the golden era? The doors of ijtihaad are closed. Muftis are naqils not mujtahids.
2&3 - as explained above and I have tried to enlighten you. Please read my previous comments. Do a little research yourself too. The superficial illogical conclusions you are drawing are devoid of substance for example claiming "& no doubt of a greater calibre than the majlis". Can you prove your claim without doubt with constructive academic examples.?
4 - assumption based on siyaq o sabaq (context). You ignore to read my post explaining the matter, you have no knowledge about the matter yet you choose to object without knowledge. The tone should be that of asking not objecting.
5 - I havent called it objections by using my emotions. It would have been valid concerns if you had some knowledge to backup your concerns. Refering to ulama of the past century as mujtahids shows the substance of your valif concerns. Do you accept that there are no mujtahids after the great mujtahids?
Sweep it under the carpet? I have explained the matter in detail in a previous post and I ask you to read that for your answer. You call that sweep it under the carper? And then you say im making assumptions!
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
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's Akhlaaq?
